Buffing out scratches on my PRS using Virtuoso cleaner/polish; advice needed

[starbelly]

Hey all,

I recently noticed that my PRS CE24 (with nitro finish) has some very notable scratches on the body below the bridge. No idea what may have caused them, but I’d like to try to buff them out. Based on a few posts I read here, I ordered some Virtuoso guitar cleaning products, including the cleaner, polish, and cleaning cloth. Given that I don’t want to screw this up, I was hoping I could get some tips to help me succeed here. I had a few questions:

-How much pressure should I use? I’ve read from different people that I should focus on light pressure, but others say heavy pressure.

-For those familiar with Virtuoso products, which should I use first: the polish or the cleaner? I read to try to use the lower grit one first, and I assume that’s the cleaner, to see if I can get the job done with just that.

-What risks are there at somehow making things worse by introducing swirling or other blemishes? Anything I should avoid?

Any other tips would be much appreciated! I’d also be curious to hear from @László if you had any sage wisdom to help me do this right

 

[Greywolf]

While I haven't used those specific products , I've be at this for 41 years so my 2 cents.:
If the scratches are deep, depending on the finish material either Nitro applied with an eye dropper or the thin super glue Stew Mac sells for luthiers. Once that is cured , depending on severity and access, a fresh razor scrape GENTLY, followed by 2000-3000 grit WET paper , then luthiers polishing compound .

If the scratches aren't deep , I go gentle and try luthiers polishing compound by hand or whatever your least abrasive option is . It's amazing with gentle patience what you can achieve. Remember wherever you start in the process , you are trying NOT to introduce more damage.
If the finest grit isn't cutting it , move to the next , frequently checking .

I prefer using my hands so I can feel the progress, people like using buffers and that has it's place , but in repair I find it less beneficial

I've followed this process with everything from vintage Archtops to stage abused rockers.

Take it slow . The BIGGEST problem folks have with finishes in general is impatience

 

[deathworlder]

Pics of scratches?

I use Meguiars Ultimate rubbing compound and polish on my poly finished SEs. Does the job and I have a lot of experience with those two products. The biggest mistake I see people make, is using too much product; the compounds never gets a chance to break down.

 

[MarcWink]

While I haven't used those specific products , I've be at this for 41 years so my 2 cents.:
If the scratches are deep, depending on the finish material either Nitro applied with an eye dropper or the thin super glue Stew Mac sells for luthiers. Once that is cured , depending on severity and access, a fresh razor scrape GENTLY, followed by 2000-3000 grit WET paper , then luthiers polishing compound .

If the scratches aren't deep , I go gentle and try luthiers polishing compound by hand or whatever your least abrasive option is . It's amazing with gentle patience what you can achieve. Remember wherever you start in the process , you are trying NOT to introduce more damage.
If the finest grit isn't cutting it , move to the next , frequently checking .

I prefer using my hands so I can feel the progress, people like using buffers and that has it's place , but in repair I find it less beneficial

I've followed this process with everything from vintage Archtops to stage abused rockers.

Take it slow . The BIGGEST problem folks have with finishes in general is impatience

I completely agree with the above. Buffing scratches out of a guitar is a very similar process to buffing scratches out of a car, however, the finish is MUCH more delicate (nitro is anyway). Start with whatever is your least abrasive product, and you may even want to have your application medium slightly damp to further reduce "cut" to some extent. Be patient. Better to take several passes of very low abrasive than to start too aggressive. Remember, you can always take material off, but you can't put it back.

 

[deathworlder]

While I haven't used those specific products , I've be at this for 41 years so my 2 cents.:
If the scratches are deep, depending on the finish material either Nitro applied with an eye dropper or the thin super glue Stew Mac sells for luthiers. Once that is cured , depending on severity and access, a fresh razor scrape GENTLY, followed by 2000-3000 grit WET paper , then luthiers polishing compound .

If the scratches aren't deep , I go gentle and try luthiers polishing compound by hand or whatever your least abrasive option is . It's amazing with gentle patience what you can achieve. Remember wherever you start in the process , you are trying NOT to introduce more damage.
If the finest grit isn't cutting it , move to the next , frequently checking .

I prefer using my hands so I can feel the progress, people like using buffers and that has it's place , but in repair I find it less beneficial

I've followed this process with everything from vintage Archtops to stage abused rockers.

Take it slow . The BIGGEST problem folks have with finishes in general is impatience

On your builds; you hand polish? If not, do use a wheel or handheld?

 

[JasonE]

The first thing you need to know is what is the finish. Depending on the year of the guitar, it could have poly or nitro on it. They are quite different when it comes to buffing.

Another thing to know is that PRS tries to keep their finishes as thin as possible. That means that you may rub through the finish if you are not careful.

There is another thing that is good to get into your head and that is what is actually happening here. Unless you apply more finish or super glue as Greywolf suggested for deep scratches you are not going to get more finish to work with. You are basically using compound and pressure to create heat to melt the remaining finish to fill the scratches. That thins the finish in that area. I explained this to my son-in-law when showing him how to buff car paint. Most people either don't know this or haven't thought it through. Keeping this in mind should help with being patient and taking it slow. You don't want to buff through to the wood or it will probably take a full refinish to make it look right again.

 

[Greywolf]

I hand buff all of mine , I have used a drill based buffer , but I prefer the old school way

 

[Eseffinga]

Be clean. Stay clean. Work in a clean environment. Use clean tools.
Make sure the cloth you use to apply anything is clean clean clean.
Probably more than obvious, but use different cloths for different compounds.

The Virtuoso polish has more of an abrasive so you start there. Go slow. Take your time.

