Finding Right Guitar - New to PRS and this Forum

[elvis]

+1 for Carl. Even for the least expensive of my guitars, I spent hours playing them before forming any sort of opinion. Or a few minutes when they are obviously not a good fit.

Still, you'll want to know what questions to ask yourself when evaluating the guitars.

 

[dkilpatrick]

I don't have a 594, but I do have one on order.

One of the wood library runs from Northeast music?

 

[László]

One of the wood library runs from Northeast music?

Yup. I'm lookin' forward to it!

 

[dkilpatrick]

Yup. I'm lookin' forward to it!

Nice, those look killer

 

[László]

Nice, those look killer

Jack's good with the wood (said rhymin' Les).

 

[moT]

Still, you'll want to know what questions to ask yourself when evaluating the guitars.

I am not there yet.

The closest place is Carmel, but they stopped selling PRS a while back due to lack of enough local interest to keep a decent guitar store in business around here. The next closest is probably Gilroy's GC or a nice little Santa Cruz independent. I like the independent, but I don't see having the 3 hours to get up there and back anytime soon - maybe this fall at best. I am not a big fan of GCs in general and this one in particular in Gilroy, but it's better than nothing. Last time I was there they didn't really make me want to come back. There are more places to consider up near San Francisco that have PRS, but with my time sandwiched the way it is at the moment any of these places might as well be in another state.

What I can do in the meantime is come up with questions and ideas about what would work best for me, but I agree it is still not as good as wandering through several stores like we did a month ago.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[moT]

Elvis,

Thanks for your questions. I will try to answer them so that I can develop a better idea of what guitar I should look for.

1. Do you want another double-cutaway like the strat?
Don't care. I just want a guitar that plays well and sounds good.

2. 22 or 24 frets?
I thought at first I wanted 24 frets, but I assume there is a noticeable difference with the neck pickup between the two and am open to whatever works best for me.

3. Neck scale.
I have a 25.5" scale acoustic (24 fret with cutaway) and 24.5" scale (20 frets, 13 free w/ no heel nor cutaway - Blackbird Lucky 13). I play both regularly. I really like the shorter scale and am comfortable with either, but don't know how that translates to electric feel, play or sound.

4. Bridge. I strongly recommend fixed-bridge.
Don't know enough to even ask the right question.

3, adjustable, non adjustable and tremolo.
Again don't know. I thought at first that I would want a trem like the strat has, but I don't use it there though I guess I could learn.

5. SE or core? I have both, they are all great bang for the buck.
Don't even understand what a core is. I have to do more research or talk to a PRS junkie to figure out this and other terms or nuances.

6. Used?
I don't care. I like the idea of getting a new, but more importantly I want a guitar that works for me.

Addition info:

7) I pretty much never liked using a capo on an acoustic and usually transpose as needed to a key I prefer or need. This causes me not to do authentic solos sometime, but I muddle through somehow.

8) I think I would like to use lighter strings so I don't have to work so hard at bends and barres.

Tom

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I suggest you slow down and get to trying as many guitars as possible. Really, the only way to do this is to work with a store that has a good return policy, so for used, I'd go Guitar Center, and for new I'd go Sweetwater or any of the others listed that have a decent return policy. It sounds like you're fairly particular so I will not say it's safe to buy over the internet sound unheard (feel unplayed? The guitar equivalent of sight unseen.). It is for me -- I've bought most of my guitars without playing them first, and have only been disappointed with only a couple used models that were worse off than I realized. But I'd also felt fairly certain I was going to keep the guitars before I bought them -- my returns have been fewer than fingers on a hand, and I've bought more guitars than fingers and toes.

You can do 'strat' on a PRS...but why? PRS started out more in the Les Paul school, but has evolved into its own thing. I'd recommend going at a guitar more tabula rasa and just judging each based on its own merits.

That said, the new Custom 24-08 and the 594 -- with their brilliantly flexible electronics, the 24-08 with switches, the 594 with knobs -- would probably be good places to start. The 513 is crazy flexible, too. It's a really powerful tone tool in the right hands, but I wouldn't recommend it to but the most advanced guitarists.

 

[gush]

Welcome.

I'm a trem guy. I used to only buy guitars that had floyds then I grew tired of the string changes. My wife got me a fixed bridge McCarty and I loved it. I decided to ditch trems and got a cu22 fixed bridge.

