Any experience with Dave's Guitar Shop

[drdoom8793]

It's so....beautifullll.......:bawling:

 

[SlimB79]

oddly enough they just added a couple 30th anniversary CU24s and both are leftys

 

[rugerpc]

This, for the most part.

I'm heading there in a couple of weeks on a long weekend road trip with the wife. Chicago to Lacrosse, Lacrosse to the Quad Cities (where I am originally from), and then back to Chicago. The intent of the trip was to get back to Dave's and make a hands on purchase. The trip has been planned for 3 months, or so. I've been looking at their inventory since January trying to decide on what to get. I agree with DHW that their stock is aging, but there are a ton of terrific pieces to pick from,at some great prices. As for them getting a lot of used, kind of. Since I've been watching, it appears that they are moving some of their "New" instruments to "Used." For example, when I started looking they had 4 new 408's in stock (this would have been January time frame). Sometime in March all 4 were gone from the "New" category, and were now listed in the "Used" category at a substantially reduced price. All 4 have subsequently sold. I assume they do this as their inventory depreciates to the point that it makes fiscal sense to reclassify. At least listed as "Used" they can decrease the price and move the gear at little easier. Whether they take a loss vs. cost is anyone's guess. In each instance that I've seen this, the Used gear condition is listed as EC+. Not saying that everything Used they have listed as EC+ was reclassified, just making an observation. You'd have to see something you want, and watch it for quite a length of time and see what happens (and hope someone doesn't snag it out from under you). Again, this is purely from an observational standpoint.

and yes, I will be dining at Buzzard Billies!

I preface this post by saying that I don't know Dave's policy...

It makes NO sense to reclassify any new but previous year's model to "used." If it is unsold, it is "new" and carries a new warranty no matter when it sells. The correct method is to classify them "new, old stock" (NOS). It is not necessary for anyone to classify something as "used" to decrease its price to make it move.

It is more likely that the 408s sold and were returned for one reason or another.

 

[bodia]

I preface this post by saying that I don't know Dave's policy...

It makes NO sense to reclassify any new but previous year's model to "used." If it is unsold, it is "new" and carries a new warranty no matter when it sells. The correct method is to classify them "new, old stock" (NOS). It is not necessary for anyone to classify something as "used" to decrease its price to make it move.

It is more likely that the 408s sold and were returned for one reason or another.

well, then they would have to have sold three in one day, and had them returned the next. And then the same thing would have to happen with the fourth one a couple of weeks later. I didn't say that it made sense, just that this appears to happen. Same thing happened with the 3 Studios they had. More likely, it's,a way to move stagnant inventory at a reduced price without ticking off any other dealer. If I'm a dealer in town with a 408 listed at $3899 I'm going to be ticked if some one is selling a new one for $2999. Besides, I'm sure prs sets the price on their new gear. I don't know what things actually said in store, or with regards to the warranty. I'm just stating what there website inventory actions appear to be.

 

[bodia]

Just to put some closure to this, it must be a fairly common practice with aging inventory as I found this description on a 2012 DGT listed as "Used" at another dealer while looking for a guitar to purchase: "This is a new old stock--never sold and in mint condition. Does not include factory warranty. The finish has yellowed a bit in storage, but really looks cool!" Sorry, now the bold is locked, and I can't change it in editing....just wanted to add that I don't know what they say in store, but the brief description on-line doesn't mention NOS, or warranty related info. Not trying to ruffle feathers, or anything, just closing the loop with some additional info. Thanks.

 

[shinksma]

PRS has a policy that the MAP pricing must be used for all advertising for two or three years after initial release, I believe. I read the policy in-depth somewhere on the Interwebz, but don't remember where. I wouldn't be surprised if PRS waived the "Advertise at original MAP only" policy if the guitars are re-classified as "used - NOS". And perhaps Dave's feels that the guitars have been "sampled" enough that they no longer look perfectly 100% out of the box new, just "pretty darn close so we'll call it NOS Mint".

EDIT: found the policy - it was the last page of the 2015 price list, but I didn't see it in the version I just checked on the PRS website - I found it in the copy I downloaded a while back. Anyway, it says MAP must be applied to even "shop worn" products, and I think it says that MAP does not apply for two-years prior or discontinued models (it is a bit vague). Either way, I think Dave's could sell a 2012 or 2013 as "new" at whatever price they wanted, but it is much safer for them to re-classify as used.

 

[rugerpc]

So the really interesting question here is:

"How long does a PRS have to sit new and unsold before PRS will no longer honor its warranty?"
(If that, indeed, happens... )

 

[bodia]

PRS has a policy that the MAP pricing must be used for all advertising for two or three years after initial release, I believe. I read the policy in-depth somewhere on the Interwebz, but don't remember where. I wouldn't be surprised if PRS waived the "Advertise at original MAP only" policy if the guitars are re-classified as "used - NOS". And perhaps Dave's feels that the guitars have been "sampled" enough that they no longer look perfectly 100% out of the box new, just "pretty darn close so we'll call it NOS Mint".

EDIT: found the policy - it was the last page of the 2015 price list, but I didn't see it in the version I just checked on the PRS website - I found it in the copy I downloaded a while back. Anyway, it says MAP must be applied to even "shop worn" products, and I think it says that MAP does not apply for two-years prior or discontinued models (it is a bit vague). Either way, I think Dave's could sell a 2012 or 2013 as "new" at whatever price they wanted, but it is much safer for them to re-classify as used.

Thanks for the info. That's good to know.

 

[Drew]

Daves isn't the only one who started doing this. Wilcutts too. Wilcutts just refers to NOS as part of the luthier certified program and gives their own 1 year warranty. I don't think they've started to do it with PRS, but they have certainly done it with Fender products.

