My tuning stability issue with PRS Custom 22 SE

[LilyLazer]

Hello,
I have a 2018 PRS Custom 22 SE. And I know it has sometime tuning stability problem.
I passed from the stock 9-42 strings to D'Addario 10.5-48 (werid gauge, I know).
My luthier set the bridge lower to get a lower action.
That was ok, I didn't notice before that, but I have with this guitar serious problem with the tuning. Not a string in particular, but the problem is with all the strings. I can't use the bar else I increase the pitch of all the strings.
If I don't have the bar and all the strings are in tune, if I slightly hit the bridge with the hand pushing down, even slightly, the tune rise up. I have to bend the bridge back or bend one of the string to bring the guitar in tune.
Yesterday, I rised up the bridge acting with the screw (with no strings tension), and I noticed that the treble strings side was lower than the low strings side.
Today I changed the strings. I tried to setup the bridge, and I noticed that it has a bit of slack, so I searched the right position, mounted the springs and the new strings. The height of the bridge seemed more balanced. I tuned the strings, but when I used the bar I heard like a bedding stroke of the bridge that hit the body of the guitar and the height was lower, so the action of the strings, and again the treble strings side of the bridge was lower.
I can't understand if the guitar is faulty or it something else, I really need a PRS expert, please.

Thank you.

 

[tedtan]

Sounds like the bridge is not returning to neutral after use. It also sounds like the guitar probably needs to be set up again. I don’t know enough about the SE bridge to guide you through the process, so I’d suggest taking it back to the luthier and show him the bridge problem and ask him to fix that and set the guitar up.

 

[AaeCee]

PRS trems are superb, but at the same time require very specific adjustments to work optimally. It sounds like maybe your tech was not as well informed on their system as needed, and it's therefore not perfectly set up. PRS has vids outlining proper set up and adjustment, but you could always email the PTC for further guidance.

Of course, whenever you change string gauges, the nut may become an issue, so before doing anything else I'd be sure that it's properly cut for the new strings. The nut is by far the #1 culprit with tuning issues.

 

[LilyLazer]

The nut is the first thing I thought, probably I'll change it with another one, but the strings seems to fit well enough.
The main problem should be in the bridge, I think. Also, if I push the bar all the tuning goes completely out. The screw height is about the same. Why the bridge is adjusted suddenly lowering unbalanced when I used the bar?
Could the bridge screw ruined?

Mu luthier said that the bridge is faulty and of poor quality, I should modify, but I don't think the original bridge makes the guitar unplayble, and even if when I bought it I haven't been that scrupulous to check the tune with 9-42 I think that issue there's no like that.

 

[GuitarJammin]

If he lowered the bridge to lower the action...well that could mean he didn't align the Bridge screws correctly. Usually you adjust the Truss rod first and then MAYBE saddles second to lower action before even touching the bridge height.

Why the bridge is adjusted suddenly lowering unbalanced when I used the bar?
Could the bridge screw ruined?

I'm not looking at the guitar...but this right here makes me think the bridge screws are misaligned. Tuning stability might improve if you get them aligned correctly.

I don't think your bridge is ruined...but you definitely don't want a bridge screw to snap...OR..the trem holes for the screw to get damaged. Careful adjustments can be made to correct this issue. Maybe take it to a different Luthier this time.

 

[Draconomics]

Hello,
I have a 2018 PRS Custom 22 SE. And I know it has sometime tuning stability problem.
I passed from the stock 9-42 strings to D'Addario 10.5-48 (werid gauge, I know).
My luthier set the bridge lower to get a lower action.
That was ok, I didn't notice before that, but I have with this guitar serious problem with the tuning. Not a string in particular, but the problem is with all the strings. I can't use the bar else I increase the pitch of all the strings.
If I don't have the bar and all the strings are in tune, if I slightly hit the bridge with the hand pushing down, even slightly, the tune rise up. I have to bend the bridge back or bend one of the string to bring the guitar in tune.
Yesterday, I rised up the bridge acting with the screw (with no strings tension), and I noticed that the treble strings side was lower than the low strings side.
Today I changed the strings. I tried to setup the bridge, and I noticed that it has a bit of slack, so I searched the right position, mounted the springs and the new strings. The height of the bridge seemed more balanced. I tuned the strings, but when I used the bar I heard like a bedding stroke of the bridge that hit the body of the guitar and the height was lower, so the action of the strings, and again the treble strings side of the bridge was lower.
I can't understand if the guitar is faulty or it something else, I really need a PRS expert, please.