The thing is, I really like to incorporate trem tricks in my playing so I always felt like my hands were tied.

I bought a cu24 trem and never looked back. I will never sell my McCarty because it was a gift from my wife plus I like the wide fat neck.
my cu22 doesn't see much playing time and is one I would sell or trade.

Now im back to only trem guitars again. I have a cu24 and three CEs with prs trems.I love em.

Watch Joe Satriani live and you will get an idea of how useful a trem can be.

 

[moT]

I suggest you slow down and get to trying as many guitars as possible.

I am all talk at the moment. I still have to figure out how to get by #4 from the first post before any guitars come this way. So in the meantime I am educating myself here on the Internet until I can figure out a way to get the mostly likely prospects of these guitars in my hand.

I'm a trem guy.

I don't know what I am electric wise. I think I would like a trem, but I don't want to lose something else though I don't know what that something else is exactly (sustain maybe).

 

[Dusty Chalk]

The nice thing about stoptails/hardtails is they take half as long to tune. That said, PRS trems are the best* in the business, so if you're going to try any, try one of theirs.

least pain

 

[dogrocketp]

The biggest question, to me, is the budget. I have a magic SE EG that was very inexpensive. I also have a core Mira that just screams. Then there are the other 7.........

 

[moT]

The biggest question, to me, is the budget.

Obviously $2k or more is harder to rationalize than $500, but I want to focus on the right guitar to get and worry about those pesky details such as how to afford it later. I don't need glitz, but I do want a guitar that plays well and is a great fit given what we already have in the house.

 

[shinksma]

Hey moT,

Unlike you, I knew exactly what PRS was going to be my first, including color, because I saw one of my favorite artists playing the exact thing I wanted (except one slight difference - # of frets, I wanted 24, he was playing 22, although I didn't know that at the time). But I don't know if that is typical.

To clarify some terminology: a "Core" model is the original USA-built line of PRSi ("PRSi" is our name for PRS instruments), the "SE" line is a more-budget-oriented model built under license in Korea - and the SEs are very good instruments, I have 5! In between is the S2 line, which is USA-made, but with an eye to budgetary concerns, and uses some of the less-expensive components found in the SE models. The S2 has a simpler carve to the top of the body, more like a bevel - the Core line has a curvy violin-like carve to the top. (I should mention the SE line has a different carve yet again, a simpler flat design with outside curve, but it is comfortable.) The S2s are a fine compromise for those folks looking for USA-made but not the full-blown price of a core line.

The Core line models typically have very nice figured maple tops. The S2 line has plainer-looking tops. The SE line usually has really nice looking tops, but the figuring is a veneer applied to a very plain maple top - it still looks great, and has essentially the same tone (endless pontificating is possible on this point), but it is far less expensive to make.

Let's start with what you said so far: you play 25.5" and 24.5" acoustics, and you seem to like the shorter scale. Although that does translate to an electric, it may not be a deal breaker, since most PRSi are 25" scale, and the largest minority are 24.5".

You said you aren't sure about the bridge - fixed or tremolo. Most PRSi sold are the Custom22 and Custom24 models - they are the foundation models of the PRS business. They most commonly come with a tremolo. If you like your son's MIM Strat, you should like these tremolo bridges. The CU22 and CU24 are available in the SE, S2 and Core lines.

The CE model you have mentioned was traditionally a core model, but was discontinued for many years, and has been re-introduced with some minor compromises in the hardware, using S2 line components in some places. I think it is still considered a Core model, though, because it has the Core carve to the top of the body. The biggest difference/feature that makes it special in the PRS line is that it has a bolt-on neck, like a Strat. Most PRSi have glued-in necks, like Les Pauls.

I would suggest you look at two options: the S2 line of CU22/24, or the CE. The CE will lean a little more towards the Strat sound due to the maple bolt-on neck - but it will not sound exactly like a Strat.

If you want to be a bit more budgetary-conscious, then look at the SE line of CU22/24.

Anyway, keep on looking, and keep asking questions. There is a lot to PRS and their fine instruments.

Oh and yeah, you will very likely not stop at one. Or two.

