ARCHON, 2 CHANNEL C, H, CUSTOM 50 ?

[Steven Beardsley]

I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DECIDE WHICH AMP TO PURCHASE NOT THAT ANY ONE OF THEM WOULD BE A MISTAKE. MY FAVORITE POWER TUBE IS EL34 WHICH HAD ME LISTENING TO ALL THE VIDS FOR THAT AMP THE 2 CHANNEL C. I FOUND ONE NEW AND ONE USED FROM THE 2010 EXPIERENCE CLAIMING TO BE ONE OF ONLY 20 MADE FOR THAT PROJECT. I ALSO LIKE THE 2 CHANNEL H AND THE CUSTOM 50 IS AMAZING TOO. IS THE C OUT OF PRODUCTION AND IF SO DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHY. I'M A 61 YEAR CRUSTY OLD BASTARD WHO FAVORS BLUSE BASED ROCK. I KNOW THIS IS BY FAR A PERSONAL CHOICE BUT COULD SOME PLEASE GIVE ME THE LOW DOWN ON PAULS 2 CHANNEL AMPS SO HOPEFULLY I PURCHASE THE BEST ONE FOR MY TASTE. I'M LEANING TOWARD THE 2 CHANNEL C AND THE NEW CUSTOM 50 AND PROBABLY GET BOTH. ANY INFO WOULD BE MUCH APPRIECATED. THANKS STEVEN

 

[andy474x]

I think you should get them all.

 

[László]

Steven, I'm a crusty old bastard myself, welcome. One thing PRS did when getting into their single-channel amps for their 25th Anniversary model a few years back was get their hands on Duane Allman's old Marshall from "Live At The Fillmore." Yeah, the actual amp; the Allman Brothers were playing PRS amps onstage (I understand they're no longer touring), and they helped PRS locate the amp.

Incidentally, for the HXDA, they also got their hands on one of Eric Johnson's amps. So the HX and DA settings have obvious connotations, Hendrix and Duane Allman.

I'm no expert, and others will probably correct me, but here's my understanding of the "H" and "C" stuff.

Heyboer made the transformers for the H amp, and PRS felt that it was best with 6L6 tubes. Cinemag made the transformers for the C amp, and PRS felt that it sounded best with EL34s.

Around the time of PRS' 25th Anniversary (2010) PRS designed a single channel amp named, appropriately enough, the 25th Anniversary Amp. This became the platform for some of PRS' classic single channel amps that follow the Marshall Plexi sound. When they got their hands on Duane Allman's "Live At The Fillmore" amp and took it apart, they had Cinemag and Heyboer clone the transformers. They felt Cinemag nailed it, and this transformer was used in amps descended from the 25th Anni platform, like the HXDA, the Recording Amp, Paul's Amp, and I think the MDT.

The HXDA came as a result of adding circuits from one of Eric Johnson's old Plexis, so that amp can do both the old Superbass and Superlead (I have one, and it is incredible, the whole amp gets controlled with your guitar volume control as in days of yore when I was coming up).

So if you want a 2 channel amp, and like EL34s, the C is your man. I believe the C transformers are also in the 2 Channel 50, that is the successor to the 2 Channel C.

EDIT: I just remembered that the 2 Channel 50 might come with the Heyboers and 6L6s, so obviously feel free to heckle my ignorance.

Before plunking down your dough, though, you might have fun checking out an HXDA. Roll down the volume, and you've got beautiful clean tones, roll it up, and you have gain. And of course, there are two gain controls that blend like when you run a jumper into an old 4 hole Marshall, only the jumper is internal. Wonderful amp. But one channel, like in the old days.

 

[aristotle]

I have both the C (actually from the same run that you are considering if I'm not mistaken) and the Archon. I've never played the Custom.

Since you describe yourself as crusty, I'm going to veto the Archon for you. I love the amp, and you can get some classic bluesy tones out of it, but you really have to try hard, and the zone is quite small.

I'll also say that the loop on the C is great, and nice and quiet, and that the amp as a whole is very flexible. The clean channel can do a great JTM like tone also if you don't mind cranking it a bit. And that brings up another point.... I'm very often surprised at how similar 6L6 based amps and EL34 based amps can sound. I wouldn't discount the Custom out of hand on the basis of its 6L6's.

In any case, if you gig and you really want the flexibility of going from nice and clean to very dirty with the kick of a switch, then the C (or potentially the Custom) is a slam dunk.

To Les' point though, if you are using this thing at home, and there isn't a need to go from pristine clean to dirt mid-song, you might consider a single channel amp. The go-to suggestion around here is the HX/DA. I love that amp too, but for me (and I've played every PRS single channel amp except the Dallas) the MDT is the best of the bunch.

And if a single channel amp isn't in the cards for you, I can't see that you'd ever be disappointed with the C, particularly from that run....

 

[Rider1260]

I have the 2 Channel H BUT mine is modded ( rebiased ) with EL34s it came that way to me and it does it all it has replaced my life long MKII Boggie as my main amp
( I have some crust at 55 ) I may try the stock 6L6s in it someday but I am really happy for now ( I would also like to try the HXDA someday )
Takes pedals well

 

[11top]

I own a Custom, an H, and an Archon. I used to own a C. All heads.

