CITES - endangered species spread out to IRW?

[Maertl513]

Hi folks,

Recently I´ve heard that IRW will be introduced to the CITES regulations as an endangered species which means its use (trade in every term) has to be restricted. I´ve heard that by a friend who´s into wooden parts and it was confirmed by an other guy, who spoke to someone at Taylor guitars.
As a matter of fact, BRW is for several years on the list, it´s been still used and processed even by PRS but its trading is limited to the USA. You all are familiar with the stamp "USA only". To export it from to the USA/to import it to other countries/states CITES data is a must for documentation of the origin and legal harvest.

What is the output/outcome to the approach of adding IRW to the list? Does it lead to the fact that PRS now has to deliver CITES information as case candy? Will they processe other woods for non-USA-market?

 

[Milchschnitte]

It's no problem to ship guitars with Braz, even from the US to anywhere in the world.
On the "Built for USA only" guitars PRS just does not go the extra mile to do all the legwork for the documentation and export papers.
They very well did Braz guitars for Europe just a little while ago, some of them were sold by WG in the UK for example.

Nik Huber does Braz all the time and ships them all over the world. It's just a matter of the proper documents.


What PRS will do if push comes to shove is anybody's guess, but I guess they will just use another species of rosewood, or something completely different. There are a lot of other good fretboard woods out there.

 

[Maertl513]

I have information that NO BRW equipped PRS has come to Germany (e. g.) to the time MEINL has been PRS distributor.
Sure, it's all about the documentation.
But in comparision to all luthiers I know, who processe especially BRW, PRS is - as far as my observations and knowledge reaches - saving own efforts by not delivering those necessary papers. Nik Huber does, Hailwood does, Florian Jaeger does...

 

[Whitecat]

PRS have done a handful of BRW guitars with CITES paperwork for the UK over the past couple years.

IRW going on the list is a real spanner in the works though - will they "grandfather" instruments built before a certain date?

 

[Maertl513]

Thanks for telling, that PRS has done CITES documentation regarding UK sales.

 

[django49]

When I ordered my Nik Huber with BRW, it got delayed about 2 months. All the paperwork was in order, but the "judge" who had to certify the CITES paperwork died and it had to "sit in limbo" until another replaced him officially.
Later, I picked up, used, another Huber with a full carved BRW top. The wood was, I am told, shipped from the US to Germany by the person who commissioned the guitar (Y'all may know him), then back. No CITES, no problem. All the same something like that COULD be an issue in the future. That is, IF I ever WANTED to let it go.

 

[Maertl513]

For all of us who procured any PRS with IRW on it before 2017 nothing changes.
The way ahead could be exciting to a certain extent.

 

[vchizzle]

Will certainly be interesting to see what happens with this.

 

[shinksma]

I tried to do some research on this. Wikipedia says the typical species referred to as Indian Rosewood is:
Dalbergia latifolia

I've seen several mentions that it is illegal to export wild-harvested Rosewood from India under Indian law as logs or rough lumber - only finished products can be exported (are neck blanks a finished good?), and I can't find any restrictions on plantation-grown IRW (grown pretty well only in Indonesia and India).

I did find this stament on a website, but it doesn't jive with what I found (or rather didn't find) on the actual CITES website:

The raw material of D. latifolia is listed under CITES on Appendix I, so international trade in these materials is banned. Finished products made from the timber are not.

I cannot find this species in the CITES database. Other Dalbergia spp are listed, but not that exact one (nor the synonym D. emarginata).

Brazilian Rosewood shows up (App I, which is the most restricted), so I know my searches are not failing completely.

Are there any authoritative sources of this info out there?

 

[shinksma]

OK, I found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-summit-cracks-down-on-illegal-rosewood-trade

An important selection of quotes from the article:

The Convention on the Trade in Endangered Species (Cites) summit on Thursday placed all 300 species of rosewood under trade restrictions, meaning criminals can no longer pass off illegally logged species as legitimate.

The importance of protecting the entire Dalbergia genus of rosewood is that criminals can no longer pass off illegal rosewood as one of the previously unprotected species.

The new protections enter into force in 90 days, but need action by individual nations to have an impact.

Rosewood is also used to make some musical instruments, such as guitars, but the new rules will not prevent musicians travelling with their instruments.

That last one is very relevant.

 

[django49]

I wish I was quite as confident that some overly zealous agent checking out gear as it crosses the border might NOT get it into his/her head that the "right thing to do" is to confiscate a "suspect item". If so, good luck getting it back.