 

[moT]

When I first started looking online at PRS (almost a month ago) I thought I would want a 24 frets, 25" scale with a trem. I don't have to have one with a strat sound. I like the push/pull thing, so I probably want that too. I don't know what tapping is even after reading a definition and I think splitting is what the push/pull does, but I could have my words wrong. I don't know if the double or single cut changes the sound or is just a style preference either or if having extra volume/tone controls would be that useful. Wide/thin, fat etc...? Also I think I am leaning toward a 22 fret model now too. I am a total novice in the electric world but am learning slowly.

I saw the word "core" used but thought it meant high end American made but wasn't sure and want to thank you for the clarification. I prefer knowing over guessing in most situations. You have answered many of my questions, but have also helped me to come up with more. Why does the S2 CU get your recommendation over a SE CU? What other guitars in the line up have a bolt on neck?

Here is a short list of some of the guitars I am looking at still. No particular order.

SE Bernie Marsden
SE 245
CE 24 (McCarty?)
SE Custom 22
SE Custom 24 (Floyd)
S2 Custom 24
SE Zach Myers
SE standard 24/22/245

I don't know about the other 'named' models, but I could be interested too. I realize the SE versions have cheaper parts/construction, but is it noticeably cheaper?

In my experience with other types of equipment and musical instruments is that there is a sweet spot where the quality is good enough in a lesser model such that an average person (or even a skilled musician) can't tell the difference in a blind test which is which and the only differences are aesthetic ones such as extra or more exotic inlay or purfling. Add to this that an electric guitar is meant to be played live through an amp and some of these noticeable differences in tone wood for example between the high end and lower may get washed away once it is plugged in. I am not a sound engineer, but I do happen to help engineers with quantifying error and other statistical questions similar to these - just not on musical instruments. That is the area of instruments I want to focus on.

The bottom line is I want a guitar that feels best in my hands for fretting, bending etc... across the entire fret board and is indistinguishable from the best out there pugged in live on stage (or more likely sooner is busking at the local farmer's market - haven't done it yet but kid is interested). I consider the core look a nice to have, so I am willing to look at the entire line up and keep asking these type of questions until someone starts throwing up their favorite pie recipes instead of answering the mail. I am currently guessing the guitar I am describing is near the CE trim line, but it could be something like a Mira or Bernie.

You have provided a great amount of food for thought in the last day of questions and answers and hopefully some of it will stick when I finally get a chance to walk into a decent guitar shop again. Thank you.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[veinbuster]

Of the guitars you listed thinking of, the McCarty is really going to stand out as a wonderful guitar to play and is by far the most likely to become a family member for the long haul - like generations worth. I think it really epitomizes what PRS is about. CE24 is a bit different in that it is a bolt on. These are well loved guitars for good reason.

I looked for a couple of years before buying my first PRS. I had a pretty good idea what I wanted, but wasn't in a rush so stopped in a stores when it was convenient (I probably went to 20 stores in various parts of the country, but rarely made a special trip to anywhere more than an hour away). If you're good at holding onto the money allocated for the guitar, something will show up that you can buy - or at the very least you'll have found chances to try a few and have a much better idea what you want and can make the next stage doing the internet search for that guitar in the right colour with the right options. It seems like you are prepared to be patient, so that is how I would go about it.

qualifier: I don't like buying things twice, so I take my time to make sure I'm getting what I want the first time.

 

[Huggy Love]

Oh, you've opened up Pandora's box on this one, As you can see you're gonna get a ton of input here and I concur with the Mccarty suggestion and that it's (semi) safe ordering a PRS online because the standards of this manufacturer are so high that they don't produce "dogs", if you know what I mean. There's always risks in buying used/unseen instruments online, that's why I don't go that route, but I'm a hands on guitar buyer and prefer to play even new instruments before I plunk down cash.

I think it's worth a drive to a couple PRS dealers to get familiar with the models and their feel, plus it will really fuel the fire.

 

[László]

I am all talk at the moment.

Well, then, looks like it's time to saddle up and go shopping!

We have expectations! NGD, pictures, audio clips! Get busy! Don't procrastinate!



Oh...uhm....no pressure or anything.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

I don't know what tapping is even after reading a definition and I think splitting is what the push/pull does,

One component of a guitar pickup is a coil of wire. The guitar string vibrating through the pickups magnetic field induces a current in the wire coil. The more turns on the coil, the more current is induced and the pickup can push the amplifier harder. More windings typically add more midrange and reduce top end.

