How different does the Custom 24 sound vs the McCarty 594?

[László]

I was thinking the same, the cu24 and 594 are likely the far ends of prs humbucker spectrum. McCarty and cu22 being more middle ground (among others).
The 85/15 will drive an amp differently to the LT’s too.
The answer ? Get both

I like the way you put that. I sure agree, at least when it comes to the solid body traditional (non-408) buckers.

Part of my PRS addiction has been for 408s ever since the Sig Ltd. For whatever reason, the 408 models seem to live in a different universe, one that I really like!

I’ve talked about the PS20 Ltd. endlessly, so I won’t go into detail now, but when considering PRS models, the 408 and Paul’s Guitar are really worth exploring. They’re different, in a good way, and aren’t trying to be throwbacks to anything else (not that throwbacks are a bad thing; I love my 594s and McCarty Singlecut). However, they take the electric guitar into different worlds of expression that are at the same time PRS sounding, if that makes sense.

If I could have only one guitar, chances are it’d be the one with 408s.

 

[Mozzi]

I like the way you put that. I sure agree, at least when it comes to the solid body traditional (non-408) buckers.

Part of my PRS addiction has been for 408s ever since the Sig Ltd. For whatever reason, the 408 models seem to live in a different universe, one that I really like!

I’ve talked about the PS20 Ltd. endlessly, so I won’t go into detail now, but when considering PRS models, the 408 and Paul’s Guitar are really worth exploring. They’re different, in a good way, and aren’t trying to be throwbacks to anything else (not that throwbacks are a bad thing; I love my 594s and McCarty Singlecut). However, they take the electric guitar into different worlds of expression that are at the same time PRS sounding, if that makes sense.

If I could have only one guitar, chances are it’d be the one with 408s.

I am, as you have probably read, in total agreement that, starting with the Custom 24, PRS guitars have a range that takes steps back in time towards the Vintage Les Paul. The Custom 24 and Custom 22 are more modern classics with the Mcarty's being more vintage classic. Whether coincidence or not, the current Double Humbucker regular models go from the Custom 24 ->- Custom 22 ->- McCarty ->- McCarty 594 as you step back from the modern and most PRS guitars towards the most 'Les Paul' model PRS offer

There are more models in the Core range - the speciality models - 408 and 509, the Hollowbodies and the Signature series - DGT, Tremonti, Santana and Paul's that are separate from the above. Obviously the Signature series are their own thing because that's what the artist wants and needs and the hollowbodies are self explanatory. The outliers though are the speciality models - perhaps why they are classed this way by PRS too. Paul's actually gets classed in both the Speciality and Signature series. They have some 'common' ground with LP's but they are all better to consider as something 'different'. These Guitars are guitars you buy because they offer everything you want from that guitar because you can't easily change what they offer. If you buy any of the the other guitars, you can swap out a Pick-up to suit but its not so easy - if its possible at all to modify if you don't quite like the sound.

If I had to choose just 1 PRS, I would seriously struggle because I bought all because they are different. I think my Special may well be the most difficult to find an alternative brand guitar to give me what this offers me where as I think I could get close with other models and, in the case of the 509, I may need more than 1 guitar to cover the ground that this fits.

I didn't really consider the Speciality models for the OP but actually, any one of them could be an option. Another option of course could be a 594 Soapbar but that would come with the same neck which the OP is still getting used to but would be something different. Both the 408 and Paul's could be the sound and feel they want or the 509 could be a good option for gigging but I don't think the OP would consider this anyway. Paul's may be the better option of the specialities...

 

[Revelation]

The McCarty 594 DC is really starting to grow on me. Compared to my Les Paul Custom, is has a more modern look, and I like the tuners better. However if I found when I back off my bass tone knob on my amp by 3 I can get the Les Paul to sound 90% the same. Then if I use med picks on the Les Paul and thicker Blue turtle picks on the 594, they sound even closer.

