PRS SE Models - Do They Have the Same “Essence” As Core Models?

[( . )( . )]

It's been really disappointing to me too. Se historically have been very consistent, and one reason I'm a PRS player. The se has line has blown up, hence PRS doing all they did with the factory. I am fortunate to have a few shops that get a good amount of PRS, sell a fair amount, and restock regularly. As a bonus my schedule allows the flexibility to check out shops more than I probably should. I get to play all through the lines and do decent amount of A/B.

Besides, my experience, there's been more posts lately about issues. To the extreme that some even call fake on genuine PRS se. The electronics issues, I've come to accept. I don't think it should happen, but often some dexoit cures the issue. Shouldn't have to do that, but not the end of the world. Then I noticed fret work issues on more and more. Some fret ends, definitely weren't what I've come to expect and love about PRS. The last batch, the blues (2 guitars), aren't what I'd call blue, more plus or blurple. In real life the difference is even more..

I truly hope PRS sorts this issues out. I'm a huge fan and love me some se, especially for a modding platform, but at this price point and through this process there shouldn't be the issues being reported and experienced.

I suppose that I’ve not actually played a Cor-Tek SE…only those made by World Music. The most modern one I actually owned was a 2017 CU24 (that I gifted to my nephew), and it was a very nice example.

I will say that most of what I’ve read has been that the newer SEs are excellent and “better than ever”, but maybe I’ve only been reading fluff pieces rather than actual customer feedback. If the quality control is indeed less than before the new factory was built, that is not good at all.

You obviously have a lot of hands-on experience with instruments instruments made at both factories, and I am troubled to read what you’re finding. And yeah - those 2 are blurple from what I see…especially the singlecut.

 

[GADonis]

IMHO, PRS design and PRS specifications make it a PRS guitar regardless of where it is manufactured.

 

[( . )( . )]

Regardless of that, who owns all the designs, the patents etc? They are still listed on the Official PRS website as part of the PRS 'range' of instruments - along with S2, Bolt-ons, Cores and Private Stock. Numerous Amps (MT15/HDRX20) are now being made overseas to keep costs down too but the 'design' and circuits are all PRS. The Pups are all built to PRS specifications too.

That Signature is a Trademark, like the Birds or Headstock shape/design. Do you say Apple Products for example aren't really 'Apple' as they are made in China? The fact that 'everything' was designed by Apple, still makes it an Apple.

If you know about SE's, you'd also know that PRS felt it was important to be honest about where these are made - hence it states very clearly these are made 'under licence' on the back of the Headstock. Much like Marvel may 'Licence' their Spider-Man logo to some 'overseas' company to manufacture Official Licenced Spider-Man Merchandise or even PRS working with US manufacturers to make 'Official' PRS accessories/Merchandise. Their Leather Guitar Straps aren't 'made' by PRS, yet have PRS trademarks and are 'considered' as PRS Straps - same with Cables, Strings etc. If you found out that D'Addario had the Licence to make PRS Guitar Strings from a very specific alloy and soldered Ball ends, not available in their 'own' range of Strings, would you say PRS strings are just D'Addario?

I know that Paul himself made sure to differentiate SEs from Core models for many years. At first, he didn’t allow any maple to be used on the bodies. Then only veneers. And the signature thing. It’s as if he wanted to make it very clear that the guitars were not the same thing, until I suppose he was eventually satisfied that the quality was good enough for his seal of approval. Either that, or the money just became too good, and he said, “Screw It. You can have my signature.” That’s a joke btw.

 

[SinSir]

I will say that most of what I’ve read has been that the newer SEs are excellent and “better than ever”, but maybe I’ve only been reading fluff pieces rather than actual customer feedback. If the quality control is indeed less than before the new factory was built, that is not good at all.

Plenty of positive praise for se out there for sure! The trend seems to be more issues, even if only a leaser percentage of praise. My concern is there never really used to be issues, and I hope it doesn't become a thing. That's not PRS, consistency in quality across the board is PRS, regardless of where it was made.

It was one thing when it was pretty much just electronics, but lately it's dipped into several aspects and seems to rotate from batch to batch. The 594 comes to mind. At first I was like what the? on a batch, but the next batch I was pleasantly pleased, and thought maybe I should take one home. It was a very unPRS feeling.

I'm confident PRS will sort it out. They are a dang good company that makes great guitars with an obvious vision for the se line to be part of the growth.

 

[( . )( . )]

Plenty of positive praise for se out there for sure! The trend seems to be more issues, even if only a leaser percentage of praise. My concern is there never really used to be issues, and I hope it doesn't become a thing. That's not PRS, consistency in quality across the board is PRS, regardless of where it was made.

