My tuning stability issue with PRS Custom 22 SE

[Aether]

I’d suggest reading through John Mann’s instructions for his replacement bridge install. As you noted, there can be a difference in the screw dimensions between the SE and the Phase II Core screws (which John’s screws are identical replacements for), so he gives specific instructions on drilling out the holes to the proper width/depth for the threaded and non-threaded portions of the screws.

PDF:
http://www.mannmadeusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010-VintageVibrato-Mounting-Instructions-Rev-C.pdf

Video:

 

[LilyLazer]

[...] As you noted, there can be a difference in the screw dimensions between the SE and the Phase II Core screws (which John’s screws are identical replacements for), so he gives specific instructions on drilling out the holes to the proper width/depth for the threaded and non-threaded portions of the screws.

For Phase II Core screws you mean Gen II screws?

 

[Johno800]

I'm seeing this picture. It's hard to see and say if there some important difference between the notch of the two screws. Maybe it's a bit different, maybe the USA is just made well and it will be even better? it's enough for me if those screws fit at 100%.
A thing I can notice is the PRS USA is longer.
I need some information about the compatibility between the screws USA and SE and if there would be a need to make holes a little deeper.
Thanks

In response to tuning issues there are a few issues with PRS floating bridge, one is on the string mounting block, it has a tapered hole and allows the strings to go too far up towards the bridge plate, this means the ferrule secure string wrap hits the back of the bridge plate, so everything looks fine but as you tighten the string it will compress the string wind and you will get slip etc, where the fender has two different sized holes so leaves a shelf to stop the ferrule half way so the string wrap is well clear of the bridge base plate, a quick fix is to glue washers over the holes to stop the ferrule entering the hole, the other issue is the break angle coming out of the baseplate, this also snags the strings on return, it's not a good design really and to make good really needs a lot of modification in the workshop unfortunately

 

[LilyLazer]

I bought new screws: Gen II, but it looks like the PRS SE in the picture, like the original ones. Is that weird?
So, I mounted the bridge with the new screws. Same string gauge, I set the screws height with a 1.5mm Allen key and bridge height is about 0.7mm. But the problem is still there.
A bit better, the bridge seems return in position if I push the bar (even if I got all the strings pitched up while before it was just the g string and If I stretch the strings one by one they back in tune), but if I push down softly the bridge I can see it stay down. And this pitch up all the strings.

I seen the string wrap almost out of the hole in the bridge. Indeed my luthier to try to solve the g string problem I mentioned before had cut a bit or wrap of a new g string, but the g string issue was still there.

Do you think the problem of the bridge could be that the bridge is too much low?

 

[swede71]

What a mess Lilylazer!My only advice to you is to start all over and use PRS setup recommendation as a starting point plus John Mann’s tremoIo setup.I understand you want a super low action but contrary to modern day guitar expertise I can guarantee you that bending strings are much easier with the strings a bit higher.I set my stringheight at 5/64 with a 9-42 set for all strings and that’s the lowest i can go for a good clear sound with a good grip for bending.When it comes to string gauge I think a 9-46 set would be a better choice for you.The wound strings from your 10,5-48 set can be used as nutfiles for low e,a and d nutslots.It takes a long time to really understand a floating tremolo and how to use it.Instead of just pushing it to lower pitch try a simple exercise with vibrato(it is a vibrato after all).Play a note and use finger vibrato,next you play the same note but get the vibrato with your floating tremolo.

 

[LilyLazer]

This guitar is really messed up, but I don't know what is it. Its setup was perfect before my luthier tried to do something with the bridge just to help me to adjust a minor issue with the g string, detune only at extreme use of the bar. Thing I don't use to do. Indeed I use the bar for light tremolo. But I wanted to fix that anyway, I thought initially the nut was the cause, probably it was. After checked the nut my luthier acted on the bridge.

I detuned the strings and tried to get the bridge a bit higher, it's about 0.8mm from the bass strings side. But as I noticed in the last time with the old screws the bridge is lower at the higher strings side, though the screws should be in line. Last time I even tried to set the screws of the higher strings side slightly higher then the others. The screws was by eye not in line, but the high strings side was still lower.

Anyway, I think I'll use 10-46 strings. I'll change the nut with a tusq nut, but meanwhile less thick strings can help with this nut.

 

[swede71]

Start with the tremolo,make sure you follow John Mann’s video.Next widen the nutslots and put some lubricant in the slots,pencil lead for example.Springs on and you will see the tremolo tilt back to the body.Press the bar and put something between tremolo and body,for example post-it notes,til you have the bridgeplate perpendicular to the body.Put a drop of light machine oil under every screw head.Next try to find something to block the tremoloblock with,for example a woodblock,eraser or a screw that you tape till you find the right dimension.Fu-tone has a great video about this.If tremolo is blocked when you put on the strings it will stay perpendicular to the body.When strings are on,tuned and stretched you adjust the stringheight with the saddles,tune again,adjust the trussrod if needed,intonate and remove the block for the tremolo.Now the tremolo will most likely tilt forward or backward depending on the springtension.Don’t panic,pluck the a-string and retune the tremolo with the 2 springplate screws.Easy peasy! \m/

 

[Johno800]

I bought new screws: Gen II, but it looks like the PRS SE in the picture, like the original ones. Is that weird?
So, I mounted the bridge with the new screws. Same string gauge, I set the screws height with a 1.5mm Allen key and bridge height is about 0.7mm. But the problem is still there.
A bit better, the bridge seems return in position if I push the bar (even if I got all the strings pitched up while before it was just the g string and If I stretch the strings one by one they back in tune), but if I push down softly the bridge I can see it stay down. And this pitch up all the strings.

