How is the S2 Custom 24 better than the SE?

[CrimesAgainstMusic]

I'm sure the S2 wood that doesn't make the grade for core has plenty of time to dry! Lol

I'm not saying there's not a difference . To me it's not worth it for the S2 custom 24. I've personally never experienced an issue with SE wood. Not saying you haven't only that I haven't. My 30th floyd is every bit as solid and stable as my core 24 and after some electronics work sounds 99% as good.

Dave's had a blow out on a used (with an unfortunate ding) 24-08 and it was all I could do to not buy, but that's never happened for a S2 custom 24. Well once but when I showed up the S2 headstock was purple instead of blue. After I played it I bought something else. My 30th, I showed up and the whole blue guitar was blurple. I bought that one. Make of it what one will.

In the end my view on the Custom 24 is go SE (anniversary or 24-08) or save for core if one likes the satin finish check out the standard. Honestly if the S2 custom 24 used core pickups most of these discussions would probably go away...

Yep !

 

[Broseph]

I feel like for Jumping up to the S2 ya gotta go McCarty or Vela. The stand outs of that class. But that’s my personal opinion.

 

[NBW]

I only have SEs, CU24, 35th Anny, and hollowbody II. I’ve tried a few S2s and a few cores. But I can’t bring myself to spend the extra money. My SE’s have all been upgraded to the point I have S2 level money in them, but the Mann parts are worth it.

I’d go core for something special with a rosewood neck. But my play would have to get a lot better.

 

[grausch]

As much as I love my Bernie, the S2 Singlecut is just a better guitar. Rolled fretboard edges, smoother fretboard and smoother frets. I have already upgraded several things on the Bernie (bone nut, locking tuners and ABM bridge). Have already bought the electronics - still need to do the upgrade, but don’t see a pressing need as everything works fine and it sounds ok. That being said, with the electronics, I am already close to the price of the S2 Singlecut Satin Standard.

Where I really feel the difference though is everything relating to the fretboard. With the same strings, bends on the Singlecut just feel much smoother. Both guitars get Gorgomyte at each string change and the Bernie will be getting the micro mesh treatment at the next one too. The S2 just does not need it.

Short version: Since I got my first S2, I have not bought another SE.

 

[TheWeez]

Man I'm glad I found this thread. I've been trying to decide whether I want to pay for the S2 Custom 24 08 or pay half of that for the SE. I have two SE's currently, Custom 24 and Custom 24 Floyd Rose. I love both of them, but like some have said, the fretwork and the nut on the SE has a bit to be desired. The Floyd SE is great and stays in tune like any good guitar with a Floyd Rose. When I first started looking, I was hoping the S2 models would have the same electronics as the Core and CE models, only to find it's basically the same as the SE. I love both of my SE's, but I can clearly see room for improvement. After reading everything here, I'm going to bite the bullet and get the S2 Custom 24 08 (if it's ever available).

Thanks all for the great info.

 

[László]

The things we value in an instrument are all different, our brains, ears and hands are all unique, our playing is personal, our abilities vary, and our playing styles and ideal tones are all over the place.

In other words, there's no pat answer to the question, how is guitar X better than guitar Y?

It isn't better; there's no better, there's only what works best for you. All of this stuff is subjective. It's like arguing over who makes the best pizza, or who's the best person to fall in love with.

I have a handful of PS guitars. They feel fabulous and sound amazing - to me - but I couldn't explain why I prefer them to my Core models in a million years, or what's better about them. All I can say is, "This works best for me." And yet, I still love my Core models for different reasons.

The only way to know whether the details of an S2 work better than an SE for you is to compare them and see what works. I realize this isn't always easy, but it's still the right answer.

Also, I would never try to convince someone that my choice is a better choice for them, because I know it isn't. It's just a different choice.

EXCEPT when it comes to tube amps vs modelers. Because we all know modelers are the handiwork of Satan.

