Why the nitro switch?

[Longneck Tenon]

I don't think I've ever seen an explanation for why the change. Not trying to start a debate, just genuinely curious. Were people requesting it? Is there a supposed tonal improvement?

Modern formulations and equipment can get extremely thin and durable poly finishes so it seems, at least to me, like a side step for such a forward looking company.

I have a nasty head cold and probably am not thinking clearly, but when I saw the title for this thread “Why the Nitro Switch?” I initially thought, is this a special “Fast and Furious” edition model?

 

[Max Headroom]

No but i once had an Explorer (love those guitars!) and I think the previous owner must have given his cat the guitar case for a litter box because I could never get that smell out of there.

When he asked me if I would sell it back to him I did!

He'd put a Kahler on it which kinda ruined it for me anyway...that and the cat residue.

That's actually quite apt...
I put all my guitar cases and gig bags under a bed in a spare bedroom.
Well I dragged a gig bag out couple of days ago to find it covered in cat hair.
It appears one or more of my cats think they make a comfy bed....

A lot of cleaning and moving of cases, bags ensued on Saturday!

All were closed and zipped shut so just external but still annoying...lol

 

[László]

All of my current PRS' have nitro finishes; that was not always the case - most of them were poly (including V12 and other formulations) over the past 32 years.

For a long time I thought the 'nitro sounds different/better' stuff was pure hype.

I was wrong.

When PRS came out with the original nitro-finished DGT back in 2008 (?), I was curious and picked one up to play unplugged during a visit to Chicago Music Exchange. At the time I had my usual 4-5 PRS' in my studio, and they were all poly at the time.

But I also owned a '65 SG Special since my brother gave it to me in 1967 (still around on loan to my son), and I've owned other Gibsons. It didn't occur to me that part of the vintage Gibson sound was the dang nitro finish, at least to that degree.

The moment I took the first strum on that DGT -- unplugged -- I said, "Something about this reminds me of vintage guitars, especially Gibsons I've owned currently and in the past." I was surprised, to put it mildly. I could hear that it was different from my poly-finished PRS' immediately.

I wanted that sound on the Private Stocks I ordered, and got it. I was also really happy when PRS switched to nitro for their Core models, and I'm all-nitro finished PRS' now.

I'd also like to say that the finish looks a little different from poly; it reflects the light a little differently.

All this, of course, is mere personal preference. I would never claim nitro sounds better. Just that it sounds different. PRS made the right move here, in my opinion.

I don't know for sure why nitro sounds different. Maybe the wood vibrates differently or more freely under the nitro than it does under a hard poly finish. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[JasonE]

All of my current PRS' have nitro finishes; that was not always the case - most of them were poly (including V12 and other formulations) over the past 32 years.

For a long time I thought the 'nitro sounds different/better' stuff was pure hype.

I was wrong.

When PRS came out with the original nitro-finished DGT back in 2008 (?), I was curious and picked one up to play unplugged during a visit to Chicago Music Exchange. At the time I had my usual 4-5 PRS' in my studio, and they were all poly at the time.

But I also owned a '65 SG Special since my brother gave it to me in 1967 (still around on loan to my son), and I've owned other Gibsons. It didn't occur to me that part of the vintage Gibson sound was the dang nitro finish, at least to that degree.

The moment I took the first strum on that DGT -- unplugged -- I said, "Something about this reminds me of vintage guitars, especially Gibsons I've owned currently and in the past." I was surprised, to put it mildly. I could hear that it was different from my poly-finished PRS' immediately.

I wanted that sound on the Private Stocks I ordered, and got it. I was also really happy when PRS switched to nitro for their Core models, and I'm all-nitro finished PRS' now.

I'd also like to say that the finish looks a little different from poly; it reflects the light a little differently.

All this, of course, is mere personal preference. I would never claim nitro sounds better. Just that it sounds different. PRS made the right move here, in my opinion.

I don't know for sure why nitro sounds different. Maybe the wood vibrates differently or more freely under the nitro than it does under a hard poly finish. Pure speculation on my part.

This is interesting. I have a Ted single cut that just sounds better than pretty much every single cut I have put it up against. I always just attributed it to "this is one that went together right." I have played a few guitars in my life that just had something that really worked about them and everyone that picked it up felt and heard it. I have let a few other people play this Ted and everyone says it has a magic to it. It has a nitro finish on it. I now wonder if that has something to do with it.

