Recording your guitars, recommendations please

[Texas_minor_blues]

Since the delay/reverb thread was so well received I wanted to check in again and get opinions for recording

I am looking at bare bones simple recording of guitar suggestions?
going direct is fine and so is mic'ing the cab
do you prefer an audio interface and if so what software?
do you prefer multitrack recorders if so which ones?

thank you for all the replies =D

 

[László]

If you have a computer, the very simplest thing is an audio interface with built in DI (of which there are a bunch on the market, some good, some bad, some great), and any of the well known guitar amp emulation packages: Guitar Rig, Waves GTR, Amplitube, Revalver, Scuffham S-Gear, BX, etc. Each one has different models, and you'll find that on different packages you'll like some of the models, and not others. I've yet to find one package where all the models work for me. So I have all of them.

Most companies have free trial downloads available.

For an audio interface to record guitar live, you don't need anything expensive or high end mic preamps. Something like the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is just fine, under $120. If memory serves, it was very well reviewed in Tape Op.

But of course there are many other worthy models out there in the world. And, the more you want to spend, the better, but you did say bare bones.

For recording a real amp, the Shure SM57 is the de facto standard for miking up a guitar amp in the pro audio world, and has been used on countless hit records forever. Under $100. With the interface happening, all you'll need is a mic cable and you'll be in business. So you're looking at what, under $300 plus your software for the whole schmeer.

You'll also need some recording software, and there's Reaper available for next to nothing.

You can get more expensive from there, and some people like other mics, and on and on and on. But those are the basics.

I have lots of high end gear, and I still use the 57. A lot.

But heck, for only $1200 more you can get a Royer R-121, and for another three grand, you can get a nice API mic preamp with digital outputs, and for only another six grand....etc., etc. It never ends.

You can always buy something "better" but it will have very little to do with the music you create, compared with the music itself. And a package you can put together today for $300-400 is going to have more fidelity and dynamic range, and more flexibility, than what was available in many high end studios of the 60s, 70s and 80s that made records you know and love.

Yes, one can quibble about this, but in terms of signal to noise ratio, transient response, conversion quality, bit depth and sample rate, in terms of raw fidelity to the original signal (as opposed to "vibe"), we are very much ahead of where we were when I started in studios in the 80s, even with digital vs tape, and also very much ahead of where we were in the 90s and early 2000s.

When I think about the investment I made in analog gear back in the late 80s and up through the 00s, that is today worthless (don't even ask me about my 5 figure analog 2 track mixdown deck let alone my more expensive multitrack and mechanical synchronization stuff, plus 3/4 inch video machines), I want to cry. :bawling:

 

[Prs2studio]

I use the scarlet 2i2 and guitar rig 5.

 

[NomadMike]

Second the SM57, just a handy bit of gear to have around.

 

[aristotle]

My preference, for what it's worth, is to have something that's portable, cheap, and doesn't rely on a computer for the actual capture part....but still has a good front end...

I have the Zoom R24 and really like it:

It's not nearly as big as it looks in the picture, and has the flexibility to let you conveniently capture mult-channel stuff wherever you might happen to be. You can hook it up to a computer if you want and have it act as a front end, but I just have it record straight to the SD card. Then you can take it back to your computer whenever you want and use whatever sound editing software you feel comfortable with (I usually just use audacity since it's free and easy...)

It's not a pro-setup, but works great to capture a guitar. I've also used it either at a gig or at a practice. I take the mains out of the PA and feed it into two of the channels, and then put up a couple of room mics and feed it in also. That gives you plenty to mix down for a good sound. And speaking of the mix-down, you can do that directly on the device (which has built in effects that I never use). Plug in a headset, adjust the sliders to taste while you're playing all of the channels together, rewind, and mix down to a master. Super intuitive.

All of this direct-in stuff to a sound card probably is great also, but I just don't like the idea of being tied to a computer in order to do the capture...