Thank you.

Ok, so sounds to me like two possibilities: the spring tension is off, and/or the nut is binding, keeping the string from going back into pitch. I also have a question: did you or your Luther mess with the bridge fulcrum screws?

 

[dogrocketp]

All on point. Unless your “luthier” screwed it up, there’s nothing wrong with the bridge. DO NOT ADJUST THE 6 TREM SCREWS WITHOUT SLACKING THE STRINGS AND DISCONNECTING THE BRIDGE SPRINGS. The bridge should be parallel with the body. Look for the John Mann video on setting up the trem. Based on what you said, you need a different luthier. The only thing defective is the luthiers brain.

 

[LilyLazer]

Thanks guys.

If he lowered the bridge to lower the action...well that could mean he didn't align the Bridge screws correctly. Usually you adjust the Truss rod first and then MAYBE saddles second to lower action before even touching the bridge height.
[...]

I think I realized something important here. Looking the bridge from the back it's not parallel to the body, but I also thought that the screw are aligned because I seen it aligned on the bridge surface. But, if the bridge is inclined on one side so the screw are NOT aligned to the body. So this should be the reason the bridge doesn't go back in a stable position, but it raises or lowers when I touch it or I use the bar.

About the action, I setted the truss rod, but I necessarily had to lower the bridge because the 10.5-48 gauge strings had too much tension compare to the 9-42, bending was impossible! But I wanted anyway a lower action because the stock PRS action (1.75mm E low and 1.50mm E high, I guess) was too high for me. The saddles were already lowered at maximum.

Ok, so sounds to me like two possibilities: the spring tension is off, and/or the nut is binding, keeping the string from going back into pitch. I also have a question: did you or your Luther mess with the bridge fulcrum screws?

It doesn't seem the action of the springs is off. Looking the bridge from the side it's almost parallel, but if I push it down with my hand it stay down (if I lift up it stay too high, too). The bar is pretty much heavy to push, not too much, that's ok, but it's not light. I's say the four springs are ok.

My luthier lowered the bridge, so the action was ok and the tension issue was solved.
But I noticed after some weeks after I used heavily the bar the G string pitch remained higher, so I need to bend the G string to back in tune. So I though the problem was the nut. Then my luthier check it, and that was ok enough. After some other interventions on the bridge in an attempt to solve the problem this is got worst or a bit better. I changed the strings and tried to adjust the screws, but now is pretty bad. (As I said a side of the bridge is slightly lower, so I should adjust better the screws height.)

DO NOT ADJUST THE 6 TREM SCREWS WITHOUT SLACKING THE STRINGS AND DISCONNECTING THE BRIDGE SPRINGS.

I always slacked the strings, but I never disconnected the springs because I never read this anywhere on the PRS bridge setup page.
It's pretty tricky to adjust the screws height with the strings mounted, because the bridge stay catch to the screw. If I disconnect the springs it should be easier?

 

[Draconomics]

It doesn't seem the action of the springs is off. Looking the bridge from the side it's almost parallel, but if I push it down with my hand it stay down (if I lift up it stay too high, too). The bar is pretty much heavy to push, not too much, that's ok, but it's not light. I's say the four springs are ok.

My luthier lowered the bridge, so the action was ok and the tension issue was solved.
But I noticed after some weeks after I used heavily the bar the G string pitch remained higher, so I need to bend the G string to back in tune. So I though the problem was the nut. Then my luthier check it, and that was ok enough. After some other interventions on the bridge in an attempt to solve the problem this is got worst or a bit better. I changed the strings and tried to adjust the screws, but now is pretty bad. (As I said a side of the bridge is slightly lower, so I should adjust better the screws height.)