 

[TheWeez]

I couldn't have said it better myself. My "professional" playing days are pretty much over and I've whittled my collection of guitars down to a select six that I can't live without. Owning and absolutely loving the SE Custom 24's I have, my brain is comparing a Squire Strat to an American Standard Strat. I find a very distinct difference in quality, playability, woods, sound, etc. Being that there are no S2 Custom 24 08's available anywhere at the moment, I may head to my local Guitar Center and check out an S2 Custom 24 to compare.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Draconomics]

EXCEPT when it comes to tube amps vs modelers. Because we all know modelers are the handiwork of Satan.

This. While I do like some modelers, I find myself spending copious amounts of time trying to iron out the crustiness of distorted tones. Case in point, last night I got to demo NI's Guitar Rig 6. It's as bad as I remember the old ones being.

 

[RaulSmeedPith]

Every time I've had a chance to play comparable SE and S2 models side by side, I've always favored the feel of the S2. The lower cost of the SE was tempting, but I saved my change and bided my time until I found the right deal on a used S2 McCarty 594, which I picked up for less than the price of an SE Paul's Guitar.

 

[CrimesAgainstMusic]

Short version: Since I got my first S2, I have not bought another SE.

I guess that is true for me too...

After buying an S2 McCarty 594 Thinline... I have not bought, or even had "GAS" for another SE. Largely because of the "wide-thin" neck carves that predominate in the SE line (and 85/15S pickups) that seem to be on every SE...

Now I know there's gotta be SE's with different neck carves and pickups, (Starla/ Vela ?) but so far, those have not resonated with me ...

What I would like to see is an SE McCarty 594, with the Pattern Thin/ Pattern Regular neck carve (Not Pattern Vintage, as cool as it may be ... It ain't for me) and have this guitar come in at around $800 ... or less (The SE / DGT will sell for a Kilobuck, watch)

Even SE's are now getting expensive. The day of the $500 SE NEW ... is long gone, as the success of the line has shown PRS... they can charge more...

But Hey... even if I had Musk /Bezos $$$, I would nor spend $4 to $6K for a guitar. There are simply too many examples today, of well made instruments, chock full of all the goodies (or goodies that can be added on aftermarket) to make a guitar that performs as well a any costing 10 X as much. Its a hobby for me. Not a profession. But I have to think... even hardened every day gigging pros (who have to keep tool costs down to make a profit) , are aware of this too.

What I 'd really like to see, is what a Sire version of a 594 McCarty would be like. After copping their T7 Tele clone ... Wow ...

Before all the Minions jump in and start bashing "Cheap Asian Knock Offs" , ... EVERYBODY in the industry rips everybody off (save for Headstock design) , ... And even there, Fender ripped off somebody (Bigsby ???) for the now famous Fender Strat headstock ,,, And my Fav PRS is named after a Gibson exec ?

Anyone making humbuckers, ripped off Gibson and Seth Lover ... so

I have discovered what I will call high value / low to moderate cost guitars (And I ain't even gonna mention the name they sell under for fear of being drowned in the PRS Kool Aid Vat ) and others like Sire and even EART that are really offering satisfactory to great instruments for the $$$

And that is what has me gassing nowadays ...

 

[Draconomics]

Every time I've had a chance to play comparable SE and S2 models side by side, I've always favored the feel of the S2. The lower cost of the SE was tempting, but I saved my change and bided my time until I found the right deal on a used S2 McCarty 594, which I picked up for less than the price of an SE Paul's Guitar.

I think my general rule of thumb is, if you can score a used S2 for cheaper than a new SE, do it. I've seen a few roll thru Dave's Guitar Shop for good prices, but I already bought my Pauls SE and 35th, and the CU22 by that point. I have no regrets though, the are all fantastic instruments. If you get real lucky, you may find used CE's for around the same price area.

 

[Broseph]

all things considered: I love the s2 carves over SE carves. Makes playing much more enjoyable for me. The nitro finish in newer S2 is also a huge plus.

