What are you going to tell me next, that you've never seen Full Metal Jacket or Heartbreak Ridge?
I've never seen those, either.
Amp Feel: A Thing.
- Thread starter László
- Start date
I've never seen those, either.
Yup. A thing happens when you plug into an amp, and it's hard to explain!
Screamingdaisy
(O)))m
squirrel211
New Member
I can understand Less not seeing this one (Tropic Thunder), but YOU!? What is your major malfunction?! hahahaha
What are you going to tell me next, that you've never seen Full Metal Jacket or Heartbreak Ridge?
"What do you mean YOU people?"
Nuh-uh. Never thought they were funny, even when I was a little kid back in 1930.
Ah, so many quotes that I can't quote here...
squirrel211
New Member
Back on topic, has anybody noticed that amps that feel great on their own, get lost in the mix.
I still struggle with this. My new amp feels stiffer than my long-time #1 while playing at home, but it cuts through better, and doesn't feel stiff in the band mix.
I still struggle with this. My new amp feels stiffer than my long-time #1 while playing at home, but it cuts through better, and doesn't feel stiff in the band mix.
D
Deleted member 5962
Guest
I don't do it a lot on the net but all my friends know me for quoting moving lines. Usually something from Chevy Chase, Bill Murray, Eddie Murphy, Robin Williams, Chris Farley, Adam Sandler.... My last two dogs were named Fletch (obvious) and Tripper (Bill Murray in Meatballs).
Oh man, yes! I combat this with pedal and guitar choices. If I'm the only guitar, I need to bump the mids solidly but retain some bite. If not, I dial back the gain and go for power crunch with clarity. That means the Secret Freq and Cu24 on the former, and the Klon/EP Booster and Les Paul for the latter. It's a constant struggle.
Boogie makes some really good points - you can tell he's been there, done that - and I'll add a few more...
In a mix, it's all about dynamics. You have a lot of instruments and vocals competing to be heard in that midrange frequency band - the mixer's slog is always, "Make everything louder than everything else!" This, of course, is impossible.
Cutting through a mix on guitar is all about the pick attack. It's what your ear hears first, and it impacts the rest of the note's clarity in a HUGE way. That's why a stiff amp cuts, because it compresses less, and preserves the pick attack. Once an amp (or pedal) compresses, the impact of the pick attack goes away.
Of course, the problem is that the more gain you use, the more the signal compresses and you lose pick attack; the more the signal compresses, the less it will cut.
The Klon is popular because it preserves more pick attack than most pedals, and retains the dynamics. Of course, it still compresses a little, and even the EP compresses the signal a little. But they're very good about preserving pick attack. And these pedals allow Boogie to set his amp a little cleaner, which means it will also cut a little better, and he is able to tweak the controls of both pedal and amp to find a balance.
But the negative trade-off with less compression is that there is also less sustain. There's a reason that a Boss compression pedal I remember from the '90s was called a "compressor-sustainer." Compressors raise the lower-level signals to be louder, and make the higher level signals softer. The lower level signals include the decay of the note, so it sustains a little more. Again, it's important to find a balance.
If your amp sounds great at home with a lot of sag and compression, it's because a) you don't need it to cut; b) it's easier to play with plenty of sag and sustain; and c) compression is easier on your ears.
So home playing is sort of the opposite of band playing (or studio playing) in terms of the amp's need for cut. I think that's just part of the deal. Brian May's AC30 and treble boost settings would probably be awfully ice-picky for playing alone, right? But in context, the sound is glorious. However, there's an example of a pretty stiff rig for ya.
I use my CU24 30th and McCarty a lot when I need cut. The 85/15 pickups and 58/15s have a ton of clarity, and that helps. The CU24 is also very midrange-heavy, so again, it cuts. Guitars with P-90s are great at this as well.
I like to use the McCarty Singlecut in a less dense mix, where its massive low end doesn't get lost, and its impact is greater. Again, it's all a matter of trade-offs. Other guitars fall somewhere in the middle for me.
The DG30 has plenty of cut, it's a stiffer amp than the HXDA. Even the Lone Star is stiffer than the HXDA, but it's also harsher. There's another trade-off for ya, the whole "Warm" vs "Harsh" amp thing...
