Learning From The Master - Tim Pierce's HXDA Demo

[László]

When last we left off in this serial thriller about my lovely and wonderful HXDA 30, I had changed out the preamp tubes (replacing the V1 with a NOS Mullard 12 AX7 that let's face it was expensive but worth it, and the other two 12AX7s with some JJ gold pin ECC83s' chosen for low noise and microphonics -- these for the simple reason that one of the two original tubes was becoming a little noisy and I just said the hell with it and swapped both out for new ones). But I didn't really mess with the settings on the amp. I left them pretty much where they'd been.

Last night I happened to watch one of the great session player Tim Pierce's videos, and got started on YouTube watching more, and then re-viddied his HXDA demo. The first time I saw this demo, I was just listening on my computer. Last night, I watched and listened on my studio system. Well, yeah, that sure made a difference! If you watch this, listen on good speakers or good cans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH1nyL5PGzE

Dang if he didn't get a stellar sound. And since he went through his settings and fiddled with them to demo the amp, I decided to reproduce what he did. He sets his up with much higher gain than I do, especially on the bass gain setting. He also sets his tone controls higher, and of course dimes the master. So did I.

Well...it may not be my exact taste in settings for my style of play, but it sounded suh-weet! Playing today with the McCarty Singlecut (aka, the Hammer of the Gods), I was Les Zeppelin. Or is that Led Schefman? In either case, I was not me. I was someone else entirely. And I was loud. I'm not usually quite that LOUD.

So I learned new things about my amp, or maybe re-learned things I hadn't thought about in a while. It's always so good to be challenged and inspired to try something a little different! :top:

Also pretty cool to have a session master, who's played on hundreds if not thousands of big time hits, show you how it's supposed to be done!

 

[WeFixFlats]

We'd seen this one before because I checked and had commented on it about 3 months ago.

"That narcotic kinda sag and squish", well put and exactly describes, to me, the feeling and sound we get using this World Class Amp.

1st Rule of the HXDA Club: Dime the Master

 

[g.wizz]

Dang Les Zeppelin
what a juicy tone indeed

 

[László]

Dang Les Zeppelin
what a juicy tone indeed

Yeah I was that guy. What fun!

 

[László]

We'd seen this one before because I checked and had commented on it about 3 months ago.

"That narcotic kinda sag and squish", well put and exactly describes, to me, the feeling and sound we get using this World Class Amp.

1st Rule of the HXDA Club: Dime the Master

I usually run the Master around 2-3 o' clock anyway but I really ran it wide open, lots of fun!

 

[CatStrangler]

I usually run the Master around 2-3 o' clock anyway but I really ran it wide open, lots of fun!

Thanks Les, I was inspired to tun my 30W HXDA today a little more wide open than usual ( I live in a multi family unit in the city) and turned up the bass gain too. Like you I usually keep that one down. I got some great grit and warmth and am discovering new things about this amp (again),

 

[László]

Thanks Les, I was inspired to tun my 30W HXDA today a little more wide open than usual ( I live in a multi family unit in the city) and turned up the bass gain too. Like you I usually keep that one down. I got some great grit and warmth and am discovering new things about this amp (again),

They're just such cool amps, sometimes they need to be unleashed. Fun for us!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

You guys are killing me with all this HX/DA love, but does this amp have to be that loud to sound great? My wife is pretty understanding, but I can't just blast away.

 

[László]

You guys are killing me with all this HX/DA love, but does this amp have to be that loud to sound great? My wife is pretty understanding, but I can't just blast away.

These are amps that simply have to work first and foremost for performers on stages. They're designed to sound their best at stage volumes, or at least club volumes. If they didn't cut through a band mix, bands like The Allmans and other endorsers couldn't use them. There's an inherent disconnect between an amp designed to sound its best at stage volumes, and an amp designed to work for bedroom players.

This is why so many companies have come out with low-power lunchbox amps, that are so popular. But let's face it, Fender (and others) made very low-wattage so-called "practice amps" back in the fifties. There's always been a need for an amp a player can practice with, as opposed to perform with.

However, the amp sounds very, very good at what I'd call relatively low volume using the master.