OK, if you want my honest opinion...we are gooched Mr. Grinch. Sound like both you and your luthier had a go at it and now we are at a point where we need to start over from scratch. So, here's my solution:

1. We need to disassemble the entire thing. Take the strings off and level out the bridge fulcrum screws. I'd say unless they people at the factory had a massive off day, they should really never be messed with, and it sounds to me your bridge is now angled which is a no-no. The bridge plate must be level with the guitar body in order to work optimally.

2. You don't need four springs. That's overkill for 9's, that's overkill for 10's. Reduce it to three, and dont angle any springs, have them parallel to one another.

3. I still want you to check your nut. While using the trem, put an ear to the nut and listen for a "ping" sound. If you hear it, that means its binding the string and either needs lube or replacement. I would highly suggest replacing it because the stock SE nu t material gets worn easily and if you arent having this problem now, you probably will in the future.

Its hard to fully diagnose it without being there, but notes not coming back to pitch always means they are catching somewhere or your your spring/string tension is off and/or the bridge cannot float properly.

 

[LilyLazer]

Yes, probably I have to start over from scratch, but take off the strings is for me a pain in the... I used the locking method, if I take them off I don't know if I can re-wrap again. In case I have another pack, but just in case.

1. Anyway, I think I'm going to try to set the bridge in line to the body, placing a gauge feeler between the bridge and the body.
If I solve, at least partially, the bridge stability the next time I need new strings I'll set it better. The only issue will be how I could do it, because I can't set the stock height of the strings, but a customized height that allows to me to have the right action setup.

2. My strings are 10.5-48, slightly big than 10-46, but I never considering to use just three springs. Trying this should be not so tricky, I guess.

3. I can't hear any ping. just rarely on the E high, because that's is been corrected by my luthier, it was defective and I that strings buzzed since I bought the guitar because the slot was too deep. I think the nut situation it's not so critical, but I'll change it sooner or later because the cost of this upgrade is pretty affordable.

 

[dogrocketp]

The nut is usually the cause of the problem. Because your tremolo isn’t returning to pitch, going to three springs and tightening the trem claw as needed should work for you. If you were in the States and close to one of us, the problem could be fixed in a very brief period of time.

 

[Draconomics]

Yes, probably I have to start over from scratch, but take off the strings is for me a pain in the... I used the locking method, if I take them off I don't know if I can re-wrap again. In case I have another pack, but just in case.

1. Anyway, I think I'm going to try to set the bridge in line to the body, placing a gauge feeler between the bridge and the body.
If I solve, at least partially, the bridge stability the next time I need new strings I'll set it better. The only issue will be how I could do it, because I can't set the stock height of the strings, but a customized height that allows to me to have the right action setup.

2. My strings are 10.5-48, slightly big than 10-46, but I never considering to use just three springs. Trying this should be not so tricky, I guess.

3. I can't hear any ping. just rarely on the E high, because that's is been corrected by my luthier, it was defective and I that strings buzzed since I bought the guitar because the slot was too deep. I think the nut situation it's not so critical, but I'll change it sooner or later because the cost of this upgrade is pretty affordable.

1. Dont worry about the action right now. Worry about getting the bridge level, and we'll go from there. Ideally you want about a 1/16" of clearance between the bridge and the body, you can go an 1/8" too if you like having a little room for pulling back on it.

2. I would only use four springs for gauges above 11 at standard. Try three, it'll loosen up the trem, making it much easier to use the trem. Remember, if you decide to downtune, you will need to adjust ALL of this stuff again. Make sure you are set on one specific tuning for this guitar and stick with it.

3. If its an affordable upgrade, there is no reason to not do it. You will run into binding problems down the road and your strings will continue to eat away at the nut material. Changing it may even solve all your problems. You see, ideally the nut should be a fixed point, meaning when I use the trem the string should not be sliding through the nut as I slack/tension it with the bridge. The reality is that this is not what actually happens, the string does slide though a bit and thus if the nut is catching the string, it'll NEVER return to pitch. That's why Floyd Rose trems were invented, as they use a locking nut to stop this from happening. While it is possible to install a locking nut on a trem system like this, most of the time they require some modification to install. That said, you can do all of the cool trem stuff on these as long as everything is dialed in right. Remember, EVH's Eruption? That was recorded using a regular strat bridge.