Regarding mic's, I agree that the SM57 is the cheapest good option (for guitars at least). I also have a SE Voodoo ribbon mic. It's half the cost of the standard Royer, and side-by-side, I actually liked the SE better....but I already knew the price differential when I did the compare, so maybe it's what I was wanting to hear.... I do definitely prefer it to an SM57, but it's still pricey...

 

[NomadMike]

My wife got me an R8 this past Christmas and it's really handy. I'd love to move up to the R24.
These days we are swamped with goodies to write, arrange and even cut a demo or two in the house on a tight budget.

 

[Tag]

I am not familiar with the above zoom, but i tried pro tools and gave up. I actually had it down (i hired someone to come to my house for an hour and show me how to do all the basic stuff), but IMO, it just takes to much time, and is NOT user friendly. I have an old Boss BR 900, and while its not the greatest thing, its fairly simple, and gets my ideas down fast and easy. Killer practice tool as well. You can then load everything to your computer through a USB port, but everything from start to finish is in the Boss. It has really good verb and delay effects too. I put backing tracks on track 1 and 2, virtual tracks 1-8, and that gives you 16 songs to be practicing over. You then have tracks 3-4-5-6, with 8 virtual tracks on each left to do 32 different takes over those 16 songs. that leaves track 7/8 to mix down to. Fairly easy to use, pretty high quality, and cheap in price. SM 57 in front of your amp straight into the Boss and away you go.

 

[aristotle]

I am not familiar with the above zoom, but i tried pro tools and gave up. I actually had it down (i hired someone to come to my house for an hour and show me how to do all the basic stuff), but IMO, it just takes to much time, and is NOT user friendly. I have an old Boss BR 900, and while its not the greatest thing, its fairly simple, and gets my ideas down fast and easy. Killer practice tool as well. You can then load everything to your computer through a USB port, but everything from start to finish is in the Boss. It has really good verb and delay effects too. I put backing tracks on track 1 and 2, virtual tracks 1-8, and that gives you 16 songs to be practicing over. You then have tracks 3-4-5-6, with 8 virtual tracks on each left to do 32 different takes over those 16 songs. that leaves track 7/8 to mix down to. Fairly easy to use, pretty high quality, and cheap in price. SM 57 in front of your amp straight into the Boss and away you go.

I definitely agree. Spending hours or days setting up software just doesn't float my boat. I haven't tried the Boss, but so long as it's simple, it sounds great to me. If you ever get a chance to try out the zoom you might find it a useful tool also....

Regarding differences in recorded tone from the mic, here's a comparison between an SM57 and the SE ribbon mic. The ribbon is definitely warmer to my ear and captures what I hear when I'm playing... (sorry...this doesn't have a PRS in the clip...but I promise that my Tone King sees my 513 about 90 percent of the time...)

 

[László]

I'm like Switzerland - when it comes to what to record with, I'm neutral.

Nothing wrong with recording on an "all in one" if using a computer is too much of a pain. Whatever works, works!

Regarding mic's, I agree that the SM57 is the cheapest good option (for guitars at least). I also have a SE Voodoo ribbon mic. It's half the cost of the standard Royer, and side-by-side, I actually liked the SE better....but I already knew the price differential when I did the compare, so maybe it's what I was wanting to hear.... I do definitely prefer it to an SM57, but it's still pricey...

I bought the Royer because I'd used them in other studios on amps, as overhead mics with drums, on acoustic guitar, as room mics, if memory serves, on Leslie Speakers, and standup bass, and from experience I learned they're just very good all-around mics. An interesting thing about the Royer is its offset ribbon; the mic sounds brighter on its reverse side, and so you have two different sounding mics in one (it was designed that way, and Royer recommends using it reversed for things like acoustic guitar, etc.).

So really, it was just experience with the mic in recording sessions at other studios that led me to get the Royer. The experience I had with it made the choice of ribbon very easy, and it's just a beautiful sounding mic (to me). I haven't used the SE in a session, I've only heard it on other folks' recordings.

