You’ve made good points, and I agree with a lot of what you’ve said.
Again though, I don’t have a problem with SEs being less expensive, or made overseas. I just think that there is a stark difference between them and Core models. I attribute this mainly to the fact that they use different materials, but I do believe that the fact that SEs are manufactured by a third party company plays some part in the differences. I would very much like to see if the Maryland plant were to manufacture a batch of guitars with the exact same materials used on a batch of SEs made overseas, if the two batches would be indistinguishable from each other.
But, as I have only played Korean made SEs from World Music, I realize that I really need to get my hands on some made at their new Cor-Tek facility. I was pretty close to buying a new DGT SE (gold of course), but based on a few quality control issues that have been pointed out to me, I think I’ll wait a bit and see if those issues get resolved.
I don’t take issue with SEs having Paul’s signature on them. I was just pointing out that he fought doing so for years because he personally wanted to keep the import models easily distinguishable from the Core models. My assumption is that he eventually became satisfied that the quality was up to the standards that he considered “worthy” of his signature.
And I don’t have any issues with SEs in general. They are very well made import guitars…as I’ve said, I believe that they’re the best out there for their price.
As to your examples above, I think you have to take it on a brand by brand distinction:
I have no experience with Schecter import or USA, so I cannot speak about their quality.
The only Ibanez that I own and have spent real time with are from the 80s and 90s, and they are all Japanese built. I have picked a few off of the walls over the years from their factories from Korea and Indonesia, and they feel very different to me in terms of quality and response from the older guitars. But that’s a pretty small sample size.
Gibson makes it the easiest by the fact that a Gibson is US, and any Epiphone made after the early 60s is an import. I’ve owned maybe 20 Gibsons, ranging from the 1930s to 2010, and while some have issues, I’ve always found them rather different from how their Epiphone counterparts play and feel. I’ve yet to feel a modern Epiphone that I’d want over a Gibson, although I hear a lot of people are dissatisfied with modern Gibsons.
I’ve played Mexican and Japanese Fenders that I prefer over USA made ones. Not custom shop, or Master built per se, but examples that I prefer over their “Standard” series. Fender has their own shops in Mexico and Japan nowadays, and I don’t believe any of the Japanese companies still contract out their guitars, like back in the day. I have no idea where Squires are made in Indonesia or China, but nowadays, they offer a darn good product for really affordable prices. But they’re not a “good” as SEs by a decent margin. I feel like the Japanese and Mexican Fenders can be of equal quality, and some of the Japanese I’ve played I feel are actually better than SEs.
In my very limited experience with S2s, I actually preferred the SEs that were in stock at that particular shop. I would like to play a few more, as I really was dissatisfied with those S2’s I played that day.
Again, I consider Core PRS to be among the best guitars ever made, and they are the most consistent guitar I’ve ever played. I have never owned or played an SE that I could swap for a Core and be satisfied. Nor have I ever picked up an SE and thought that it was built at the same factory as a Core was built, whereas I have felt that way with Mexican and Japanese Fenders.
I'd expect an SE to cost a LOT more if it was built in Maryland in the exact same way, same materials etc and would likely sound/feel exactly thae same - whether you'd 'feel' different just because its made in US instead. The S2 is perhaps the closest to a US SE, yet that has the same Pups etc as an SE to keep the costs down. It's only when you get to 'Bolt-On' range that you get 'Made in US' Pups as standard.
Of course an SE is NOT a Core. Its built differently for a start to keep those costs down. It doesn't have the same thickness Maple Cap, it has Scarf joint necks and multi piece bodies, different finish etc but that doesn't stop it being a 'PRS'. You can go by a made in China Ibanez RG, a Made in Korea RG or a Made in Japan RG but they are ALL Ibanez Guitars - regardless of whether you 'personally' can only bond with Japanese built guitars.
I don't care what you play, what you have experienced, what you prefer, but you are WRONG to think an SE is NOT a PRS because they are built exclusively for PRS to sell as PRS Guitars! Cores are Superb quality instruments built without 'compromise'. As you move down to 'Bolt-On', you may get some 'import' parts, but you'll certainly get a scarfed neck as it saves time/money to sell 'cheaper'. The S2 range too has 'compromises' to sell it even cheaper but you'll end up with more 'Import' parts - still PRS designed parts, just not made in the US.