 

[LilyLazer]

The nut is usually the cause of the problem. Because your tremolo isn’t returning to pitch, going to three springs and tightening the trem claw as needed should work for you. If you were in the States and close to one of us, the problem could be fixed in a very brief period of time.

I'm from Italy.

1. Dont worry about the action right now. Worry about getting the bridge level, and we'll go from there. Ideally you want about a 1/16" of clearance between the bridge and the body, you can go an 1/8" too if you like having a little room for pulling back on it.

2. I would only use four springs for gauges above 11 at standard. Try three, it'll loosen up the trem, making it much easier to use the trem. Remember, if you decide to downtune, you will need to adjust ALL of this stuff again. Make sure you are set on one specific tuning for this guitar and stick with it.

3. If its an affordable upgrade, there is no reason to not do it. You will run into binding problems down the road and your strings will continue to eat away at the nut material. Changing it may even solve all your problems. You see, ideally the nut should be a fixed point, meaning when I use the trem the string should not be sliding through the nut as I slack/tension it with the bridge. The reality is that this is not what actually happens, the string does slide though a bit and thus if the nut is catching the string, it'll NEVER return to pitch. That's why Floyd Rose trems were invented, as they use a locking nut to stop this from happening. While it is possible to install a locking nut on a trem system like this, most of the time they require some modification to install. That said, you can do all of the cool trem stuff on these as long as everything is dialed in right. Remember, EVH's Eruption? That was recorded using a regular strat bridge.

1. For some reason the 10.5-48 have a lot of tension than the 9-42, I mean A LOT of tension, so I need to adjust the action necessarily, else I can't bend the higher strings.
The 1/16" height of the bridge from the body is about 1.6mm, I don't need the pull the bridge back, I mean I can live without it if that solve the tension problem and I get the action I like. I think I should set the height at 0.75mm, or even less, (less than about 1/32"). I know, it almost touches the body, but I can set a lower action in other ways on this guitar, some of the saddle are lowered at max, and the truss rod is well set, (I'll check it again).
Could it possible to set the fulcrum screws if I loosen the tension of the strings and disconnect the springs?

2. Once I adjusted the bridge (I hope it will be ok), I could try to take off a spring and putting two springs at the side and one at the center. Then, probably I have to adjust the claw screws, and just it, to have the bridge parallel to the body. Is it right?

3. I'll replace the nut.

 

[dogrocketp]

1. Once the relief is properly set, then you should watch the John Mann video on setting up the PRS tremolo on YouTube. He invented it. Then you loosen the strings, disconnect the springs, and set the bridge to the proper height.
2. Retighten the springs, and tune the guitar to pitch with the backplate off. Adjust the trem claw screws so that the bridge is parallel to the body. Pull the bar up as far as possible, then push the bar down as far as possible. Do this repeatedly. If the trem does not return to parallel, readjust the trem claw screws. Repeat the adjustment until the trem returns to normal position. Remount the back plate. If all strings do not return to pitch, it’s either the nut, or the trem claw is hitting the backplate.
3. Do not assume you can simply remove the nut and it’ll work properly. Watch every video on putting on a new nut. The nut slots will have to be opened properly, and most importantly the string height will have to be set properly at the first fret. Make sure you have an extra nut just in case. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck.

 

[Draconomics]

I'm from Italy.



1. For some reason the 10.5-48 have a lot of tension than the 9-42, I mean A LOT of tension, so I need to adjust the action necessarily, else I can't bend the higher strings.
The 1/16" height of the bridge from the body is about 1.6mm, I don't need the pull the bridge back, I mean I can live without it if that solve the tension problem and I get the action I like. I think I should set the height at 0.75mm, or even less, (less than about 1/32"). I know, it almost touches the body, but I can set a lower action in other ways on this guitar, some of the saddle are lowered at max, and the truss rod is well set, (I'll check it again).
Could it possible to set the fulcrum screws if I loosen the tension of the strings and disconnect the springs?