I now also wonder what finish PRS used on the DGT through the years. I am pretty sure mine is the V12 finish. I am now wondering if they stayed with nitro on the DGT or if it truly is the V12 finish. Mine is also a special run guitar from Wildwood and I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

 

[Lewguitar]

My '95 CU22 seemed to have a thick finish. And there was a slight "white" haze where it was worn or or where the edges were chipped. The guy who owned it before me rode it hard!

https://imgur.com/B6LJxYn

Looks good in the photos but it's all chipped up and the chrome or nickel plating on the bridge is half rubbed off.

I suspected the finish was poly right away, but I loved the way the guitar played and sounded.

I disliked the way the finish looked and felt tho. A little like it had been dipped in plastic. A little.

Oddly, my '95 and '97 and '00 CE22's do not feel or look like poly.

Maybe they are, but the finish is not so thick on those three.

 

[László]

This is interesting. I have a Ted single cut that just sounds better than pretty much every single cut I have put it up against. I always just attributed it to "this is one that went together right." I have played a few guitars in my life that just had something that really worked about them and everyone that picked it up felt and heard it. I have let a few other people play this Ted and everyone says it has a magic to it. It has a nitro finish on it. I now wonder if that has something to do with it.

I now also wonder what finish PRS used on the DGT through the years. I am pretty sure mine is the V12 finish. I am now wondering if they stayed with nitro on the DGT or if it truly is the V12 finish. Mine is also a special run guitar from Wildwood and I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

It's interesting as heck that the Ted is the one people like the tone of best. Could indeed be the finish!

I think for a while DGTs came in whatever finish the other Core models were using, and then they went back to the nitro.

 

[László]

My '95 CU22 seemed to have a thick finish. And there was a slight "white" haze where it was worn or or where the edges were chipped. The guy who owned it before me rode it hard!

https://imgur.com/B6LJxYn

Looks good in the photos but it's all chipped up and the chrome or nickel plating on the bridge is half rubbed off.

I suspected the finish was poly right away, but I loved the way the guitar played and sounded.

I disliked the way the finish looked and felt tho. A little like it had been dipped in plastic. A little.

Oddly, my '95 and '97 and '00 CE22's do not feel or look like poly.

Maybe they are, but the finish is not so thick on those three.

Cores were all poly finished except for a few special runs during until they switched to nitro, as I understand it.

 

[JasonE]

Cores were all poly finished except for a few special runs during until they switched to nitro, as I understand it.

I am not sure what the V12 finish is considered to be. I know they went from poly to V12 then to Nitro over poly, CAB.

 

[László]

I am not sure what the V12 finish is considered to be. I know they went from poly to V12 then to Nitro over poly, CAB.

I was told the V12 was different from their earlier poly finish formulations, and could be sprayed thinner. However, when Shawn was active on the forum and still at PRS, he said that there were several different poly finish formulations over the years, including a few since V12, and prior to the new nitro finish.

The SAS, CU22 Soapbar and first-gen CE models always had nitro finished necks, as I understand it. My early-2000s SAS and CU22 Soapbar had them.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Nothing wrong with poly as long as it's not applied to thick (something you see more commonly on imports which I think is kind of where the negative views towards poly come from).

I actually had assumed that PRS always used nitro, I was surprised when I found out that my '00 cu22 would actually be poly. Nice and thinly applied though. I'm cool with both my poly and nitro PRS guitars

 

[Rod/]

I can definitely hear the difference of nitro compared to their poly finishes… The nitro just sounds like the guitar is older. I can’t exactly explain it, but I can hear it and feel the response of the guitar more

 

[MohnJayer]

Had a sweet smell on my two Heritage guitars but my CU24 is very fishy.

The fishy smell comes from the (Tung) oil used on the fretboard. It will go away when it polymerizes.

 

[JasonE]

It's interesting as heck that the Ted is the one people like the tone of best. Could indeed be the finish!

I think for a while DGTs came in whatever finish the other Core models were using, and then they went back to the nitro.

I did a single cut shootout with a friend of mine. I had some nice guitars there. The Ted was one of them. We both picked it over everything that was there, including my SC-58. Where this gets interesting is that the Ted and the SC-58 have 57/08 pickups in them. They are very similar guitars. The Ted has the one piece wrap around bridge and the SC-58 has the two piece bridge. I will have to pull these two guitars out again some time in the near future and check them against each other again. I had a finish issue with the SC-58 and PRS refinished it under warrantee and it has the new nitro finish on it. These two guitars may be much closer to each other if the finish is really a factor in this. The SC-58 had the V12 finish on it before it was refinished.

I was told the V12 was different from their earlier poly finish formulations, and could be sprayed thinner. However, when Shawn was active on the forum and still at PRS, he said that there were several different poly finish formulations over the years, including a few since V12, and prior to the new nitro finish.