My favorite is the Custom, no contest. I like the gain channel tones the best, and it is the most versatile. However, the Archon"s clean channel is spectacular.

 

[TroyBaer]

I have the Archon 50. It has the best clean channel I've ever heard and a gloriously vicious sounding gain channel, but it doesn't have much in between those two extremes without help from pedals. For bluesy late '60s/early '70s rock, I'd probably lean toward the HXDA instead.

 

[Steven Beardsley]

thanks Im in the process of owning one of the HXDA

 

[bodia]

thanks Im in the process of owning one of the HXDA

Great choice! Congrats!

 

[Steven Beardsley]

I pick one up on eBay that has the effects loop mod and gain boost mod for 1900 shipped. But the seller went on vacation the day he put it up and won't be back until the 28th and we live a hour and 15 from each other. I finally buy some thing that doesn't have to come from far a way and I'm still going to have to wait lol

 

[11top]

I have the Archon 50. It has the best clean channel I've ever heard and a gloriously vicious sounding gain channel, but it doesn't have much in between those two extremes without help from pedals.

Exactly my sentiments.

 

[László]

I pick one up on eBay that has the effects loop mod and gain boost mod for 1900 shipped. But the seller went on vacation the day he put it up and won't be back until the 28th and we live a hour and 15 from each other. I finally buy some thing that doesn't have to come from far a way and I'm still going to have to wait lol

It'll be worth the wait.

I was playing my HXDA today, and with the guitar volume around 4 on the guitar knob, the HX gain at around noon on the amp, and the DA gain around 8 o'clock on the amp, master at 2 o'clock, I was getting such beautiful clean sounds that it put a huge smile on my face. Turned the guitar up to about 8 on the guitar volume knob, and I was into some sweet gain, just beautiful stuff.

If you need any suggestions on how to set up the amp, feel free to ask for my endlessly boring opinion.

Be sure to use a good cab with it. The cab matters.

 

[Steven Beardsley]

I have a avatar signature 2x12 with greenbacks it sounds great with my friedman smallpox 50 what you think for the HXDA

 

[László]

I have a avatar signature 2x12 with greenbacks it sounds great with my friedman smallpox 50 what you think for the HXDA

Should be a good match if it works well with the Friedman. The HXDA is probably a bit warmer and more vintage sounding than Dave Friedman's amps, and it does a different thing. Great to have both!

As you know, the HX and DA gain can be blended, which is a beautiful thing. Of course, with Greenback speakers YMMV, I use the PRS Big Mouth cab with their modded V30s, so that's a difference, but here's how I set mine to get a really buttery, creamy "Les' Live at the Fillmore" overdrive tone controlled by the guitar's volume knob:

Switches: DA, DA, HX

HX Gain - 11:00 - 2:00 depending on needs of track
DA Gain - 8:00 - 10:00 as above, depending on track, what key I'm in, etc. (if I'm playing low on the neck, I don't want the room to shake with bass).
Treble - 10:00-12:00 (I like a smoother tone than most)
Mids - 12:00-1:00
Bass - 11:00-1:00, depending on key and track
Presence - around 10:00-11:00, depending on location
Master - On my 50 Watt version, it the amp opened up nicely with the master around 11:00, on the 30 Watt version I run it around 2:00

With a PRS humbucker pickup, I get a beautiful clean tone with the guitar volume around 4, and a nice gainy tone as I roll the volume up. This amp loves humbuckers.

For higher gain sounds, instead of turning up the amp gain, or using an overdrive, I just goose it a little with a compressor or a clean boost. It's a sensitive amp, a little goes a long way.

Of course, these settings are necessarily approximate since potentiometers will vary in their tolerances from amp to amp.

Anyway, try the settings just for grins, they're a pretty good starting point.

I sure hope your amp recovers from the smallpox...

 

[Steven Beardsley]

Should be a good match if it works well with the Friedman. The HXDA is probably a bit warmer and more vintage sounding than Dave Friedman's amps, and it does a different thing. Great to have both!

As you know, the HX and DA gain can be blended, which is a beautiful thing. Of course, with Greenback speakers YMMV, I use the PRS Big Mouth cab with their modded V30s, so that's a difference, but here's how I set mine to get a really buttery, creamy "Les' Live at the Fillmore" overdrive tone controlled by the guitar's volume knob:

Switches: DA, DA, HX

HX Gain - 11:00 - 2:00 depending on needs of track
DA Gain - 8:00 - 10:00 as above, depending on track, what key I'm in, etc. (if I'm playing low on the neck, I don't want the room to shake with bass).
Treble - 10:00-12:00 (I like a smoother tone than most)
Mids - 12:00-1:00
Bass - 11:00-1:00, depending on key and track
Presence - around 10:00-11:00, depending on location
Master - On my 50 Watt version, it the amp opened up nicely with the master around 11:00, on the 30 Watt version I run it around 2:00

With a PRS humbucker pickup, I get a beautiful clean tone with the guitar volume around 4, and a nice gainy tone as I roll the volume up. This amp loves humbuckers.