It was one thing when it was pretty much just electronics, but lately it's dipped into several aspects and seems to rotate from batch to batch. The 594 comes to mind. At first I was like what the? on a batch, but the next batch I was pleasantly pleased, and thought maybe I should take one home. It was a very unPRS feeling.

I'm confident PRS will sort it out. They are a dang good company that makes great guitars with an obvious vision for the se line to be part of the growth.

I’m glad to hear that there’s still a lot of positivity with the newer SEs, even if there are some newer issues. From what I can tell of Paul himself, he won’t stand for that for long, so it’ll likely get sorted.

Maybe, as they attempt to build higher end models (such as the 594), it’s harder to get things “right” than say on a lower end model. So they’re experiencing some growing pains.

 

[RickP]

I’d like to say that the level or designation doesn’t affect me, but you could prove me wrong just looking around my music space. I’m a core snob, plain and simple. I’ve bought exactly one SE, for my adult daughter who is learning guitar, and is therefore the target audience of a “Student Edition.” Very nice guitar, by the way, and she loves it. Technically, my NF3 is a Bolt-On series, which I think is more a division within core guitars than anything… there were bolt neck PRSs from before anything was not American made PRS.

I’m not knocking SE or S2 guitars, or saying anyone who plays them is/isn‘t something because of it. I’m saying that TO ME nothing feels like a core in my hands and head except a core, so that’s what I buy. If you like an S2 or SE as well or better than a core or higher, then by all means enjoy the bargain! While I admit I’d rather they named them something else (Smith Guitars or something other than PRS) to keep the original line its own thing, they do clearly mark them as what they are.

Im sure that, if I gigged an S2, I’d like it a lot. But the truth is that’ll never happen short of a gifted guitar because I always buy a core or bolt-on version because I know they’ll be 100% up to my expectation of what happens when I pick up a PRS.

Yes, it’s silly in some respects. And absolutely human in others. But it’s an ingredient in my playing comfortably and confidently, and I make better music when I feel that way, so it’s an internal monster I don’t mind feeding. To the OP, yes SEs and S2s are PRS guitars, legally or otherwise. But they’re not PRS core guitars. If it matters to you, you’re in plenty of like-minded company, as it matters to a lot of people. As long as they hold the line on quality on the cores, I’m happy.

CAD amps come to mind, but hijacking threads is discouraged.

 

[SinSir]

So they’re experiencing some growing pains.

I absolutely say this to myself. A victim of their popularity while trying to keep up with demand in a post covid world where staffing and adequate training has its challenges to meet those demands at a high level of expectation.

 

[Mozzi]

Do you know if the wood is sourced from the same places? I know PRS gets wood from all over the place, but I wonder if the SE line gets the same as US.

I doubt it - they would have their own Wood suppliers and contacts. I doubt they are using 'true' Mahogany for example -more like Indian/Indonesian 'Mahogany' which has a similar grain/colour but isn't a 'true' Mahogany. There are so many species of Maple. most in Asia so I expect them to use Asian woods to keep the costs down - no point in Importing Honduran Mahogany - especially not in the sizes required to build 1 piece bodies or Canadian Maple either - especially not flamed/quilted and thick enough to make an 'SE' top.

When I started, PRS SE's were not an option. A PRS was an 'inspirational/dream' instrument - a guitar you'd want to be 'good enough' and/or famous enough to be able to afford one. When I started, most of the gigging bands I saw in pubs/clubs had Epiphones instead of Gibsons because they couldn't afford to buy a Gibson and these were Guitars you aspired to own, the 'when I make it, when I get signed etc guitars.

The whole reason PRS started the SE line was because of Carlos Santana, who was constantly being asked when a more affordable guitar would release, one that Students could afford, could learn and even start recording/gigging with. Since then, I'd say the difference between Core and SE range has got a lot closer, but its still not 'exactly' the same due to 'compromises' to keep the Cost down. I doubt they use the same 'Plastics' on their Bobbins for example - but whether that 'really' matters or an intelligent Compromise will depend on the individual. Obviously they use a Scarf neck construction as that is much less 'waste' material (more Guitars for the same quantity of Wood) and much quicker to make a stable neck - again a 'smart' compromise to keep costs down for 'you' or contributes to them not quite having the same feel.

Even the Finish on the neck is different. Now, they use Nitro over CAB so that too can contribute to a different 'feel'.