For me, the simplest solution is to be in a band where it's drums, bass, keys, vocals, and one guitar. It's easier to carve out a place in the sonic landscape. Of course, if I'm playing guitar, I just want drums, bass, vocals, and me. Then you can hear everything!
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squirrel211
New Member
Boogie makes some really good points - you can tell he's been there, done that - and I'll add a few more...
In a mix, it's all about dynamics. You have a lot of instruments and vocals competing to be heard in that midrange frequency band - the mixer's slog is always, "Make everything louder than everything else!" This, of course, is impossible.
Cutting through a mix on guitar is all about the pick attack. It's what your ear hears first, and it impacts the rest of the note's clarity in a HUGE way. That's why a stiff amp cuts, because it compresses less, and preserves the pick attack. Once an amp (or pedal) compresses, the impact of the pick attack goes away.
Of course, the problem is that the more gain you use, the more the signal compresses and you lose pick attack; the more the signal compresses, the less it will cut.
The Klon is popular because it preserves more pick attack than most pedals, and retains the dynamics. Of course, it still compresses a little, and even the EP compresses the signal a little. But they're very good about preserving pick attack. And these pedals allow Boogie to set his amp a little cleaner, which means it will also cut a little better, and he is able to tweak the controls of both pedal and amp to find a balance.
But the negative trade-off with less compression is that there is also less sustain. There's a reason that a Boss compression pedal I remember from the '90s was called a "compressor-sustainer." Compressors raise the lower-level signals to be louder, and make the higher level signals softer. The lower level signals include the decay of the note, so it sustains a little more. Again, it's important to find a balance.
If your amp sounds great at home with a lot of sag and compression, it's because a) you don't need it to cut; b) it's easier to play with plenty of sag and sustain; and c) compression is easier on your ears.
So home playing is sort of the opposite of band playing (or studio playing) in terms of the amp's need for cut. I think that's just part of the deal. Brian May's AC30 and treble boost settings would probably be awfully ice-picky for playing alone, right? But in context, the sound is glorious. However, there's an example of a pretty stiff rig for ya.
I use my CU24 30th and McCarty a lot when I need cut. The 85/15 pickups and 58/15s have a ton of clarity, and that helps. The CU24 is also very midrange-heavy, so again, it cuts. Guitars with P-90s are great at this as well.
I like to use the McCarty Singlecut in a less dense mix, where its massive low end doesn't get lost, and its impact is greater. Again, it's all a matter of trade-offs. Other guitars fall somewhere in the middle for me.
The DG30 has plenty of cut, it's a stiffer amp than the HXDA. Even the Lone Star is stiffer than the HXDA, but it's also harsher. There's another trade-off for ya, the whole "Warm" vs "Harsh" amp thing...
For me, the simplest solution is to be in a band where it's drums, bass, keys, vocals, and one guitar. It's easier to carve out a place in the sonic landscape. Of course, if I'm playing guitar, I just want drums, bass, vocals, and me. Then you can hear everything!
squirrel211
New Member
HAHA! I'm not certain what happened there....
Dusty Chalk
alberngruppenführer
You butt-posted?
squirrel211
New Member
I can only imagine the series of events that led to a blank post. In my world, anything is possible!
To add to the actual discussion; I've noticed through using attenuators, that feel is also affected by volume. Not the amp's volume, but the actual volume coming out of the speaker. It's probably the speaker reacting to not being pushed as hard, but I think Fletcher Munson may be involved as well.
For my purposes, I'm circling the drain on a 3-5 watt amp, EL34 based amp being perfect. 3 watts is louder than you think!
*** I will say that I have no idea if that's possible, I'm not an amp designer. Can't even solder well, truth be told! And I'm open to 6L6, KT66, KT88 options!
To add to the actual discussion; I've noticed through using attenuators, that feel is also affected by volume. Not the amp's volume, but the actual volume coming out of the speaker. It's probably the speaker reacting to not being pushed as hard, but I think Fletcher Munson may be involved as well.
For my purposes, I'm circling the drain on a 3-5 watt amp, EL34 based amp being perfect. 3 watts is louder than you think!