You came in here saying that SE's are NOT PRS guitars when they ARE. Just because they don't feel like a Core, a guitar built without any Compromise to sell at a 'low' price point, doesn't make them 'NOT' PRS guitars. If you can't 'bond' with a cheaper version, that is something only you need to explore - what it is about other Instruments that really help you 'bond' with them. It maybe that the Scarf neck makes a difference to YOU, but that doesn't mean its an issue for everyone and stops them from bonding with an Instrument. Another may only bond with 'Nitro' finishes, or feel that Satin finishes are more 'magical' to them and find any Poly finish prevents them from bonding because they don't get the same 'feel'.
SE allows people to get a Custom 24, DGT, 594, Holcomb, Silver Sky etc guitars at a 'fraction' of the cost.
What makes a Guitar more magical to you? You have to work that out because that is 'personal' to you. I can walk into a Shop with a 100 Gibson R9's and go through 'every' one to try and find one that resonates 'more' with me despite them ALL having the exact same Specs on Paper. The one I think is the worst may well be anothers 'magic' guitar and that's in the 'high-end' tier too. Point is, what makes one more Magical to 'ME' is very personal to me. Another could turn around and say their Epiphone sounds, feels and/or plays better - because to them, it may well be the case. It doesn't mean that I should 'bond' with an Epiphone because I much prefer the R9.
The lower the asking price, the more they have compromised to hit that price point - but that doesn't stop them being 'PRS' guitars - they are still PRS, just not 'Core' guitars built without Compromise to hit lower price points to make them more accessibleto a much wider range of musicians. Even a Bolt-on Cu24 isn't quite the same as a Core Cu24 with its maple Scarfed bolt-on neck and import Bridge and a S2 too will have more 'compromises' - Import Pups so the 'only' thing left to 'compromise' is the labour/overhead costs to sell at 'lower' than S2 prices.
There are so many musicians that have been asking PRS when they will do an SE Silver Sky or SE 594 or SE DGT etc because they cannot afford (or justify spending) that much on a Guitar when all they really want is a Fantastic Musical Instrument that they can rely on, sounds Great (especially in a band mix), feels comfortable to play and does the Job they want. Its still upto PRS and ONLY PRS can decide if they want to release 'SE' versions. Just watch the Series about the DGT SE and then try and tell me that the SE is a 'Cortek', not a guitar that Dave Grissom and PRS collaborated on to ensure its as close to a Core as they can get at that price point and until they got it there, would not put their name (PRS & DG) to it.
Whether 'you' bond with the SE DGT vs a Core is irrelevant, they are at very different ends of the PRS range - but they are PRS guitars regardless. The 'issues' are yours and part of that musical journey to understand what it is that you 'prefer' in an instrument that makes a difference to you. Some may not even hear/feel enough of a difference to care but a 'Core' is a 'high-end' instrument, built without Compromise to be the 'best' production guitar they can make. The rest are all varying degrees of 'Compromises' to sell at 'lower' costs - like Scarf necks to reduce waste and time, using import parts and/or Labour are other examples - but they are ALL PRS guitars which is what you Originally came here to argue about.
They are NOT cores, not trying to 'replace' cores etc, they are built to be more Affordable versions. To get as 'close' as they can for a LOT less cost - and to use your own words, they get '80%' there for less than 25% of the cost, or in other words, that 'extra' 20% is where the extra 75%+ cost is incurred. So its up to you to decide whether you would rather spend '4x' more for that 'little' extra or whether that '20%' is not worth the extra. I know I wouldn't buy a Core 12 String or 7string for that 1 time I may need a 12/7 string - an SE version would be perfect for that. I started on an Epiphone Les Paul Custom and my 'Dream' guitar was a Gibson Les Paul Custom. If my Dream had been a Cu24 at the time, there was NO way I could get a cheaper import version and yes my Epiphone also had 'Gibson' on the Headstock on the TRC and everyone knew it was a 'Cheap' import Gibson anyway because everyone knows that 'Epiphone' is Gibsons designated import range - just like SE is PRS designated import range today...