 

[Draconomics]

all things considered: I love the s2 carves over SE carves. Makes playing much more enjoyable for me. The nitro finish in newer S2 is also a huge plus.

I dig the S2 carves, buuuuut I've taken a shine to the shallow violin carve on certain SEs. It's pretty comfortable. I have a soltero that has a violin carve and uh...it hurts sometimes.

 

[grausch]

I guess that is true for me too...

Funny to see my old post quoted. Guess it is time for a little bit of an update…

When it comes to my guitars, the Bernie is the one currently getting by far the most playtime. I changed the string gauge from 9-42 to 10-46 and raised the action slightly. This change really made the guitar much more suited to my playstyle. Don’t feel that the frets need anything special anymore. Playing the guitar a lot has smoothed them out. That being said the S2 Singlecut can have lower string action without buzz, but at my ability level, the action on the Bernie isn’t the limiting factor.

With the S2 lineup now moving away from the Pattern Regular neck shape and with prices increasing, I find them to be somewhat less appealing. If I was buying new now (limited to S2 and SE) and if budget did not matter, I would probably get a SE DGT and a SE Santana. With a little bit of cash and/or a little bit of work, I am pretty sure I can get them to S2 level. At current price levels, I could splurge on SS jumbo frets, locking tuners and a new nut and be roughly at the price of a S2 Satin. This makes it a much tougher decision for me.

The S2 still has some advantages though, namely 1) they are available in Eriza Verde, 2) Eriza Verde…drool…, 3) the nice USA jackplate comes standard (you can upgrade this on the SE but will have visible holes in the finish) and 4) already pretty much perfect out of the box.

All of that just to say, that a nicely upgraded SE can be in the same ballpark as the S2 and should still work out cheaper unless you splurge on a SS refret.

 

[Jimmy]

If your forearms are sensitive to hard edges, you’re almost forced to get an S2 for the arm contour. I loved my SEs, but that pressure point on the violin carve started driving me nuts. Know I’m in the minority there though.

 

[Wyzard]

If your forearms are sensitive to hard edges, you’re almost forced to get an S2 for the arm contour. I loved my SEs, but that pressure point on the violin carve started driving me nuts. Know I’m in the minority there though.

I'm in that minority too.

 

[opnoob]

I'm of the camp that sees electric guitars as pretty simple things that are over marketed to a very nostalgically sensitive group of people. There's a lot of snake oil in this industry, and the diminishing returns for more money spent is unlike anything I've ever seen in the hobby world. Basically, they are more expensive because either the materials used are more costly or the manufacturing process is more costly. Neither of these things guarantee better performance in the slightest. And the difference between poverty spec guitars and high end guitars has never been smaller. And continues to get smaller every year.

Now does that stop me from "overspending" on niche models? No, because for one reason or another they just tickle my fancy. And for most with Neanderthal sized brains like mine, that's enough to justify excessively overpaying for something with neglibly better performance.

In the end, it depends on what your buying a guitar for. I like admiring my guitars as much as I like playing them. There as much works of art as they are tools for me. For some, they are just tools, for some they are just art. Just don't get suckered into thinking more $$$$ means better performance, cut and dry. Gotta buy what you like and what makes you happy.

 

[CrimesAgainstMusic]

I'm of the camp that sees electric guitars as pretty simple things that are over marketed to a very nostalgically sensitive group of people. There's a lot of snake oil in this industry, and the diminishing returns for more money spent is unlike anything I've ever seen in the hobby world. Basically, they are more expensive because either the materials used are more costly or the manufacturing process is more costly. Neither of these things guarantee better performance in the slightest. And the difference between poverty spec guitars and high end guitars has never been smaller. And continues to get smaller every year.

Now does that stop me from "overspending" on niche models? No, because for one reason or another they just tickle my fancy. And for most with Neanderthal sized brains like mine, that's enough to justify excessively overpaying for something with neglibly better performance.