It sounds even better with the master set to allow the power tubes to work, because that lets the amp do what it's designed to do, namely, cut through with a drummer, bass player, keys, etc. You can reduce the preamp gain accordingly. The 30W really comes alive with the master volume at least at 12 o'clock, and begins to sound fabulous around 2-3 o'clock. The 50W comes alive with the master set a little lower, but of course, it's just as loud with the master set lower because it's a more powerful amp.

But what's loud? It's a relative thing. Most folks listen to a stereo system at 80-85 db, if it's not on in the background. You might think 90 db is too loud. I might think 110 db is loud.

It's certainly less loud with the 30W version, though not by all that much - cutting the power in half only reduces the volume of an amp by 3 db.

It's less loud with a 1x12 instead of a 2x12, 4x12 or 4x10.

My own very strong feeling is that it's best to buy an amp to do what it's designed to do. In the studio, when recording, I set up my amps to sound their best, and that's pretty loud. I use gobos to absorb some of the volume, and to isolate amps and players, just like every other studio does. Gobos do help. So that's something you might consider for your music room if you want to use amps designed for stage volumes at home.

But if my deal was simply practicing or bedroom playing, I'd stick with lower-wattage amps, because that's what they're designed for. There is a plethora of 5 watt amps on the market that are designed for the bedroom player and home recordist. I bought my son a 5W Epiphone Valve Junior when he was in high school because he wanted it to practice with (by then I'd given him my 100 Watt Mesa Tremoverb to gig with), and it sounded good enough to record with for certain tones! He had a ball with it.

My bottom line: horses for courses. You want a powerful pro stage amp, it's going to be loud to sound its best. There isn't a realistic way around that. Even amps with very good master volumes are going to sound better with the power tubes involved in the game.

Then too, there are amps like some of the Mesas, that can be switched down to 10 watts. So that's something to consider. I had a Mark V that sounded pretty good at 10 watts on the clean channel. Not so much on the gain channels, but again, that's the tradeoff.

 

[Tahlee]

I must say, LSchefman, that I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts.

 

[toothace]

Agreed...great post Les!

 

[László]

Gee guys, thanks! I'm just amazed that people read the posts!

 

[Boogie]

These are amps ... designed to sound their best at stage volumes, or at least club volumes. If they didn't cut through a band mix, bands like The Allmans and other endorsers couldn't use them. There's an inherent disconnect between an amp designed to sound its best at stage volumes, and an amp designed to work for bedroom players.

At the risk of sounding "anti-bedroom" (ok, that didn't sound right), your statement is completely in line with my experience, Les. Sometimes it's because of the character change of the amp at that volume, but it's always due to what the amp does to the speakers. Rolling in that bass gain doesn't just increase the low end, it increases the devastating abuse on the speakers, yielding that special sauce. For me, it's all about that speaker-spanking growl and you can't get it at low volume. The price is SPL...period.

To to get that amazing British amp thing at low volumes, there are numerous solutions, but to get the real thing, you have to turn the volume up. For quiet applications, turn to those power scaling models like the Archon and Custom. But if you can turn it up, there is simply no substitute for the real deal. The entire range of PRS British-inspired amps (25th Anni, HX/DA, Super Dallas) are inspiring, but meant to be loud.

 

[Texas_minor_blues]

Always enjoy seeing Tim work, love his playing
and DAMN that tone....

 

[Texas_minor_blues]

These are amps that simply have to work first and foremost for performers on stages. They're designed to sound their best at stage volumes, or at least club volumes. If they didn't cut through a band mix, bands like The Allmans and other endorsers couldn't use them. There's an inherent disconnect between an amp designed to sound its best at stage volumes, and an amp designed to work for bedroom players.

This is why so many companies have come out with low-power lunchbox amps, that are so popular. But let's face it, Fender (and others) made very low-wattage so-called "practice amps" back in the fifties. There's always been a need for an amp a player can practice with, as opposed to perform with.

However, the amp sounds very, very good at what I'd call relatively low volume using the master.

It sounds even better with the master set to allow the power tubes to work, because that lets the amp do what it's designed to do, namely, cut through with a drummer, bass player, keys, etc. You can reduce the preamp gain accordingly. The 30W really comes alive with the master volume at least at 12 o'clock, and begins to sound fabulous around 2-3 o'clock. The 50W comes alive with the master set a little lower, but of course, it's just as loud with the master set lower because it's a more powerful amp.

But what's loud? It's a relative thing. Most folks listen to a stereo system at 80-85 db, if it's not on in the background. You might think 90 db is too loud. I might think 110 db is loud.

