Just curious this forum's opinion of tone wood on electrics.

[László]

It will have to be extremely controlled experiment. We'd obviously have to agree on the rules, but basically, we'd take as much of the player out of the formula as possible. My thought is we use an automated motor to strum the string at the fixed distance to the strings as well as the fixed distance from the bridge. We could A/B no less than 100 times switching A and B at random. Goal would be to distinguish which wood is which. If your success rate is 90% or higher, I buy you a core model. If you fail, you buy me a core guitar. Video will be completely public so we can squash this for good.

The most important thing about different tone woods isn't how they sound when a machine plucks them. It's how they respond to nuance in the hands of a player. That's where the differences shine.

What you propose has no musical context, and therefore, no musically significant application.

I'll think of something different.

In addition, a 90% success rate is so unreasonably above statistical significance that I wouldn't consider it. That's a setup, not a fair wager.

Finally, no one's buying anyone a guitar, not you, not I. We'll think of something in the realm of sensibility. A good bottle of whisky or the equivalent seems more like it.

 

[Prs Mods too]

Not even sure why this thread is still going. For arguments sake I suppose.

I already gave the answer in post #45.

 

[opnoob]

The most important thing about different tone woods isn't how they sound when a machine plucks them. It's how they respond to nuance in the hands of a player. That's where the differences shine.

What you propose has no musical context, and therefore, no musically significant application.

I'll think of something different.

In addition, a 90% success rate is so unreasonably above statistical significance that I wouldn't consider it. That's a setup, not a fair wager.

Finally, no one's buying anyone a guitar, not you, not I. We'll think of something in the realm of sensibility.

Then what are we even talking about here? What you're saying is nonsense. The wood makes you play differently so its not really 'tone'wood is it? See your comment below. Here you are making a scientific claim that the physical properties of the wood will have an OBJECTIVE difference in the tone based on the vibrations and thus the influence on the oscillation of the string. Now you are backpedalling and saying well no its not about the science, its about the player and how it changes your playing style. Are we just going to ignore the dozens of comments about "knocking" the wood and hearing different resonant tones? Now it just comes down to "oh this particular wood makes me strum a little harder?" We need to take the player out of the equation if we're ever going to make definitive claims about whether or not tonewood exists, and if it exists, to what extent the physical properties of wood affect the tone. If you attack the string a different way just because a particular wood makes you "want" to do that, you will perpetually avoid any scrutiny to your claims without actually being able to prove them. Also, you are the one that claimed to have a 90% success rate on something much more mundane ie. the type of cable used. So a 90% success rate on a much bigger characteristic, one that people are willing to pay 300%, 400% even 1000% more for should have a much more pronounced effect and thus easier to discern, no? I am 100% willing to buy you a guitar if you are right. So long as you also take on the same risk. Because I already know the outcome. I've done similar, less rigorous tests (which favor the opposite person), tests with people who claim the same. Real musicians that I respect for the ear and their musical ability. So have many, many other people. Many of them quite well documented.

If you want to revise your claim to "tonewood make you feel and play differently", I will get off my hill. If you want to stick to your original claim that wood affects the objective tone of a guitar, pony up and back it up.

The string isn't suspended from parts that don't vibrate. The guitar and its parts vibrate. You can feel the vibration in the neck with your hand when you play the guitar unplugged or plugged.

This vibration of the wood is transmitted to the hardware and other parts that touch the string. And every wooden guitar vibrates a little differently.

These vibrations modulate the string's oscillation. Since the pickups are "hearing" the oscillation of the string, we also hear the modulation caused by the vibrating materials the guitar is made of as part pf the signal that's reproduced.

 

[SinSir]

. If you fail, you buy me a core guitar. Video will be completely public so we can squash this for good.

If I'm serious about proving my point on a bet, odds are customary. Since your se sounds better than your core, feels better than your PS, and woods don't matter? Put up a core to an se. Now thats a wager you'd get some action on..

For clarification for those that dont gamble.. put up as in wager, a core as a bet to a se in return..not the test. (See post #127)

 

[Prs Mods too]

We need to take the player out of the equation if we're ever going to make definitive claims about whether or not tonewood exists, and if it exists, to what extent the physical properties of wood affect the tone.

This is probably the ONLY thing you've said in this thread that I actually agree with.

If you want to stick to your original claim that wood affects the objective tone of a guitar, pony up and back it up.

LOL

 

[opnoob]

If I'm serious about proving my point on a bet, odds are customary. Since your se sounds better than your core, feels better than your PS, and woods don't matter? Put up a core to an se. Now thats a wager you'd get some action on..