Anyways, I can't believe PRS is actually letting dealers do this. Its very sketchy. Next thing you know, you'll have dealers taking current model year guitars and just saying they are used in order to internet advertise them for less. Are we going to start seeing the 30th anniversary guitars showing up as used from dealers? This just opens a can of worms that needs to be shut for the protection of the consumer and for the protection of other dealers. You'll see dealers using this tactic to undercut other dealers.

 

[shinksma]

Anyways, I can't believe PRS is actually letting dealers do this. Its very sketchy.

Well, as I mentioned, I don't think Dave's is actually doing anything against the PRS MAP policy even if they described the guitars as "new" - the guitars are not 2015 nor 2014 models, so the policy doesn't apply (as far as I interpret it - IANAL).

Yes, if a dealer was selling off 2015 models as "used" and advertising for well below MAP, PRS would be annoyed and would have a legal basis for all kinds of action. But Dave's isn't doing this, AFAICT.

Also, note that PRS allows a dealer to sell for whatever they want, they just can't advertise or list on their website below the associated MAP for current or previous year models. So I can buy a 2015 CU24 for $100 if Dave's is willing to take the loss - we just have to negotiate during the purchase process - which can be as simple as I add the guitar to my cart and the price is adjusted to $100!

Oh, and it is possible Dave's negotiated with PRS so that they could sell these as "used" and eliminate the warranty, which saves PRS from having too much "Contingent Liabilities" to report financially - maybe PRS refunded Dave's half of their typical Warranty-related Contingent Liabilities for each specimen, and Dave's reduces their price accordingly. Despite what we all feel about these beasties, and how much we love discovering "NOS", they are just another product in a supply chain, and Old Stock is usually not useful for anyone. So PRS probably encourages such actions.

 

[bodia]

Well, as I mentioned, I don't think Dave's is actually doing anything against the PRS MAP policy even if they described the guitars as "new" - the guitars are not 2015 nor 2014 models, so the policy doesn't apply (as far as I interpret it - IANAL).

Agree 100%

Oh, and it is possible Dave's negotiated with PRS so that they could sell these as "used" and eliminate the warranty, which saves PRS from having too much "Contingent Liabilities" to report financially - maybe PRS refunded Dave's half of their typical Warranty-related Contingent Liabilities for each specimen, and Dave's reduces their price accordingly. Despite what we all feel about these beasties, and how much we love discovering "NOS", they are just another product in a supply chain, and Old Stock is usually not useful for anyone. So PRS probably encourages such actions.

This makes perfect sense. To relate (and I'll try to be brief). Fifteen years ago I ran the local Distribution center for the company that I currently work for. We ordered our own equipment for our Sales force to sell in the surrounding geographic area. We ordered based on forecasts and trends. The equipment comes in, goes on the shelf, and HQ pays for it. Since each area has their own P&L and Financial plan, the local area doesn't absorb the cost of that equipment until we sell it. However, if it's in inventory for 12 months, HQ passed 50% of the cost back to the area. At 15 months we took another 25% hit, and finally after 18 months our area would have absorbed the full cost of the equipment. Now it's "off" of HQ's books and I have paid for something that's still sitting on the shelf. Whatever I can sell it for now the local area gets. Usually this was at a discounted rate from MSRP, and hopefully for more than cost. The only stipulation, we couldn't sell it as new, even if it was in the box with a zero meter. It had to be listed as Demo, Trial, or Used equipment. Part of this was to appease the rest of the dealer network that we weren't selling new equipment at a drastically reduced price.

At any rate, this sounds very similar. If you're looking for something at a great price, and don't mind it not being "fresh", it's great for the consumer. The only downside, and question, is with respect to warranty. I called Willcutts (that was where I saw the 2 DGT's listed as used, but never sold) and inquired as to why no warranty if they were never sold. Their reply with that they got them from a shop that was going out of business, so they could not offer the warranty.

 

[Huggy Love]

I can see this thread is being diverted to the NOS conversation, which is cool because I'm looking at the Korina Mccarty stock they have, just really torn over what finish to go with if I do purchase one (maybe I'll make a thread about it). Just wanted to say that a guy over at Dave's named Tyler really knows his inventory well and took the time to look at a couple pieces I was considering, haven't decided yet or if I will pick up one but he was really helpful.

 

[SlimB79]

Looks like Dave's added some new PRS stock recently. Maybe they heard our cries? Oh and maybe you might be interested in the $225,000 gibson mandolin or $90,000 Martin acoustic or those pre CBS strats! Wow they have been busy, haha!

 

[BALIstic]

I live in the suburbs of a city of about 1.3mil people. There are about 4-5 shops that carry core PRS guitars. The most PRS stock any of them is holding would be five guitars including S/H. I visited them all before making my purchase.

On the S/H market people want new prices.

Makes shopping online line the only real option.

What I'd give to walk into a Daves, GC, Sam Ash or Wendy's, Taco Bell, White Castle (no idea what this one is) or Dunkin Donut.......mmmmm

You Yankmericans have got it good.

 

[BALIstic]

And further to shinksma's post above it also means he can sell them to overseas customers. If only our $$$ was what it was a little over 12 months ago.....I could have got two PRSZ for what I payed for my Paul's in today's money.,

 

[radiomatts]

They also sell through Amazon. Good place. I forced Guitar Center to price match them on an SE SC245 this afternoon!

 

[GS1]

You Yankmericans have got it good.

I totally agree, and many of us forget how good. Regarding White Castle however, you're better off not knowing!