I seen the string wrap almost out of the hole in the bridge. Indeed my luthier to try to solve the g string problem I mentioned before had cut a bit or wrap of a new g string, but the g string issue was still there.

Do you think the problem of the bridge could be that the bridge is too much low?

The screws should be set to 2.5mm or 3mm, but no lower than 2.5, which should give you a float of 1mm and if set to 3 mm it should float at 1.5m, if you didnt have an issue before your tech looked at it, then its his fault, he should resove it really, if you had no tuning issues before then its definitley something hes done.

 

[Draconomics]

This guitar is really messed up, but I don't know what is it. Its setup was perfect before my luthier tried to do something with the bridge just to help me to adjust a minor issue with the g string, detune only at extreme use of the bar. Thing I don't use to do. Indeed I use the bar for light tremolo. But I wanted to fix that anyway, I thought initially the nut was the cause, probably it was. After checked the nut my luthier acted on the bridge.

I detuned the strings and tried to get the bridge a bit higher, it's about 0.8mm from the bass strings side. But as I noticed in the last time with the old screws the bridge is lower at the higher strings side, though the screws should be in line. Last time I even tried to set the screws of the higher strings side slightly higher then the others. The screws was by eye not in line, but the high strings side was still lower.

Anyway, I think I'll use 10-46 strings. I'll change the nut with a tusq nut, but meanwhile less thick strings can help with this nut.

Get a new luthier. Do not let that joker near this guitar again. The fact he tried to adjust the fulcrum screws while under tension is inexcusable. If I was over there, dude would get some dragonfire from yours truly.

K, like I suggested before, take EVERYTHING apart. Reset the fulcrum screws, use a proper level to do it, and do replace the nut when you do this. Might as well since everything is off. Also, yes try lighter strings. Some guitars just do not agree with heavier tension sets of strings. Its one of those mystical aspects of the instrument. If you run into problems, find a new luthier or come here. Do not go back to that dude you had before. All this stuff is fixable, but there are certain things that arent, and if buddy does not know what he's doing, then we may be up the creek.

 

[LilyLazer]

Start with the tremolo,make sure you follow John Mann’s video.Next widen the nutslots and put some lubricant in the slots,pencil lead for example.Springs on and you will see the tremolo tilt back to the body.Press the bar and put something between tremolo and body,for example post-it notes,til you have the bridgeplate perpendicular to the body.Put a drop of light machine oil under every screw head.Next try to find something to block the tremoloblock with,for example a woodblock,eraser or a screw that you tape till you find the right dimension.Fu-tone has a great video about this.If tremolo is blocked when you put on the strings it will stay perpendicular to the body.When strings are on,tuned and stretched you adjust the stringheight with the saddles,tune again,adjust the trussrod if needed and remove the block for the tremolo.Now the tremolo will most likely tilt forward or backward depending on the springtension.Don’t panic,pluck the a-string and retune the tremolo with the 2 springplate screws.Easy peasy! \m/

Easy peasy? I guess I need some help, anyway.

The screws should be set to 2.5mm or 3mm, but no lower than 2.5, which should give you a float of 1mm and if set to 3 mm it should float at 1.5m, if you didnt have an issue before your tech looked at it, then its his fault, he should resove it really, if you had no tuning issues before then its definitley something hes done.

My old setup had the height of the bridge around 1mm, meybe a bit less. I don't remember, and the guitar had no issue (except the g string, I mentioned several time, but I think it was the nut).

Get a new luthier. Do not let that joker near this guitar again. The fact he tried to adjust the fulcrum screws while under tension is inexcusable. If I was over there, dude would get some dragonfire from yours truly.

K, like I suggested before, take EVERYTHING apart. Reset the fulcrum screws, use a proper level to do it, and do replace the nut when you do this. Might as well since everything is off. Also, yes try lighter strings. Some guitars just do not agree with heavier tension sets of strings. Its one of those mystical aspects of the instrument. If you run into problems, find a new luthier or come here. Do not go back to that dude you had before. All this stuff is fixable, but there are certain things that arent, and if buddy does not know what he's doing, then we may be up the creek.

I'll try the 10-46, more common, a bit cheaper, and used frequently in the PRS Custom USA and SE.
When the guitar worked fine the 10.5-48 are just a bit harder then my Stratocaster with 10-46, but the low action was good enough to play the PRS well, by my hand, of course.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Reading this, there’s a simple answer: Just take the guitar to a decent luthier.

Setting up a guitar isn’t as much of a black art as some people make out, especially if you understand how one works, but if you don’t (yet, and that’s fine) then it’s something you and your guitar tech have in common!

To be honest with you, at this point, continuing to guess what the problem is and also guess what the solutions might be seems really unproductive.

 

[swede71]

Setting up a PRS tremolo is more like setting up a Floyd Rose than a Fender.It’s not a black art as Uncle Bob said,just a step by step skill you will learn with time.I had my first stratcopy in 84 and it took me over a year to understand why the tremolo didn’t work.I had wiggled the trembar sideways instead of pressing up and down.