And what would that prove? You'd be testing two completely different guitars. Even a deaf person could tell the difference between two different guitars. What we're trying to prove here is whether or not, all other factors constant, if wood affects the tone of a guitar. You need to compare apples to apples. Yeah honestly, my SE SAS probably does sound better to my ear than my core Cu24 with 85/15s. I also would say I would prefer the 57/08s in my other core model even more than both. And yes, my PS is NOT my favorite feeling guitar. Just because I paid an enormous amount for it, doesn't mean it has to feel better, some necks just feel better in my hands regardless of price. People just can't get over that sometimes paying more something doesn't always mean its gonna be the perfect player for you. And I'm FINE with that! I will never regret buying any guitar, variety is the spice of life. And something I don't prefer one day, can change sometime in the future. Happens all the time.

 

[SinSir]

And what would that prove? You'd be testing two completely different guitars.

Put up a core as a bet vs a se in return. Not the test.

 

[opnoob]

This is probably the ONLY thing you've said in this thread that I actually agree with.



LOL

Baby steps, brother. I never kiss on the first date.

 

[Jcub]

For what it is worth, players and performers were unable to distinguish old (priceless) and new, modern violins in three peer-reviewed, double blind studies published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. I would post a link but as a new member, I am unable to do so (a Google search will bring up the studies quickly).

It would be interesting to see a similar study performed to evaluate perceived differences between instruments made of different wood types.

 

[opnoob]

Put up a core as a bet vs a se in return. Not the test.

Why on God's green earth would I do that. Why are you assuming the odds are in my favour? Clearly, tonewoods are an incredibly big deal, and are easily discernable. If anything, I should be the betting underdog. Have you seen the lengths people go to to get their favorite tonewood? How much people pay?

 

[opnoob]

For what it is worth, players and performers were unable to distinguish old (priceless) and new, modern violins in three peer-reviewed, double blind studies published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. I would post a link but as a new member, I am unable to do so (a Google search will bring up the studies quickly).

It would be interesting to see a similar study performed to evaluate perceived differences between instruments made of different wood types.

We don't take kindly to this kind of talk here, friend. LOL.

 

[SinSir]

People just can't get over that sometimes paying more something doesn't always mean its gonna be the perfect player for you.

Don't count me as one of those people that thinks just because it's more expensive it's better, but I'm also not one to think that tiers of products don't matter.

I went in to CME one day to play my on paper dream guitar, fully expecting to trade several guitars and probably cash for it.. only to leave wanting an entirely different and less expensive guitar. It was an awesome guitar, but not for me. The less expensive one on the otherhand spoke to me. I still didn't leave thinking an entry level guitar was as good or better than either one.

 

[opnoob]

Don't count me as one of those people that thinks just because it's more expensive it's better, but I'm also not one to think that tiers of products don't matter.

I went in to CME one day to play my on paper dream guitar, fully expecting to trade several guitars and probably cash for it.. only to leave wanting an entirely different and less expensive guitar. It was an awesome guitar, but not for me. The less expensive one on the otherhand spoke to me. I still didn't leave thinking an entry level guitar was as good or better than either one.

I share the same sentiments. Just because a neck on an SE feels better than to me than my PS, I would never claim that the SE is a "better" guitar. It simply has a better feeling neck.

 

[SinSir]

Why on God's green earth would I do that.

Because you're the one soliciting wagers.. Why would someone want to take an even Steven bet for something they already know? Zero incentive for your experiment.

 

[Prs Mods too]

For what it is worth, players and performers were unable to distinguish old (priceless) and new, modern violins in three peer-reviewed, double blind studies published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. I would post a link but as a new member, I am unable to do so (a Google search will bring up the studies quickly).

It would be interesting to see a similar study performed to evaluate perceived differences between instruments made of different wood types.

Hello @opnoob alt. LOL

 

[SinSir]

Hello @opnoob alt. LOL

Join a PRS forum and this is the thread to pick for a first post about Violins

 

[opnoob]

Because you're the one soliciting wagers.. Why would someone want to take an even Steven bet for something they already know? Zero incentive for your experiment.

So illogical, they would take the bet because they already know, as you say. Zero incentive? I'm literally putting up 4 grand you donut.

 

[opnoob]

Join a PRS forum and this is the thread to pick for a first post about Violins

Nope not me, but you believe in tonewood on electric guitars so, can't say I'm surprised thats what you believe.

 

[Prs Mods too]

Nope not me, but you believe in tonewood on electric guitars

Evidence in post 45.

You're making life much more difficult than it is, denialist.

 

[opnoob]

Evidence in post 45.

You're making life much more difficult than it is, denialist.

Yes, because your robotically accurate, completely unbiased, personal assessment on how something feels and sounds is irrefutable, solid data to which we can confidently conclude all tonewood debates that have ever existed. Thank you for this outstanding service.