I love the sound of the 594, it's provides more of the sound I prefer and I love just looking at the guitar. But I am wondering perhaps I will like the Custom 22 better as it has more of the classic PRS sound? However if I ever want a single coil sound, I cant imagine picking the PRS over a real Strat. The handy part comes if your playing live and you want to switch sounds, but usually that also means changing your settings on your amp to dial in the sound you want with the single coil when you switch back and forth. As I already have multiple electric guitars, I will be most likely only buy one PRS. I find the more guitars you have, the less you play each one, so I don't want to get in a situation where I only pull out a certain guitar every once in a while when you paid that much for it. Just sharing what's going all in my head as I try to sort this all out.

 

[Andy80]

Trying to figure out what is the best PRS for me. I'm more of a Clapton, Stevie Ray, Jeff Beck, Larry Carlton player.

I already have a LP Custom, Fender Strat, Tele and Carvin 575.

The Double cut 594 or Custom 22 appear to be my best options

Take a hard look at the DGT.

 

[Mozzi]

@Revelation The Custom 22 is a different beast to the 594. I cannot tell you which you would prefer and the ONLY one who can is yourself. The Custom 22 is a bit more Les Paul like than the Custom 24 but that's because of the Pick-up positions so the neck PU sounds a bit closer. Its thinner (like a Custom 24) and, if you are buying new comes with a trem bridge too. Its a 25" scale length as well and comes with a 5 way blade to give some different sounds than a Les Paul offers - either both split humbuckers together or the neck split with the bridge humbucker. You can kind of get that from a 594 using the tone pot push/pull whilst in the middle position.

As I have said, the best PRS 'strat' is the Silver Sky for the Single Coil tones but you are adamant that you have that covered. In my opinion, the majority (of not all) the Split coil options from PRS isn't to be a Strat or a Tele but to offer the musician more tonal choices and/or tones that will cut through a mix better because the split coil tones are not competing with Bass, drums or even a second guitarist. Its not just about having 3 or more guitars in one but more about giving the musician more options to be creative with, to fit in a mix etc.

If you have a double humbucker LP type, a 3 single coil strat type, a tele type and the hollowbody 335 type then you basically have everything you need to be a cover band musician. PRS may have models that are of the highest quality and quite a few models that are quintessentially PRS. Some may cover the same ground you believe you have covered so unless you are willing to double up or have something that can offer more options but still has a few that you already feel you have, then perhaps you won't find something.

You already have a Les Paul so why look at the Custom 22? It could replace your LP and offer a couple more tonal options as well as Trem bridge. Perhaps less risk of headstock breakage and better tuning stability too but you may find its not different enough or being more modern, doesn't sound quite like the LP you have become accustomed too. Its still a 22 fret double humbucker type guitar that covers some of the ground your LP does. You may not like the split coil combinations because you have a strat for that.

Just owning a PRS for the sake of owning one and not wanting something you already think you have covered is not going to be easy as there are areas that all PRS guitars offer that other guitars can 'sit' - even if the nuances of the guitars are different. On the one hand, you have mentioned the type of guitar (at least the sounds associated with certain Artists) but dismissed the guitars that are the best fit. You dismiss any split coil tones because you have a strat and you might as well dismiss all humbucker tones because you have a LP. Guitars like the Cu22, McCarty and 594 are alternatives to a LP in a lot of ways although a lot of us will like the nuances each offers and may even own a LP too but if you are limited to the number of guitars you feel you can own, unless you are prepared to double up, to trade for something that can replace what you have and maybe do more, then you may find that the 4 guitars you own already give you what a lot of PRS guitars offer. Its likely to come down to whether you prefer the guitars you have and their role in your toolbox or whether you prefer the PRS guitars and any extra ground they may offer.

My collection of guitars, maybe swap the 509 or maybe either the 594 or Special 22 (which is an expanded Custom 22) for a Silver Sky, and would probably cover your entire guitar collection and the songs you play. All that's missing is a typical strat sound. There are P90's or Filtertron sounds I am missing too but could make do. There are so many guitars that, whilst very different can be very alike too. The Custom 22, McCarty and 594 can all be a Les Paul alternative but also be something different too depending on the nuances, the extra options/features, the era you are comparing it to - let alone the feel, the weight etc. Every one of these could be used as an alternative to a Les Paul but also be different enough to justify purchasing along side a LP too.