In the end, it depends on what your buying a guitar for. I like admiring my guitars as much as I like playing them. There as much works of art as they are tools for me. For some, they are just tools, for some they are just art. Just don't get suckered into thinking more $$$$ means better performance, cut and dry. Gotta buy what you like and what makes you happy.

Rite On ! (Have you even been a High End Audiophile ?) Re: diminishing returns or tons of $$$ for grams of "improvement"
I think buying the megabuck ,finely finished guitar is a cool thing, if it maximizes your "utility" ... in an economic sense . That being , people generally spend their money, on things that give them the most satisfaction ...

Like buying the $1000 + moving coil phono cartridge (insane, but I will do it) They do sound better ...But Geezopizza !

But when you can find a moderately priced, high bang for the buck line (NAD, PS Audio, Dynaco) ...grab it and run !

They will sound 90% as good as your buddy's McIntosh, Krell , or Mark Levinson, and you can still pay the gas bill at the end of the month !

But every once in awhile ... The Kool Aid jones kicks in ...and you bite on the high priced spread ... and hold it dear !

 

[opnoob]

Rite On ! (Have you even been a High End Audiophile ?) Re: diminishing returns or tons of $$$ for grams of "improvement"
I think buying the megabuck ,finely finished guitar is a cool thing, if it maximizes your "utility" ... in an economic sense . That being , people generally spend their money, on things that give them the most satisfaction ...

Like buying the $1000 + moving coil phono cartridge (insane, but I will do it) They do sound better ...But Geezopizza !

But when you can find a moderately priced, high bang for the buck line (NAD, PS Audio, Dynaco) ...grab it and run !

They will sound 90% as good as your buddy's McIntosh, Krell , or Mark Levinson, and you can still pay the gas bill at the end of the month !

But every once in awhile ... The Kool Aid jones kicks in ...and you bite on the high priced spread ... and hold it dear !

No, but I'm scared to even look at what that price to performance graph even looks like as I've seen some of the prices on high end audiophile gear. I am looking for a pair of nice studio speakers for my recording set up, any recommendations?

 

[CrimesAgainstMusic]

No , I have been out of the market for too long to know what is cool today. Back in the day, everyone wanted to emulate the Rogers LS 3/5a . I liked Linn Kan's (with a subwoofer) , as they were small (but accurate ) loudspeakers ...

If Polk Audio is still around, they would probably make a decent cost effective set ...

Boy ... did you trigger a crazyvein in me : I mentioned the Rogers from memory. To check my recollection, I launched into Google to "check facts " ! So I Gogled , and found this :

"Monitors are used by almost all professional producers and audio engineers. The claimed advantage of studio monitors is that the production translates better to other sound systems.[16] In the 1970s, the JBL 4311's domestic equivalent, the L-100, was used in a large number of homes, while the Yamaha NS-10 served both domestically and professionally during the 1980s. Despite not being a "commercial product" at the outset, the BBC licensed production of the LS3/5A monitor, which it used internally. It was commercially successful in its twenty-something-year life,[9][17] from 1975 until approximately 1998. The diminutive BBC speaker has amassed an "enthusiastic, focused, and ... loyal following", according to Paul Seydor in The Absolute Sound.[18] Estimates of their sales differ, but are generally in the 100,000 pairs ballpark.[18][19]"

I remember seeing the JBL 100 in Hi-Fi stores back in the '70s ...
And apparently, todays studio monitor is "active " meaning they have baby amps built in (Don't ask a Linn Isobarik freak about going "active" ( 3 NAP 250's or better yet 6 NAP 135 !!!) (You could buy a few PRS Core for that outlay )

But I think for a home recording rig, almost anything that sounds decent to your ears will suffice. Remember that our guitars , are extremely "bandwith limited" (No Bass below 80 Hz, and maybe some high frequencies, but mainly a mid range instrument)