*** I will say that I have no idea if that's possible, I'm not an amp designer. Can't even solder well, truth be told! And I'm open to 6L6, KT66, KT88 options!
I think there's both the lack of speaker breakup and the Fletcher-Munson curve at work with attenuators, however, speaker distortion is very high when a speaker is pushed, and definitely adds a lot.
The EL34 tube is 25 Watts in most Class AB amps, runs about 15 Watts in a specially designed amp like an HXDA30, and apparently can run in single-ended mode in Cathode biased amps at 8-11 Watts: http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/se.html
I had a 30 Watt Bad Cat Hot Cat about 14-15 years ago, that ran the EL34s Cathode biased, and it was a beautiful sounding amp with a "crushed glass" kind of tube breakup when pushed. However it was also a VERY loud amp.
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The Fight
Long Hair Demigod
Boogie makes some really good points - you can tell he's been there, done that - and I'll add a few more...
In a mix, it's all about dynamics. You have a lot of instruments and vocals competing to be heard in that midrange frequency band - the mixer's slog is always, "Make everything louder than everything else!" This, of course, is impossible.
Cutting through a mix on guitar is all about the pick attack. It's what your ear hears first, and it impacts the rest of the note's clarity in a HUGE way. That's why a stiff amp cuts, because it compresses less, and preserves the pick attack. Once an amp (or pedal) compresses, the impact of the pick attack goes away.
Of course, the problem is that the more gain you use, the more the signal compresses and you lose pick attack; the more the signal compresses, the less it will cut.
The Klon is popular because it preserves more pick attack than most pedals, and retains the dynamics. Of course, it still compresses a little, and even the EP compresses the signal a little. But they're very good about preserving pick attack. And these pedals allow Boogie to set his amp a little cleaner, which means it will also cut a little better, and he is able to tweak the controls of both pedal and amp to find a balance.
But the negative trade-off with less compression is that there is also less sustain. There's a reason that a Boss compression pedal I remember from the '90s was called a "compressor-sustainer." Compressors raise the lower-level signals to be louder, and make the higher level signals softer. The lower level signals include the decay of the note, so it sustains a little more. Again, it's important to find a balance.
If your amp sounds great at home with a lot of sag and compression, it's because a) you don't need it to cut; b) it's easier to play with plenty of sag and sustain; and c) compression is easier on your ears.
So home playing is sort of the opposite of band playing (or studio playing) in terms of the amp's need for cut. I think that's just part of the deal. Brian May's AC30 and treble boost settings would probably be awfully ice-picky for playing alone, right? But in context, the sound is glorious. However, there's an example of a pretty stiff rig for ya.
I use my CU24 30th and McCarty a lot when I need cut. The 85/15 pickups and 58/15s have a ton of clarity, and that helps. The CU24 is also very midrange-heavy, so again, it cuts. Guitars with P-90s are great at this as well.
I like to use the McCarty Singlecut in a less dense mix, where its massive low end doesn't get lost, and its impact is greater. Again, it's all a matter of trade-offs. Other guitars fall somewhere in the middle for me.
The DG30 has plenty of cut, it's a stiffer amp than the HXDA. Even the Lone Star is stiffer than the HXDA, but it's also harsher. There's another trade-off for ya, the whole "Warm" vs "Harsh" amp thing...
For me, the simplest solution is to be in a band where it's drums, bass, keys, vocals, and one guitar. It's easier to carve out a place in the sonic landscape. Of course, if I'm playing guitar, I just want drums, bass, vocals, and me. Then you can hear everything!
Dude 100% right on the money!
My Friedman is right where I want it in terms of presents and feel but in a live mix I find my self constantly turning it up. Now a Splawn quickrod, thought it's not my favorite at home, I find myself turning it down at live shows and it cut through so well.
Using my Friedman live is great though, especially when I'm miced really well, also being the only guitar helps too!
squirrel211
New Member
I had a Quickrod, and wound up really digging it! In the end, it didn't work with the band (too aggressive), so I sold it. It was FUN to play though, and looked great!
For my band, I think the DG50 (minus the wattage) would be a much better fit.
If my wife gets a job, I may actually find out!