For higher gain sounds, instead of turning up the amp gain, or using an overdrive, I just goose it a little with a compressor or a clean boost. It's a sensitive amp, a little goes a long way.

Of course, these settings are necessarily approximate since potentiometers will vary in their tolerances from amp to amp.

Anyway, try the settings just for grins, they're a pretty good starting point.

I sure hope your amp recovers from the smallpox...

Unfortunately the seller cancelled on me so I never got the HXDA. I found a new used 2 channel custom 50 and went for that. While the clean channel is nice it didn't give me a woody and the lead channel I didn't care for at all. I should of waited for another HXDA to come by. I like the small box 50 a millions times better. I'm still considering the HXDA. Have you had and experience with the 50 custom because if the HXDA sounds any thing like the custom then it's not for me. But it like the small box but more vintagie then I'd like that.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Ok, guess we need to know what kind of tones you are going for before we can advise much, because the Custom is better suited for the blues rock tones I'm familiar with than a Small Box and is much different from an HX/DA. I have a friend with a Small Box and he's put up two clips of the amp. One is a dead nutz ringer for the VH "Brown Sound" and the other is pure modified high gain Marshall. Not saying it won't do blues rock stuff... But the Custom has a GREAT clean channel and a really good OD channel. Maybe great. It's smoother but has a lot of gain and can be more open crunch with the gain down 10:00 or so.

So if you didn't love the cleans and didn't even like the OD, I'd need to know what you are playing into it (guitar) what you are playing it into (cab/speakers) and what tones you like. Because, based on the info in your first post. the Custom would be a great amp for you.

That said, if the HX/DA is the type tones and gain levels your looking for, you will find no better amp.

 

[Steven Beardsley]

I not going for any special tone just another amp I like as much as the small box. My guitars prs 408, 57 les paul custom, gibson 336 and a 65 strat. Cab avatar 2x12 with 25 watt heltones which are really 25 watt green backs broken in by avatar. The od channel sounds nasally compared to the small box and while the clean on the custom is good i like the small box better. What about the prs recording amp I came across one of the those for sale some where? and thanks for taking the time I'll really appreciate it

 

[László]

The HXDA is not at all the same as the 50, it's much more vintage-sounding; it's a completely different design. The 50 is advertised by PRS as a "modern versatility" sounding amp.

The HXDA is more authentic Plexi than the Friedman; to me the Friedman Small Box sounds harsher (sometimes that's what one wants!) and less buttery; it's more like a hot-rodded Plexi with bits of the JCM800 kind of vibe thrown in (so I prefer the HXDA to the Small Box, having played both). No surprise there, Dave Friedman started modding Marshalls in LA for arena rock guys, and his amp, as well as the Suhr SL68 that I also looked at, are definitely what I'd call LA style modded Plexis!

The HXDA is a different thing; it's a clone of Duane Allman's Plexi, that can be switched to become one of Eric Johnson's Hendrix style Plexis - they got EJ's actual amp to do that, too. They sourced more accurate transformers and the whole bit, so it's much more of a 1968-69 amplifier. This may or may not suit your needs, of course, if you prefer the amp you have - which is a very fine amp - that is a good thing!

We all appreciate different things, play differently, and have different ears. My HXDA sounds exactly like the one in this video; I'm using it with a PRS cab. If you like this tone, great, and if not, also great!
Try before you buy is my advice, though I'll admit I bought based on this video because this is the tone I was looking for for about 45 years.

 

[bodia]

The HXDA is not at all the same as the 50, it's much more vintage-sounding; it's a completely different design. The 50 is advertised by PRS as a "modern versatility" sounding amp.

The HXDA is more authentic Plexi than the Friedman; to me the Friedman Small Box sounds harsher (sometimes that's what one wants!) and less buttery; it's more like a hot-rodded Plexi with bits of the JCM800 kind of vibe thrown in (so I prefer the HXDA to the Small Box, having played both). No surprise there, Dave Friedman started modding Marshalls in LA for arena rock guys, and his amp, as well as the Suhr SL68 that I also looked at, are definitely what I'd call LA style modded Plexis!

The HXDA is a different thing; it's a clone of Duane Allman's Plexi, that can be switched to become one of Eric Johnson's Hendrix style Plexis - they got EJ's actual amp to do that, too. They sourced more accurate transformers and the whole bit, so it's much more of a 1968-69 amplifier. This may or may not suit your needs, of course, if you prefer the amp you have - which is a very fine amp - that is a good thing!

We all appreciate different things, play differently, and have different ears. My HXDA sounds exactly like the one in this video; I'm using it with a PRS cab. If you like this tone, great, and if not, also great!
Try before you buy is my advice, though I'll admit I bought based on this video because this is the tone I was looking for for about 45 years.

This is the first time I've seen this video. It REALLY makes me want to buy an HXDA, and I've already got one!

 

[László]

This is the first time I've seen this video. It REALLY makes me want to buy an HXDA, and I've already got one!

I mean, right? Of course the playing helps...

I set mine up to get those exact tones. Love that amp!