Also there could be some Psychological reason you can't gel with SE's - knowing they were made overseas, knowing they are built to sell at a 'low' price point etc so can never 'feel/sound' etc like a Core instead of feeling how remarkably close they get considering they cost less than 1/4 of the price, how amazing it is to be able to get close to a DGT, a Cu24 etc for a fraction of the cost...

 

[( . )( . )]

I feel pretty much the same as you. I’ve owned 4 SE models, and all of them became gifts to friends and family. That said, I wouldn’t give my friends or family something that I thought was crappy…but just like you, I just didn’t feel like they were up to the standards of PRSi to which I had grown accustomed.

I’ve owned 5 core models, and 3 of them are among my favorite guitars ever. I’ve owned at least 100 guitars in my time (I’ve got bad GAS), ranging from the 1920s to the 2020s, and my number 1 of all time is my 2011 CU22. It’s far from my most expensive guitar, but it’s not about the price to me.

As far as S2s are concerned, I’ve only played a handful of them at a Sam Ash maybe 8 years ago. I really didn’t like what I felt then, and I actually preferred their selection of SEs at that store. But that’s a very limited experience from a long time ago, so I am not qualified to make any judgements.

 

[( . )( . )]

I doubt it - they would have their own Wood suppliers and contacts. I doubt they are using 'true' Mahogany for example -more like Indian/Indonesian 'Mahogany' which has a similar grain/colour but isn't a 'true' Mahogany. There are so many species of Maple. most in Asia so I expect them to use Asian woods to keep the costs down - no point in Importing Honduran Mahogany - especially not in the sizes required to build 1 piece bodies or Canadian Maple either - especially not flamed/quilted and thick enough to make an 'SE' top.

When I started, PRS SE's were not an option. A PRS was an 'inspirational/dream' instrument - a guitar you'd want to be 'good enough' and/or famous enough to be able to afford one. When I started, most of the gigging bands I saw in pubs/clubs had Epiphones instead of Gibsons because they couldn't afford to buy a Gibson and these were Guitars you aspired to own, the 'when I make it, when I get signed etc guitars.

The whole reason PRS started the SE line was because of Carlos Santana, who was constantly being asked when a more affordable guitar would release, one that Students could afford, could learn and even start recording/gigging with. Since then, I'd say the difference between Core and SE range has got a lot closer, but its still not 'exactly' the same due to 'compromises' to keep the Cost down. I doubt they use the same 'Plastics' on their Bobbins for example - but whether that 'really' matters or an intelligent Compromise will depend on the individual. Obviously they use a Scarf neck construction as that is much less 'waste' material (more Guitars for the same quantity of Wood) and much quicker to make a stable neck - again a 'smart' compromise to keep costs down for 'you' or contributes to them not quite having the same feel.

Even the Finish on the neck is different. Now, they use Nitro over CAB so that too can contribute to a different 'feel'.

Also there could be some Psychological reason you can't gel with SE's - knowing they were made overseas, knowing they are built to sell at a 'low' price point etc so can never 'feel/sound' etc like a Core instead of feeling how remarkably close they get considering they cost less than 1/4 of the price, how amazing it is to be able to get close to a DGT, a Cu24 etc for a fraction of the cost...

You know - it’s likely the scarf joint that’s a big part of my issue. To me, the neck is where I feel the resonance, vibration, and “soul” of an instrument, and all of my top guitars have single piece necks (usually mahogany). This had not occurred to me, and I know it sounds like a small thing…but it might really be a thing for me.

Psychologically, I believe that I’m okay with SEs being built overseas. I’ve owned and enjoyed everything from Golden Era Martins down to Harley Bentons, so I don’t think it’s a price thing. And again, I think that SEs are great instruments overall. But I think that some of the Cores are almost magical.

 

[SinSir]

my number 1 of all time is my 2011 CU22. It’s far from my most expensive guitar, but it’s not about the price to me.

I notice multiple people citing 2011 as a number 1 of all time. Your the 3rd in about as many days. My 2011 Cu24 is easily Papa Smurf at my house. I'm not sure what pixie dust PRS was using in 2011, but I'm high on it..

 

[( . )( . )]

I notice multiple people citing 2011 as a number 1 of all time. Your the 3rd in about as many days. My 2011 Cu24 is easily Papa Smurf at my house. I'm not sure what pixie dust PRS was using in 2011, but I'm high on it..

Very interesting…I believe that they changed things around that time, like the blade switch and V12 finish. Mine was built a bit before that though…it had been converted to McCarty wiring before I got it. I’ve considered going back to the 5 way selector knob, but I’m pretty darn happy with it as is.