2. Once I adjusted the bridge (I hope it will be ok), I could try to take off a spring and putting two springs at the side and one at the center. Then, probably I have to adjust the claw screws, and just it, to have the bridge parallel to the body. Is it right?

3. I'll replace the nut.

Lucky I'm good with numbers.

1. The tension on a 10.5 set is very different from a 9 set. I have to ask, and normally I dont get intrusive on people string choices, but...why? Running 10.5 in standard? You can do it, sure, but if you like doing faster runs and blues bends, and you dont have walnut cracking hand strength, youre workin too hard. As to the bridge, if you would rather not have the bridge floating, you can essentially deck it. That is the advantage, you get more room for adjusting action on the saddles. Only thing to remember is to be careful when doing dives with the trem. If you lose grip of the bar by accident, that bridge will slam into the body. You may cause some damage. Just be aware of that little tradeoff.

1a. Is is possible to set the fulcrum screws by loosening the strings and springs? Sorta. While you can do it, its just easier to have everything out of your way, which means removing the strings, but yes. It is possible.

2. Correctamundo. You will need to screw the claw in further of course, but thats the way to do it. With guitar, there are no rules for how to do these things, but well tested suggestions. Some people angle the two springs on the side, but the problem there is the center spring wont have less tension. In some cases, it'll fall out on its own.

3. You will be much happier with a new nut. Like I said, that may be the source of all our problems. I would suggest installing the nut, lubing it, or if its a Tusq XL they are self lubing, then string her up and see how the guitar does. That may be all you need.

Good luck mate!

 

[LilyLazer]

1. Once the relief is properly set, then you should watch the John Mann video on setting up the PRS tremolo on YouTube. He invented it. Then you loosen the strings, disconnect the springs, and set the bridge to the proper height.
2. Retighten the springs, and tune the guitar to pitch with the backplate off. Adjust the trem claw screws so that the bridge is parallel to the body. Pull the bar up as far as possible, then push the bar down as far as possible. Do this repeatedly. If the trem does not return to parallel, readjust the trem claw screws. Repeat the adjustment until the trem returns to normal position. Remount the back plate. If all strings do not return to pitch, it’s either the nut, or the trem claw is hitting the backplate.
-3. Do not assume you can simply remove the nut and it’ll work properly. Watch every video on putting on a new nut. The nut slots will have to be opened properly, and most importantly the string height will have to be set properly at the first fret. Make sure you have an extra nut just in case. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck.

1. I seen John Mann's video more than one time. The problem here is to set the height of the bridge as I would like. If you mean to set like the stock setting then I have to set it lower later, and if I can't be very precise I will have the problem again. I could set the height using not a 2.5mm hex key, but a thinner hex key to have a lower height, but not too much low.
Then, if I need a lower height I could detune the strings, disconnect the springs and turn all the screws 1/4 or 1/8 at the time.
2. I'll set the claw screws like you said moving the bar up and down, hoping I have to solve the problem with the bridge screw setting.
3. If it's alright, now, I'll see how much problem I have with the nut. if I was able to restore the setting I had a short while ago, I should have just some minor problem when I use heavily the bar, with just the G string detuned. I bring it back in tune with a bending.
Anyway, my luthier will change the nut.

Lucky I'm good with numbers.

1. The tension on a 10.5 set is very different from a 9 set. I have to ask, and normally I dont get intrusive on people string choices, but...why? Running 10.5 in standard? You can do it, sure, but if you like doing faster runs and blues bends, and you dont have walnut cracking hand strength, youre workin too hard. As to the bridge, if you would rather not have the bridge floating, you can essentially deck it. That is the advantage, you get more room for adjusting action on the saddles. Only thing to remember is to be careful when doing dives with the trem. If you lose grip of the bar by accident, that bridge will slam into the body. You may cause some damage. Just be aware of that little tradeoff.