The point I am trying to make is that maybe no PRS guitar is likely to be the 'one' for you because you feel like you have the area covered by guitar(s) in your collection. Certainly the guitars I would recommend based on the artists you mentioned, the ones I think are best suited, you already feel you own which may make searching for a PRS difficult because they don't fit in with what you like or do fit in but you already have that covered by a different brand.

 

[László]

Mozzi mentioned the 594 Soapbar model, and that’s one of the 594s I have, too. If you like the 594, but feel that your LP does that, the Soapbar takes the 594 to a different, and even more vintage, place. I should’ve mentioned this option, because it’s a darn good one, and you have nothing like it. I should mention that I’ve had a 1965 SG Special with the original P-90s since ‘67, and I’m pretty familiar with what a true vintage P-90 does.

If you’re curious about the difference, I wrote and recorded this little demo of the Soapy 594 vs the humbucker version. The rhythm guitar is the Soapy, the first melody lead part is the Soapy as well, and the second lead melody that comes in halfway through is the 594 humbucker. The amp was the PRS DG30 (the David Grissom amp). Here’s a link:

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/messy-2-guitars-mstr

Here’s a pic of my 594 Soapbar; they were a limited run, but you might be able to locate one:

 

[markd21]

@Revelation I have a DC594 and a CU22. My CU22 has 57/08s and is a VERY magical instrument. The neck feels great, the tone is more "vintage" than my 24 fretters, yet still has a "smoothness" that enables me to play fusion-esque leads lines. I find that the biggest difference between the CU22 and the DC594 - aside from overall output, which really isn't too drastically different - is that the DC594 has more natural low end. I dig it, but I think something is "lost" between the heft of the wood combined with the LT pickups. It's a cool thing, but given a choice to have only ONE, I'd go CU22 - but only if it had 57/08s.

Going into "Specialty" and "Signature" models....I have a Paul's and a DGT. The DGT has a tone that sits somewhere (to my ears, anyway) between the 594 and the CU22. It seems to have a little more of that low end that the 594 has (not exactly, but it seems close). However, as a caveat, I run my pickups lower into the rings on my DGT. The Paul's Guitar seems really be it's own thing, but the tone is still a bit bass heavier that the CU22 - which is very clear and even in tone. The Narrow 408 pickups really sound great clean, slightly driven, or with molten, face-melting drive. The coil taps are amazing - almost P90-ish. I should mention that my PG is a pre-TCI version.

If you're starting to bond with the DC594, I think you'll be pleased. It's a great guitar, and really seems to be popular!!

 

[HANGAR18]

I got the key word, but respectfully, I gotta say it depends how you define ‘nearly’. Having both on hand, the frequencies each guitar emphasizes is pretty different, and the resonances are different, too.

This isn’t to say the CU24 can’t do a credible LP type tone - It can get in the ball park, and is a superb guitar any way you slice it. But its thing is prominent mids and upper mids. The 594’s got more bottom, and the mids are less prominent.

One day I’ll have to get some frequency response screenshots of each guitar with the accurate FFT spectrum analyzer that’s part of Waves’ F6 plugin. It’ll be an interesting comparison!

But, um, this isn’t the day. I’m wiped out.

The [EDIT] 58/15 LT, and 85/15 pickups are all the same pickups. Full stop.
The reason for the different designation is that one is a "Low Turn" version.
Another is a covered pickup (and not a low turn version).
Another is a covered pickup (and not a low turn version).
Is there a tonal difference between each of the different versions? I'll say Yes.
Can HANGAR18 personally hear the difference between them? Doubtful.
Big different or small difference? Small.
ie "Nearly Identical"
Size is a relative term.
Hold that thought.

Body shapes of the different guitars. Big difference.
Custom 24: Thin.
McCarty 594 Doublecut: Thicker.
McCarty 594 Singlecut: Even thicker.