It's certainly less loud with the 30W version, though not by all that much - cutting the power in half only reduces the volume of an amp by 3 db.

It's less loud with a 1x12 instead of a 2x12, 4x12 or 4x10.

My own very strong feeling is that it's best to buy an amp to do what it's designed to do. In the studio, when recording, I set up my amps to sound their best, and that's pretty loud. I use gobos to absorb some of the volume, and to isolate amps and players, just like every other studio does. Gobos do help. So that's something you might consider for your music room if you want to use amps designed for stage volumes at home.

But if my deal was simply practicing or bedroom playing, I'd stick with lower-wattage amps, because that's what they're designed for. There is a plethora of 5 watt amps on the market that are designed for the bedroom player and home recordist. I bought my son a 5W Epiphone Valve Junior when he was in high school because he wanted it to practice with (by then I'd given him my 100 Watt Mesa Tremoverb to gig with), and it sounded good enough to record with for certain tones! He had a ball with it.

My bottom line: horses for courses. You want a powerful pro stage amp, it's going to be loud to sound its best. There isn't a realistic way around that. Even amps with very good master volumes are going to sound better with the power tubes involved in the game.

Then too, there are amps like some of the Mesas, that can be switched down to 10 watts. So that's something to consider. I had a Mark V that sounded pretty good at 10 watts on the clean channel. Not so much on the gain channels, but again, that's the tradeoff.

excellent point....with that said I have no qualms about blowing out my neighbors with a 90 watt Bogner Shiva some days LOL
Les what are your thoughts on attenuators?

 

[László]

Les what are your thoughts on attenuators?

While they change the tone of the amp somewhat, I think they're a viable solution for players who need a louder stage-volume amp, and also have difficulty practicing at home with the amp due to volume issues.

The Fryette one that Cory uses looks really interesting, though it's expensive enough that I'd personally rather put the $$ toward one of the high quality low-wattage amps on the market.

I noticed on the Product website that some of the lower power PRS amps are switchable down to 13 watts or so! So those would be a good choice, too.

Honestly, my HXDA30 sounds fine at low volumes, no doubt better than it would with an attenuator, but I just can't resist the urge to crank it up.

 

[László]

At the risk of sounding "anti-bedroom" (ok, that didn't sound right), your statement is completely in line with my experience, Les. Sometimes it's because of the character change of the amp at that volume, but it's always due to what the amp does to the speakers. Rolling in that bass gain doesn't just increase the low end, it increases the devastating abuse on the speakers, yielding that special sauce. For me, it's all about that speaker-spanking growl and you can't get it at low volume. The price is SPL...period.

To to get that amazing British amp thing at low volumes, there are numerous solutions, but to get the real thing, you have to turn the volume up. For quiet applications, turn to those power scaling models like the Archon and Custom. But if you can turn it up, there is simply no substitute for the real deal. The entire range of PRS British-inspired amps (25th Anni, HX/DA, Super Dallas) are inspiring, but meant to be loud.

Huge point re: speaker distortion. That's so much of what we hear from a big amp.

Every time I think about the topic of the speakers being so important, I'm convinced that I should order one of those Rivera Silent Sisters. And then something else comes up that needs the attention of my wallet, and I forget to do it when I'm flush! LOL

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. And, I get all that. As Boogie addressed, there are some amps that sound good at pretty much all volumes. And some that must be cranked. I've read similar comments about many of the great sounding Dr. Z amps... "doesn't sound GREAT until it's cranked" type comments. So Boogie addressed what I was asking. Is this one of those amps that has to be loud to sound really good. Remember, I have a Custom 50 in there now. It's not like I play at 80dB. But, if an amp has to be really loud to sound great, I can't really use it.