A good ribbon (like both the Royer and the SE) is very sensitive to proper placement; you really have to experiment with the mic to get the most out of it.

But no mic works for every single source. And no mic pleases every ear. That's the beauty of having some variety!

The SE is a good option; SE worked with Rupert Neve to develop a high end ribbon mic that runs about 2 grand, and then having learned a lot, came out with the Voodoo mics on their own. Their Neve mic is the real deal, a very serious mic.

Also the Blue Woodpecker ribbon is a great mic. Same with the AEA R-84. Heck, if you've ever used a Coles ribbon, it was THE standard for a long time, and created by the BBC for their "Live in the Studio" shows. A little dark for my taste, but great as a room mic for drums.

The good thing about the 57 is its prominent midrange.

A ribbon has a more accurate low end, and really a more accurate top end, but sometimes it needs a little help in a dense mix, as ribbons do tend to get "lost," especially with a solo. So lots of engineers use both mics at once on a cab, and then blend to taste. This helps the guitar part to cut through the mix.

If all you're doing is rhythm parts, a ribbon is fine, or if you're in a 3 piece, yeah they can work great. Same with just recording your playing for demos of gear.

But for a lot of things, one simply needs both as a ribbon isn't enough on its own.

I mentioned earlier that the Royer is a wonderful acoustic guitar mic. It sounds like the guitar in the room. Again, however, in a dense mix, the track recorded with it gets lost, so I pair it with a condenser mic (usually a Neumann with a presence rise at around 6K), and that combination is super-nice. Again, it's a blend-to-taste thing.

 

[NomadMike]

Same here. I've put down ideas using Garage Band on my iPad, the Zoom, a Jam Man looper, and MixCraft on my laptop.
Fun times.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Logic: $199 is the best valued and most useful musical instrument I've ever bought in my life.... and any $50-200 interface off craigslist.... and a 57..... with cables of course.

 

[László]

with cables of course.

We Jedi use our minds to control the Force. We don't need no stinkin' cables.

 

[CoreyT]

I have the same Zoom R24 above and also use a Shure 57 mic with it.
It is a very cool setup, and can also run on AA batteries.
You can also use it without mics and just use the two internal ones and set it in on stage in a group like setting and capture everything.

I have never toyed with the software that came with it, I just hook it up to my PC afterwards and pull the audio file off of it.
I also use it to have a drum track background when recording guitar into it.

 

[Michael_DK]

Hi

Rank amateur here, but that never shuts me up anyway.

I am going to assume that you are about as experienced as me and would like to learn to do this stuff at least semi-properly with time.

If you are able to crank your amp without pissing off neighbours/wives/secret lovers, I would DEFINITELY say go with a cheap-ish interface* and an sm57. No question if you ask me. I bet that that mic has been used on... what... 95% of all guitar recordings you have heard, maybe? There are definitely times where a ribbon mic, or a different dynamic mic etc. are the best option, but there is NO need to go there yet. If you can't get good guitar tones with an SM57, you're not ready for another mic (that's dogmatic and I have no business saying this given my lack of experience - but I did anyway).

Use the SM57 to learn how to mic up a cabinet - distance, angle, center, edge, cone, etc.... There's a whole world there in itself with just a single mic. There's a reason a §100 mic is being used by almost all the big boys most of the time. Lucky us, eh!