1a. Is is possible to set the fulcrum screws by loosening the strings and springs? Sorta. While you can do it, its just easier to have everything out of your way, which means removing the strings, but yes. It is possible.

2. Correctamundo. You will need to screw the claw in further of course, but that the way to do it. With guitar, there are no rules for how to do these things, but well tested suggestions. Some people angle the two springs on the side, but the problem there is the center spring wont have less tension. In some cases, it'll fall out on its own.

3. You will be much happier with a new nut. Like I said, that may be the source of all our problems. I would suggest installing the nut, lubing it, or if its a Tusq XL they are self lubing, then string her up and see how the guitar does. That may be all you need.

Good luck mate!

1. It's ok talk about all this stuff. The original strings 9-42 was very soft, my other standard tuning guitar (yes, my PRS is standard tuning) is a Stratocaster with the 10-46, and I like it. I thought with the slightly smaller scale of the PRS the 10-46 were a bit softer than the one on my Stratocaster, so I tried this 10.5-48. With a low action the bend with the high strings is not so fast, but good, soft and easy enough for my hands, maybe just a very bit harder than my Stratocaster. And I love the tension on the bass strings and that the strings are fatter. If in the future I will have problem or something else I could try to pass to the 10-46. I think my mistake was not try them before to pass directly to the 10.5-48.
It's ok for me have a not floating bridge to get a lower action strings. I know, I have to pay attention to don't slam the bridge, but, actually, I don't use dive with the trem. Indeed, I found casually the initially problem I had with the bar with the G string detune, and that was not a real problem, because the use of my bar was very soft. But, once I found the issue I just wanted to solve it, and I thought the problem was just the nut. Then the thing is got worst, and I have, now, to solve all the things.

2. I thought, in case I will to use just three springs, put it in parallel. But, you're right, I have to try it and understand how it works because there's no perfect rule.

3. I think this is ok for the PRS Custom 22 SE: Graph Tech Black TUSQ XL PT-5042-00.
https://www.thomann.de/it/graphtech_black_tusq_xl_pt_5042_00_reviews.htm

 

[aphantomvaper]

Hi I'm late to the discussion and a lot of goid information has been discussed.

All I wanted to say is we don't adjust the action with the fulcrum screws. It can be done, and the best practice is to set the bridge at factory spec height with the springs (3) in factory position and set the bridge parallel to the body at spec height.

Assuming the nut is at spec the action adjustment should be done on the bridge saddles or the truss rod.

PRS are made to work when adjusted to spec. Once everything is set correctly it may be easier to track this issue down.

Good luck, I'd love to see this resolved for you.

 

[LilyLazer]

Thanks aphantomvaper.
I can't see how we can set the height of the strings without change the bridge height. About the truss rod, alright, but I can make it more than straight, else I have too much buzzfret. And some saddles are lowered at max, it already was when I bought it. But the stock setting was good, the action wasn't crazy height, it was ok, about 1.6-1.7mm at 12°, probably. I just wanted a lower action.

I hope I can try soon to set my PRS Custom SE.

 

[LilyLazer]

I tried again to set the screws bridge without take off the strings, but without tension. Disconnected the springs.
It's hard to set them because the bridge stay over the body, and after a pair of attempts I broke the E high, so I took off all the strings. I uncsrewed out all the screw and this is one, but everyone has the same aspect:

Are those ruined?

 

[dogrocketp]

The screws are grooved on purpose, they are not ruined. I’m getting the feeling that we’re going around in circles for you. There is normally a curve to how the saddles on the PRS bridge are set. It’s 10” to match the curve of the fretboard. If the bridge saddles are flat (like some acoustic guitars) nothing will ever work right. Trem screw adjustments always have to be done with no tension on the bridge, or you ruin the knife edge holes on the base of the bridge plate. If you ruin the holes the trem will NEVER stay in tune. The big question going forward is whether you want to use the trem or not. Either way it can be set up so the guitar stays in tune. Regardless, you may lose another string before this is over. Make sure you have extra for the G, B, and E.PM me if you have any questions. I’ve set up about 40 PRS trem guitars.