Tone control options: Big difference
2 Vol & 2 Tone with Push/Pull pots
vs
1 Vol & 1 Tone with a 5-way switch

Can HANGAR18 hear the difference between a thick solid body and a thin solid body. No.
But the difference in the feel of the thick body and neck versus the thin is a big difference in playability. Add to that the different tone control switch options which also affects the playing experience.
This is why I am of the opinion that the difference in the feel/playability is a bigger deal than the differences in tone between the Cu24's and the McCarty 594's... Since you brought it up.

 

[Mozzi]

The 58/15, 58/15 LT, and 85/15 pickups are all the same pickups. Full stop.

INCORRECT!!!!

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/question-about-85-15-and-58-15-pickups.27550/

They are very similar, but not identical. Tonally there are other differences besides just the covers.

https://www.prsguitars.com/index.ph...nd_the_release_of_the_new_85_15_58_15_designs

All of this will tell you the 85/15 are different - not just an uncovered 58/15 as you state. Unless you can prove your comment, despite the irrefutable evidence that PRS themselves state, then you are incorrect.

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/58-15-and-85-15-pickups.23155/

The illustration on this thread does state that there are similarities but the graphs are different for each of the 58/15, 58/15LT and 85/15 Pickups. All the Official information, including @Shawn@PRS comments all indicate that the 85/15's are not just uncovered 58/15's so can you provide any information to back up your statement??

 

[HANGAR18]

INCORRECT!!!!

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/question-about-85-15-and-58-15-pickups.27550/



https://www.prsguitars.com/index.ph...nd_the_release_of_the_new_85_15_58_15_designs

All of this will tell you the 85/15 are different - not just an uncovered 58/15 as you state. Unless you can prove your comment, despite the irrefutable evidence that PRS themselves state, then you are incorrect

All of the PRS videos I've seen and you want me to find the ONE video I saw where PRSh said they were all the same? Okay, let me get right one that. I don't just make up stuff. Believe what you want.

 

[tonytester]

I fon't fnow for sure.

but i think they are similar

 

[HANGAR18]

The 58/15, 58/15 LT, and 85/15 pickups are all the same pickups. Full stop.
The reason for the different designation is that one is a "Low Turn" version.
Another is a covered pickup (and not a low turn version).
Another is a covered pickup (and not a low turn version).
Is there a tonal difference between each of the different versions? I'll say Yes.
Can HANGAR18 personally hear the difference between them? Doubtful.
Big different or small difference? Small.
ie "Nearly Identical"
Size is a relative term.
Hold that thought.

Body shapes of the different guitars. Big difference.
Custom 24: Thin.
McCarty 594 Doublecut: Thicker.
McCarty 594 Singlecut: Even thicker.

Tone control options: Big difference
2 Vol & 2 Tone with Push/Pull pots
vs
1 Vol & 1 Tone with a 5-way switch

Can HANGAR18 hear the difference between a thick solid body and a thin solid body. No.
But the difference in the feel of the thick body and neck versus the thin is a big difference in playability. Add to that the different tone control switch options which also affects the playing experience.
This is why I am of the opinion that the difference in the feel/playability is a bigger deal than the differences in tone between the Cu24's and the McCarty 594's... Since you brought it up.

Correction: 58/15 LT, and 85/15 pickups are the same base pickups with the differences I mentioned regarding covers and number of turns. I'm fine with being wrong on this but I firmly believe I saw one of many videos where PRSh stated this.

 

[László]

Correction: 58/15 LT, and 85/15 pickups are the same base pickups with the differences I mentioned regarding covers and number of turns. I'm fine with being wrong on this but I firmly believe I saw one of many videos where PRSh stated this.

I saw that video, too. You aren’t making it up!

However, the CU24 with the 85/15s and the other guitars here at Casa Les (all PRS) all sound quite different, they don’t just feel different. And as far as my perception goes, the differences are significant, I.e., not small.

This isn’t about words, logic, or definitions, though. It’s about actual sound, and how it’s perceived. It’s about audio.