Here it is - hanging right next to my bed, so I can grab it whenever. The 1984 Hamer is my current #2.

 

[Mozzi]

You know - it’s likely the scarf joint that’s a big part of my issue. To me, the neck is where I feel the resonance, vibration, and “soul” of an instrument, and all of my top guitars have single piece necks (usually mahogany). This had not occurred to me, and I know it sounds like a small thing…but it might really be a thing for me.

Psychologically, I believe that I’m okay with SEs being built overseas. I’ve owned and enjoyed everything from Golden Era Martins down to Harley Bentons, so I don’t think it’s a price thing. And again, I think that SEs are great instruments overall. But I think that some of the Cores are almost magical.

They are superb instruments in their Price Range and I think, some of the best Instruments you can buy if you don't have the budget to spend more. You shouldn't really be comparing it to a Core - a guitar that costs more than 4x the price - you should really compare to the 'equivalent' guitars in that same price point. If you have to step up to a Core to get 'everything' you want, even find Magical guitars to you, that is going to come at a much higher Cost.

I would say I can 'hear' a difference between SE and Core - especially clean and without any backing tracks but in a mix, those differences are not really that noticeable and the Audience won't know the difference. I'm in a position where I can afford to buy a Core and to me, all those 'little' differences, nuances etc is a big reason why I bought Cores. If I can only afford an SE, then I'm not going to be comparing against Cores that are well above my Budget, I'm going to be comparing to the 'other' predominantly Asian imports you can buy in that price bracket. Its like comparing an Epiphone to a Gibson R9 Custom Shop and expecting the Epiphone to 'feel' exactly the same or being Disappointed that Gibson isn't significantly better to justify its asking price...

What you aren't getting is a 'generic' Cort guitar with Generic Pups, Generic hardware etc - just 'looks' like a PRS. Everything on these is bespoke to PRS and made 'exclusively' for PRS.

Maybe youdo feel that a one piece neck is 'key' to finding a magical instrument, but that again comes with a higher cost. If that's the case, then you'll only get that from PRS at Core or above - their S2/Bolt-ons are Scarf necks too - again part of the reason these can be made at a 'lower' cost than Core...

 

[László]

If your argument is that the guitar has to have more of a shot at being magic to qualify as a PRS, no need to compare Core and SE.

Just order yourself a Private Stock, and you'll be even more likely to find one that's magic. I've had ten times more Cores than PS, and in my experience there's a substantial difference -- my PS models bring the magic in every way.

But so what - that comparison doesn't make Core models children of a lesser god. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a Core 'deserves' to be called a PRS or not.

An SE deserves to be called a PRS because PRS gave it that name. That's all that needs to happen, it's their exclusive right to decide. Not anyone else's.

I've got no dog in this hunt. I've never owned an SE, and it's unlikely I would. But that hardly matters, that's just a statement of personal preference.

 

[( . )( . )]

They are superb instruments in their Price Range and I think, some of the best Instruments you can buy if you don't have the budget to spend more. You shouldn't really be comparing it to a Core - a guitar that costs more than 4x the price - you should really compare to the 'equivalent' guitars in that same price point. If you have to step up to a Core to get 'everything' you want, even find Magical guitars to you, that is going to come at a much higher Cost.

I would say I can 'hear' a difference between SE and Core - especially clean and without any backing tracks but in a mix, those differences are not really that noticeable and the Audience won't know the difference. I'm in a position where I can afford to buy a Core and to me, all those 'little' differences, nuances etc is a big reason why I bought Cores. If I can only afford an SE, then I'm not going to be comparing against Cores that are well above my Budget, I'm going to be comparing to the 'other' predominantly Asian imports you can buy in that price bracket. Its like comparing an Epiphone to a Gibson R9 Custom Shop and expecting the Epiphone to 'feel' exactly the same or being Disappointed that Gibson isn't significantly better to justify its asking price...

What you aren't getting is a 'generic' Cort guitar with Generic Pups, Generic hardware etc - just 'looks' like a PRS. Everything on these is bespoke to PRS and made 'exclusively' for PRS.

Maybe youdo feel that a one piece neck is 'key' to finding a magical instrument, but that again comes with a higher cost. If that's the case, then you'll only get that from PRS at Core or above - their S2/Bolt-ons are Scarf necks too - again part of the reason these can be made at a 'lower' cost than Core...