Regarding the amps (Like some of the Mesa amps) with multiple wattage switches... The lower wattage settings on many of these amps (I have yet to see the actual differences on the PRS amps when in half power mode) are not just for lower volume playing. They are a different kind of power stage setup. For example, when playing a Mesa Mark V with a 4x12 cab, the best sounds I got on Channel 3 (all the really high gain voices) were all on the 90 watt setting. Even at lower volumes than I play at home. Why? Simple... the wattage choices are all different forms of power stages. One reason I love my little TA15 so much is that the 5/15/25 watt switch provides 3 different kinds of amp with each chosen voice. So, I might be playing at lower volume with the 25 watt mode, or at near 100dB with the 5 watt mode. 5 watts= single ended Class A. 15= two power tube class A and 25= class A/B. All three modes have a significantly different feel and response. The 5/15/25 watt switch on that amp is used for the feel/response and tone I want way more than it's used for volume. And it's the same with my Mark V25, and it was the same with the full sized Mark V. You want tight punchy high gain tones, even at bedroom volumes, use the highest power mode with the master down, not the low power mode. You want sweeter smoother looser tones, use the lower power modes, even at louder volumes.

Anyway, that was way to long. (Sorry) It sounds like while I've always wanted this type of amp, I wouldn't be able to really use it as even when I play live, I don't play loud. Guess I should look at an Archon next.

 

[László]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. And, I get all that. As Boogie addressed, there are some amps that sound good at pretty much all volumes. And some that must be cranked. I've read similar comments about many of the great sounding Dr. Z amps... "doesn't sound GREAT until it's cranked" type comments. So Boogie addressed what I was asking. Is this one of those amps that has to be loud to sound really good. Remember, I have a Custom 50 in there now. It's not like I play at 80dB. But, if an amp has to be really loud to sound great, I can't really use it.

Regarding the amps (Like some of the Mesa amps) with multiple wattage switches... The lower wattage settings on many of these amps (I have yet to see the actual differences on the PRS amps when in half power mode) are not just for lower volume playing. They are a different kind of power stage setup. For example, when playing a Mesa Mark V with a 4x12 cab, the best sounds I got on Channel 3 (all the really high gain voices) were all on the 90 watt setting. Even at lower volumes than I play at home. Why? Simple... the wattage choices are all different forms of power stages. One reason I love my little TA15 so much is that the 5/15/25 watt switch provides 3 different kinds of amp with each chosen voice. So, I might be playing at lower volume with the 25 watt mode, or at near 100dB with the 5 watt mode. 5 watts= single ended Class A. 15= two power tube class A and 25= class A/B. All three modes have a significantly different feel and response. The 5/15/25 watt switch on that amp is used for the feel/response and tone I want way more than it's used for volume. And it's the same with my Mark V25, and it was the same with the full sized Mark V. You want tight punchy high gain tones, even at bedroom volumes, use the highest power mode with the master down, not the low power mode. You want sweeter smoother looser tones, use the lower power modes, even at louder volumes.

Anyway, that was way to long. (Sorry) It sounds like while I've always wanted this type of amp, I wouldn't be able to really use it as even when I play live, I don't play loud. Guess I should look at an Archon next.

Well, if the Custom 50 is working for you, the HXDA will, too. It doesn't need to be maxed to sound very fine indeed. However, it does give up extra goods when the master is dimed. I would point out, however, that the gain can be rolled back quite a bit when the master is dimed, too, and then the amp works just like an old Plexi.

So it doesn't need to be ear splitting loud to sound quite superb. And that is especially true of the 30W version.

 

[László]

On another front, I just watched Tim Pierce's latest teaching video tonight, and behind him sat an all-black, no wood faceplate, amp with a "DG Custom" plaque on the font lower grille.

Obviously, in addition to the HXDAs, he's got a Grissom amp, but is it the DG30 or DG50? Of course, a guy of that stature can order the amp in stealth tolex or anything he wants, no doubt! I like the look of an all black tolex PRS amp, too.

I've got big love for my DG30, just as I do for the HXDA. It's a wonderful amp, and the more I play it, the more I dig it. I still have yet to play a DG50, and am so curious about how they differ from the 30 -- it's not just the same thing with more power. F'rinstance, I know that the topology of the master volume is different, and there are other differences as well.

Yeah, so now I need an HXDA 100 and a DG 50. It really is endless, this GAS...

And one more question for the assembled masses -- surrounded so closely by all those amps and their transformers, etc., how the heck does Tim keep his single coils from buzzing and humming? I mean, walk your guitar (with the guitar volume up) that close to any amp, and you're going to pick up some noise.

I know for sure he uses a volume pedal to shut down the guitar between phrases, etc, because he's demoed that, but you'd think the pickups would still buzz and hum when he opens the volume pedal back up. Maybe any buzzing or humming is masked by the sound of the guitar?