I’ve submitted a lot of recorded demos of my PRSes to the forum over the years, and so far none of the comments have been that all of the guitars sound pretty much the same.

Hopefully, you’ve played all these models through the same amps and have a handle on what you’ve heard.

Whether you perceive a large or small difference is something that’s personal to you, and can’t be verified by anyone else. That’s your sense of hearing as transmitted to your brain. Other folks are not in your head, and can’t be expected to account for your perception. No one can say you shouldn’t think what you think!

In any case, my findings are different.

The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that several of your fellow forum members have different perceptions based on their ownership and familiarity with these models, and disagree with you based on their experiences and perceptions.

Since you don’t perceive the audio the same way other folks do - nothing wrong with that, it is what it is - there’s not much point in taking the discussion further, and folks are only going to get steamed, which isn’t worth it.

 

[HANGAR18]

I saw that video, too. You aren’t making it up!

However, the CU24 with the 85/15s and the other guitars here at Casa Les (all PRS) all sound quite different, they don’t just feel different. And as far as my perception goes, the differences are significant, I.e., not small.

This isn’t about words, logic, or definitions, though. It’s about actual sound, and how it’s perceived. It’s about audio.

I’ve submitted a lot of recorded demos of my PRSes to the forum over the years, and so far none of the comments have been that all of the guitars sound pretty much the same.

Hopefully, you’ve played all these models through the same amps and have a handle on what you’ve heard.

Whether you perceive a large or small difference is something that’s personal to you, and can’t be verified by anyone else. That’s your sense of hearing as transmitted to you brain. Other folks are not in your head, and can’t be expected to account for your perception. No one can say you shouldn’t think what you think!

In any case, my findings are different.

The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that several of your fellow forum members have different perceptions based on their ownership and familiarity with these models, and disagree with you based on their experiences and perceptions.

Since you don’t perceive the audio the same way other folks do - nothing wrong with that, it is what it is - there’s not much point in taking the discussion further, and folks are only going to get steamed, which isn’t worth it.

Thank you Les, It seems to me like we are on the proverbial "same sheet of music".

 

[Mozzi]

I have the 85/15's, 58/15 LT's (in 2 guitars) and 58/15 MT's and they are different. I am certain the 85/15 PU's are hotter than the 58/15 LT's and whether its that or the fact they are differently voiced, I don't know. In the video, Paul talks about the wiring being the same which you may take to mean that they are the same Pick-up but all that may mean is that PRS use the same type of wire for making both - it makes sense to buy the same grade wire but change the turns or the way they are wound to create the differences that PRS and @Shawn@PRS state these pick-ups have.

If they have the same wire and magnets, its understandable why they may be seen as having the same 'basic' build but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the same Pick-up and that the only difference is the cover. The amount of turns, the way they are wound, where they are tapped/split etc can all be different and create a 'different' pick-up from the same basic construction/materials.

All I have to go on is the fact that PRS themselves state that there is more difference than just the fact the 85/15's are uncovered and, until I have proof that PRS & @Shawn@PRS have lied to us, I can only believe that there is more of a difference. By stating they are the same, just uncovered, then I want proof that is the case, evidence that shows categorically that PRS have lied about the fact that there is more of a difference.

 

[László]

Thank you Les, It seems to me like we are on the proverbial "same sheet of music".

You bet.

As we most often are!

 

[László]

I have the 85/15's, 58/15 LT's (in 2 guitars) and 58/15 MT's and they are different. I am certain the 85/15 PU's are hotter than the 58/15 LT's and whether its that or the fact they are differently voiced, I don't know. In the video, Paul talks about the wiring being the same which you may take to mean that they are the same Pick-up but all that may mean is that PRS use the same type of wire for making both - it makes sense to buy the same grade wire but change the turns or the way they are wound to create the differences that PRS and @Shawn@PRS state these pick-ups have.

If they have the same wire and magnets, its understandable why they may be seen as having the same 'basic' build but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the same Pick-up and that the only difference is the cover. The amount of turns, the way they are wound, where they are tapped/split etc can all be different and create a 'different' pick-up from the same basic construction/materials.