You really don't know what you need until you outgrow what you have. the SM57 will be a great place to start, and your only limit will be your knowledge/experience for a long time
I am thoroughly convinced that this approach will be of tremendous benefit to you if you decide to just record direct and use plugins down the road. Man, I WISH I had the option, but... Apartment dweller

Oh, and the room. Get room treatment too! (not egg cartons - and rigid fiber glass is much better than the usual foamy stuff, it seems)

What else... Yeah, Reaper is a great DAW for cheap. I have it. I also have Logic Pro X from apple. Also an awesome DAW, which I bought for the virtual instruments etc. If you don't need that, go for Reaper. Or if on a mac, you could always start on garageband. Not professional, but it can record Kind of like a dumbed-down logic

After all this rambling, the two best pieces of advice:
1) DON'T BROWSE FORUMS! Tongue in cheek, but seriously, everything on the internet will make you question your current gear and feed your GAS. I'm guilty of this myself. Knowing this myself doesn't even protect me all that much. So use the internet to learn about techniques and all that stuff, but just ignore everything about "you need this gear to make good recordings" and "my recordings have improved tenfold after getting x"... Doesn't work that way!
2) LEARN (while keeping number 1) in mind). I can really recommend podcasts for this, but keep in mind that the hosts are ususally at a higher professional level, so they can also convince you you need to upgrade your gear, without meaning to. Filtering is key

Some resources I highly recommend:
Podcasts (some of these also focus a bit on mixing, but gold can be found anyway):
The Project Studio Network
Recording Lounge
Home Recording Show
Inside Home Recording
Simply Recording
Home Studio Corner

Also check out Graham Cochrane's site The Recording Revolution (co-host of simply recording). He is very focused on keeping the equipment simple (and cheap) and focusing on skills instead.



Hope this helps - and congratulations on starting this journey, it's a friggin awesome hobby (for those of us not fortunate enough to have it as a day job )



*) Interface: Focusrite has some good ones, but just to be sure, get one which has good DI option and phantom power, just to have the flexibility. Rumour has it that not all their interfaces has great DI input for guitar, I seem to remember the scarlett being one of these.

 

[Richard Lainegard]

I've tried too many recording setups over the years to list here, but what I've ended up with is the following.
Guitar -> Various pedals
-> Suhr Corso head, with a power scale, so I can record
silently without a cab and have the lineout come POST Poweramp
(really makes a HUGE difference in the way this thing interacts and sounds).
-> Apogee Duet iOS (2) -> Logic X
-> Within Logic I use various Cab IR's such as Redwirez, Recabinet etc,
and also the Two Notes Wall of Sound III (turning off the poweramp emulation when using the Corso).

Very, very happy with this setup. My main problems in the past have been
a) how to get a good tone using silent recording
b.) AND make sure that solution interacts with pedals every bit as good as
a mic'ed tube amp.

I've tried everything from Software plugins, to Kemper, Axe, 11R, you name it...
All can sound good on their own, but none has ever taken all pedals I throw in front
as well as the Corso (not even close).

 

[gush]

I have a friend with the multi track digital roland recorder and I lusted after one of those for a long long time. My wife got me the tascam 2488 for x-mas maybe 8 years ago and I must say I hate it most of the time. It is impossible to figure out without spending hours reading the manual. That KILLS the creative mood for me. What I do like is the fact I can go direct out of any channel of my A&H board into tascam for live recordings which has turned out pretty cool. Only having 8 record channels at one time means you have to get creative or link two together and I have done both with nice results.

What mics to use and where to put them is endless. You should be able to get goods results with the sm57 but I prefer the senn 609 or the A-T 3035 for my 5150 rig.

Good luck.

 

[Sage]

Assuming you're on a Mac and only recording one or two tracks at a time, the Apogee Duet is a fantastic little interface. I use it with Logic Pro X and Amplitube 3.

 

[SeanJohnson57]

I am brand new to recording, and I don't even know if I really want to get too far into it, but, I recently found this review on the Creative Sound Blaster R3. I haven't heard a lot about it. What are your guys' opinions on it? I am wanting to spend only about $100, but I will go up to $150, if needed.

 

[jfb]

Logic: $199 is the best valued and most useful musical instrument I've ever bought in my life.... and any $50-200 interface off craigslist.... and a 57..... with cables of course.

This is my approach.

 

[László]

This is my approach.

So let's hear some of your recordings!!