If someone wanted to reduce the output of a coil, they could "tap" it part way down. So, if a coil had 6500 turns would around it you could tap it at the 5500 turn mark and get a drop in output and a shift in tone.

A wire coil is also known as an antenna, and a single coil can and will pickup unwanted background noise. A humbucker has two coils as is designed so that background noise picked up by the one coil is cancelled out by the same noise being picked up by the other coil (ie, it bucks hum). It also changes the tone because two coils are sensing the string from a slightly different point on the string, and then the results of both are added to each other.

A coil "split" is when you split a humbucker and only use one of the coils.

PRS uses a tap. Their humbuckers are setup so that one coil stays on full, and the second coil is tapped for reduced output. This allows you to get a quasi single coil sound from the one coil, while retaining the majority of the humbucking from having the second coil still somewhat active.

I don't know if the double or single cut changes the sound or is just a style preference either or if having extra volume/tone controls would be that useful.

Generally, a single cut is considered to produce more low end than a double cut. That said, my McCarty is thicker and smoother sounding than my SC, and my SC is much brighter and more cutting than my McCarty.... So wood plays a role here too.

Wide/thin, fat etc...? Also I think I am leaning toward a 22 fret model now too. I am a total novice in the electric world but am learning slowly.

Thinner necks are generally preferred by guys who play fast and shred up and down the neck or play with the thumb on the back of the neck. Thicker necks are generally preferred by guys who play slower or play with their thumb hooked over the neck. That said, it's a pretty personal decision and there's probably a lot of people who disagree with what I just wrote.

There's a bunch of differences that come with 22 vs 24 fret, but the one most focus on is the change to the neck pickup tone. It's a little thinner on a 24 fret guitar. I prefer 22 fret guitars for the fatter, warmer neck tones, particularily when playing clean. However, the thinner sound of a 24 fret neck pickup seems to work better when using high gain and soloing. It stays clearer and more defined were as the 22 fret neck pickup will typically get a bit muddy.

If you're undecided/unsure, most people use 22 fret necks. If you want fatter clean tones and/or play bluesy rock you'll probably be happier with 22 frets. If you're thinking you might want to take up lead and start shredding solos at 1 million notes per second then you'll probably be happier I with a wide/thin 24 fret neck.

Why does the S2 CU get your recommendation over a SE CU?

Probably because the S2 is a "better" guitar.

SE guitars are good value. I own one SE and two Cores. I in no way feel that the SE is a cheap guitar. It sounds great and plays great. But compare it to a Core and its obvious that the Core is several steps up in terms of quality. It's not just "bling factor" either, there are many functional and material upgrades to the guitars as well.

The S2s are in between. A step up from SE, and a step down from Core. Since you appear to be looking for a workhorse guitar I'd suggest either an SE or S2, depending on your budget.

Here is a short list of some of the guitars I am looking at still. No particular order.

SE Custom 24 (Floyd)
[/QUOTE]

Unless you're planning on doing dive bombs and/or heavily abusing the trem you probably don't want something with a Floyd. See: Van Halen, Kirk Hammett, Those dudes from Dragonforce.

 

[shinksma]

Hey moT,

I recommended the S2 series as a mild preference over the SE because there are a few nice-to-haves such as locking tuners, and also that "je ne sais quoi" element in the US-built models that push the quality that little extra bit. As I said, the SEs are very very nice guitars, especially for their price points.

I also recommend staying away from the Floyd Rose-equipped Custom 24 - although it is a well-regarded tremolo system, the PRS version is top-notch (even on the SEs, IMHO) and much easier to deal with string changes, etc.

I've tossed out some suggestions, as have others, and you have a list of possibilities already. The next thing to do is get your hands on one or more models, to get that true feel for the body shapes and neck profiles and hear how they sound. There are a non-zero number of folks here on this forum that bought a PRS thinking it was going to be just perfect but then found some seemingly-minor characteristic that wasn't what they expected - could be pickup sound, could be neck feel, could be lots of things.

If you absolutely can't try a PRS before you buy, I would look for a really nice SE CU22 or CU24 from somewhere like Sweetwater or a multitude of other dealers that have a good return policy if you simply don't like it.

But that's just my opinion, man.