All I have to go on is the fact that PRS themselves state that there is more difference than just the fact the 85/15's are uncovered and, until I have proof that PRS & @Shawn@PRS have lied to us, I can only believe that there is more of a difference. By stating they are the same, just uncovered, then I want proof that is the case, evidence that shows categorically that PRS have lied about the fact that there is more of a difference.

Good analysis. It’s funny, I’d heard the 85/15s were the 58/15s without the covers, but when I got the CU24, I thought they were awfully different! Some of that could just be down to the differences in the guitars themselves, but they seem to drive my amps in a very different way, and I sure like the guitar with those pickups. They’re a nice match for it.

I feel awfully lucky to have glommed onto the little handful of guitars I’ve got. They seem like my best choices ever.

I’m inspired to do a comparison of the guitars through a clean, neutral sounding amp, so folks can hear what we’re talking about. The timing’s not bad, because I’m experimenting with a new mic technique I’ve been thinking about, so I may just do it.

 

[Mozzi]

@LSchefman I would like to see the output meter for each guitar - I don't have the means to do this myself and only have the experience of plugging in my Custom 24 after setting the amp to be on the verge of break-up for my 594 which leads me to the deduction that the 85/15's are hotter. Voicing is a bit more tricky because the 594 and HBii are quite different from the Custom 24 in numerous ways that I could not honestly say that the voicing wasn't because of the build differences. I can't say that the differences I hear between my Special semi-hollow with the 58/15 MT and my Custom 24 aren't due to the differences in the build either.

I don't want to call @HANGAR18 a liar (or you either) but if there isn't more of a difference than covered vs uncovered, that would mean that the information from PRS is incorrect and that they have lied to us. Of course, both could still be true but a miscommunication - the fact that fundamentally, they are made in the same way with the same materials BUT that PRS has done something, maybe the way the wires are wound or number of winds, that make them different and voiced differently. I know that if you put more winds in one area at some point, you can change the voicing even if the pick-ups end up with the same number of winds. Hearing that they are using the same wire material and same magnets may be misconstrued by some hearing that and lead them to believe they are the same so @HANGAR18 isn't necessarily lying but has misunderstood.

At the end of the day, I will tend to 'believe' the information from the official information and comments from PRS over anything else until I have proof to the contrary. Looking at the image provided by PRS about the Pickups, there are some similarity but also differences in the Bass/mid/treble graph too...

 

[László]

@LSchefman I would like to see the output meter for each guitar

That would be meaningless, since the input levels to the mic preamps will be adjusted for best audio quality with each guitar. That’s what I do when I record.

There are two things I’m interested in: 1) the timbre of each guitar; and, 2) how the guitar drives the amp from guitar volume 0 - 10, while keeping the amp controls the same for all guitars and all 3 microphones.

For other measurements everyone’s on their own, as this little comparison is more than enough free demo work for me!

Here is how the mics are set up; I’m going to use the DG amp since it can be driven easily with guitar volume changes, as opposed to a two channel amp that stays clean and only gets louder.

I’m going to use two dynamic mics and one condenser. The dynamics are a Sennheiser e945 supercardioid and an Audix i5; both sound good with this amp. The condenser is a JZ Black Hole. The Sennheiser and Black Hole are about 18” from the grill cloth, angled. The i5 is about 6” away from the grill cloth. I only put a mic against the grill cloth in live band recording emergencies, because I prefer to capture how the amp sounds in the room. I may or may not blend the Sennheiser and JZ mics. This project is going to take some time, because it’s a spare time kinda thing, and doing it right is time-consuming.

 

[Mozzi]

@LSchefman I have seen reviews that measure the output directly from the guitar and thought this maybe a way to show whether there is a difference and if so, by how much. If there is a better way, not that I have any experience to question the methods, then I will look forward to seeing the results. I have always believed the 'meter' at the guitar method was the best way to measure the output of the PU's - individually and together.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing any conclusions you find from your own methods.