Depends on exactly what you are looking at doing, but removing parts that are in the way, and making it easy to get around and be consistent is better than trying to work around things like bridges, knobs, etc. So if the scratches are only in the open areas of a body, you may not need to worry about it. But if you get into it and you make a nice clean polished area in say the forearm space, and notice that under the strings or around the knobs don't look as good...

 

[starbelly]

Pics of scratches?

Kind of hard to capture, but there are almost these two parallel lines of scratches running under the length of the bridge.

https://imgur.com/a/jlOWVQn

The first thing you need to know is what is the finish. Depending on the year of the guitar, it could have poly or nitro on it. They are quite different when it comes to buffing.

It’s a 2021 CE24, so it’s a nitro finish.

The Virtuoso polish has more of an abrasive so you start there. Go slow. Take your time.

So the polish has more of the abrasive? I’ve seen tips to start with the one with less abrasive just to see if the job can be done that way.

Broadly speaking, I’m really wanting to make sure I use appropriate pressure and technique when doing this. Any tips there?

 

[ElrytNamrogo]

I'd start with the less abrasive stuff just to see...but from the picture, it looks like its going to require both. Also, being right behind the bridge like that, it's going to be tough to get in there and get even hand movement without bumping into the bridge.

If you feel confident enough, I'd take the bridge out and go to work on it. It's going to take several applications, so take your time and feel it out as you go as to how much pressure you need to be using.

 

[starbelly]

I'd start with the less abrasive stuff just to see

I guess one thing I’d want confirmation on is which of the two Virtuoso products is the less abrasive one. Their website doesn’t seem to indicate whether the cleaner or the polish is the less abrasive one (based on a quick glance, at least).

 

[Bogner]

As @Greywolf Said, The Tortoise Wins This Race. Take Your Time And Work Slowly.

 

[JasonE]

I guess one thing I’d want confirmation on is which of the two Virtuoso products is the less abrasive one. Their website doesn’t seem to indicate whether the cleaner or the polish is the less abrasive one (based on a quick glance, at least).

From what I am reading on their site, both use a chemical reaction and no abrasion. That makes me think that they are not going to be an effective way to buff the scratches.

If I were doing this with car products, I would use a Maguire's #7 or #9 on it.

About our Products - The Virtuoso Group, Inc.

Virtuoso Premium Polish and Virtuoso Premium Cleaner are two superior musical instrument care products that were especially developed for vintage

virtuosopolish.com

 

[starbelly]

From what I am reading on their site, both use a chemical reaction and no abrasion. That makes me think that they are not going to be an effective way to buff the scratches.

I’ve read in numerous threads in this forum how the Virtuoso products are great for buffing out scratches for nitro finished guitars. See here for an example:
Post in thread 'Buff out swirl marks'
https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/buff-out-swirl-marks.50671/post-692525

 

[JasonE]

I’ve read in numerous threads in this forum how the Virtuoso products are great for buffing out scratches for nitro finished guitars. See here for an example:
Post in thread 'Buff out swirl marks'
https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/buff-out-swirl-marks.50671/post-692525

Hopefully it works. If Les said he has had good results, I believe him. I would expect from reading their site, it is going to take a while to see some results. It looks like the cleaner is the more aggressive of the two.

 

[Eseffinga]

Kind of hard to capture, but there are almost these two parallel lines of scratches running under the length of the bridge.

https://imgur.com/a/jlOWVQn

It’s a 2021 CE24, so it’s a nitro finish.

So the polish has more of the abrasive? I’ve seen tips to start with the one with less abrasive just to see if the job can be done that way.

Broadly speaking, I’m really wanting to make sure I use appropriate pressure and technique when doing this. Any tips there?

Sorry, brain fart. Cleaner first then polish.
It should state the order on the bottle, but I’m pretty sure that’s the order.

 

[ElrytNamrogo]

I guess one thing I’d want confirmation on is which of the two Virtuoso products is the less abrasive one. Their website doesn’t seem to indicate whether the cleaner or the polish is the less abrasive one (based on a quick glance, at least).

I'm not familiar with Virtuoso polish, but I do use this stuff which has worked great for all of my PRS guitars (poly and nitro finished).

Guitar Scratch Remover Polish

Guitar Polish and Scratch Remover by Eternashine

www.guitarscratchremover.com

Really basic, here....I start with the #1 polish, move to #2, and then finish with the #1 again. I've achieved fantastic results with this stuff.

 

[starbelly]

UPDATE!

I finally got some time to try out the Virtuoso cleaning products, and I’m incredibly impressed with the results! I spent about an hour alternating between the heavier cleaner (on the back it says to use this for scratches) and the polish, taking my time and working slowly. At this point, the really unsightly parallel lines of scratches underneath the bridge (and some trailing off onto the body towards where your arm would rest) are completely gone. I was not anticipating it working this well! I’ll have to see how this product works on non-nitro finishes, because it’s seriously awesome.

 

[bodia]

UPDATE!

I finally got some time to try out the Virtuoso cleaning products, and I’m incredibly impressed with the results! I spent about an hour alternating between the heavier cleanser (on the back it says to use this for scratches) and the polish, taking my time and working slowly. At this point, the really unsightly parallel lines of scratches underneath the bridge (and some trailing off onto the body towards where your arm would rest) are completely gone. I was not anticipating it working this well! I’ll have to see how this product works on non-nitro finishes, because it’s seriously awesome.

That’s awesome. Glad that stuff worked well.

 

[JasonE]

Good to see it is working. I may have a use for something like this in the near future. I think one of my guitars has some pick scratches on it but I can't remember for sure. I haven't had it out for a while, too long. I plan on pulling it out in the near future and if what i remember is there, I am going to try something like this to get them out. I think that is a poly finished guitar if memory serves me, which these days isn't always the case.