See, I’ve never paid anywhere close to 4x for a Core model. I generally buy them from Craigslist, and the most I’ve ever paid is $1750 for a 1991 CU24 Ten Top with birds and a sweet switch. My number 1 (the above listed CU22 Ten Top) cost me $1400 about 4 years ago. My McCarty Standard cost $925. I know that these are really good deals, and it takes a lot of effort to find them at these prices, but as long as they’re out there, I can’t see a reason to not buy them over SEs. I suppose some people want new guitars, but I’m not in that camp.

 

[Lewguitar]

See, I’ve never paid anywhere close to 4x for a Core model. I generally buy them from Craigslist, and the most I’ve ever paid is $1750 for a 1991 CU24 Ten Top with birds and a sweet switch. My number 1 (the above listed CU22 Ten Top) cost me $1400 about 4 years ago. My McCarty Standard cost $925. I know that these are really good deals, and it takes a lot of effort to find them at these prices, but as long as they’re out there, I can’t see a reason to not buy them over SEs. I suppose some people want new guitars, but I’m not in that camp.

Only new PRS guitars I've bought new are my SE Silver Skys.

My '95 CU22, '95 CE22, '97 CE22, '00 CE22 and '02 CU22 were all purchased or traded for used.

Of course all of my SE Bernie Marsdens were purchased used.

They seem "special" to me. Like PRS in Korea put a little more thought, time and craftsmanship into them.

My other SE Singlecuts all got sold after I bought my first Bernie.

 

[( . )( . )]

If your argument is that the guitar has to have more of a shot at being magic to qualify as a PRS, no need to compare Core and SE.

Just order yourself a Private Stock, and you'll be even more likely to find one that's magic. I've had ten times more Cores than PS, and in my experience there's a substantial difference -- my PS models bring the magic in every way.

But so what - that comparison doesn't make Core models children of a lesser god. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a Core 'deserves' to be called a PRS or not.

An SE deserves to be called a PRS because PRS gave it that name. That's all that needs to happen, it's their exclusive right to decide. Not anyone else's.

I've got no dog in this hunt. I've never owned an SE, and it's unlikely I would. But that hardly matters, that's just a statement of personal preference.

If you look at the above at the prices I’ve paid for my Core models. I’m nowhere near the PS prices…much closer to S2/SE prices.

That said, if the PS really are that much better than Core models, I’d love to try one. The issues that I have with them (besides the prices) are that if you’re looking in the used market, you have to get what someone else ordered, and often it wouldn’t be what I choose.

Honestly, I’ve considered ordering a new PS, but what I’d choose would be so “boring” that the price wouldn’t be at all justified. I’d get moons, and an opaque finish on a slab hog body…so basically an old Standard, but with a wide/thin and a solid rosewood neck. I can’t see paying over 8K for that.

Just to be clear, Paul himself really gave them his name a few years ago. Until 2017, it was pretty evident that a PRS SE and a Paul Reed Smith were different, and that was Paul’s doing. Again, I don’t know what changed in his mind, but I assume that he was finally happy enough with the quality that he was willing to put his signature them.

 

[( . )( . )]

Only new PRS guitars I've bought new are my SE Silver Skys.

My '95 CU22, '95 CE22, '97 CE22, '00 CE22 and '02 CU22 were all purchased or traded for used.

Of course all of my SE Bernie Marsdens were purchased used.

They seem "special" to me. Like PRS in Korea put a little more thought, time and craftsmanship into them.

My other SE Singlecuts all got sold after I bought my first Bernie.

Maybe I should try one of those models. They have never been on my radar, but I’ll add them to my watch lists. Thanks.

Of your multiple CE-22s, do you have a preference that can be attributed to production year? I have only owned 1 - a 1997 CE-24. It’s a great sounding instrument, but I don’t feel it’s as nice as my CUs. I am a fan of the neck on that guitar though…just a bit heavy, and slightly less resonant than my others.

 

[DougGuitar]

Paul put his name on the SE guitars.

Which is saying that he approves of the SE guitars. It seems that there is only one person on this thread that thinks that SE and Core models are or should be the same. Hint: the price difference!

 

[Lewguitar]

Maybe I should try one of those models. They have never been on my radar, but I’ll add them to my watch lists. Thanks.

They are fine stock.

But all five of mine have been upgraded with PRS 57/08 or other boutique pickups.

I've also upgraded the tuners to locking tuners from John Mann, and three have John's adjustable aluminum and brass bridge/tailpiece and two have the PRS Paul bridge.

Those upgrades, especially the pickup upgrades, made them into totally professional instruments.

My favorite:

https://imgur.com/468IVxF

My other favorite:

https://imgur.com/fuydfm0

All four of my other favorites:

https://imgur.com/P6dGcWy