The SAS, CU22 Soapbar and first-gen CE models always had nitro finished necks, as I understand it. My early-2000s SAS and CU22 Soapbar had them.

I can confirm that the SAS had nitro on the neck. Mine is a 2006 and it definitely has nitro on the neck. It has some play wear on it that you would expect on a neck finished with nitro. I put every bit of that wear on it.

 

[Rod/]

I have a couple nitro over CAB PRS' and compared to Gibson CS and Fender CS the PRS nitro feels and looks more like poly. PRS lacquer might have more plasticizers to make it more durable (unlike MJT who use lacquer so brittle that it will check if you give it a harsh look).

I'm not sure it matters much for tone as some high end boutique acoustics have used poly for a long time. I suspect it's more that the high-end guitar buyers expect "lacquer" on the spec sheet.

I had an MJT Strat body/Warmoth neck “nos” body and sold it a year later and 1/4 of the finish was flaking off and it never left my studio! . The guy who bought it thought it was a cool relic job!

 

[Lewguitar]

I had an MJT Strat body/Warmoth neck “nos” body and sold it a year later and 1/4 of the finish was flaking off and it never left my studio! . The guy who bought it thought it was a cool relic job!

I have two MJT guitars, a Strat and a Tele, that he finished but USA Customs made.

The MJT Strat is the nicest Strat I own. Custom Shop quality, but I don't mention it much because this is a PRS sponsored site and PRS makes Silver Skys...which I also play and like.

Mark Jenny does nice finishes that look appropriate on Fender style builds and I like the way they crack and check.

Don't think I'd like that on a PRS because that's not what PRS's tend to look like even when they're 30 years old.

I just bought the parts for a MJT Tele yesterday. It's all prefinished. Should go together quickly.

My brother asked me to "build" him a Tele. But it's more like assembling a Tele and setting it up.

To me, this looks good!

https://imgur.com/zQgs087

 

[László]

I can definitely hear the difference of nitro compared to their poly finishes… The nitro just sounds like the guitar is older. I can’t exactly explain it, but I can hear it and feel the response of the guitar more

Same here. There's a difference, but all I can say about it is that the sound is more vintage. Other than that, can't put it into words.

 

[László]

I can confirm that the SAS had nitro on the neck. Mine is a 2006 and it definitely has nitro on the neck. It has some play wear on it that you would expect on a neck finished with nitro. I put every bit of that wear on it.

Here an interesting tidbit: The nitro on the necks of the earlier bolt on models and CU22 Soapbar was different from the nitro formulation they're using now, even though both are nitro.

It felt more like the stuff you found on Gibbys, the new PRS Core stuff is harder and (to my eye) more uniformly applied. The new doesn't get sticky in humid weather on any of my guitars that have or have had it.

For all that, I also loved the sound of my poly finished PRS', and the nitro finish isn't why I got the ones I have, it's just an 'icing on the cake' thing.

 

[ViperDoc]

I've always heard nitrocellulose is better on an acoustic guitar vs. heavier finishes, but its superiority on solid bodies is probably debatable. I've never looked at my guitar wishing it had less finish on it. But then, I'm 100% nitro on my PS guitars, so if it's better, so be it. I can't tell, myself. But I do love the nitro/BRZ combination, speaking of case whiff. WOW.

 

[JasonE]

Here an interesting tidbit: The nitro on the necks of the earlier bolt on models and CU22 Soapbar was different from the nitro formulation they're using now, even though both are nitro.

It felt more like the stuff you found on Gibbys, the new PRS Core stuff is harder and (to my eye) more uniformly applied. The new doesn't get sticky in humid weather on any of my guitars that have or have had it.

For all that, I also loved the sound of my poly finished PRS', and the nitro finish isn't why I got the ones I have, it's just an 'icing on the cake' thing.

I knew they had been changing nitro formula over the years. I haven't really had any stickiness issues on my SAS neck. I honestly don't know that I hear a difference in the poly finish, V12 or nitro on my PRS guitars. There may be a difference that I am just attributing to the different wood chunks and electronics in them.

 

[Mozzi]

From my perspective, it seems that the Market has driven this decision - the 'expectation' of Nitro on High End guitars and the fact that budget guitars are poly finished must mean that the Market sees Poly as 'cheap'. Its almost the same as saying all guitars over a certain price should have Stainless Steel Frets, Hard Cases, Nitro finishes and don't use ceramic Magnet Pups either etc

Just as Nitro can vary in Formula between Companies, so can Poly too and as mentioned, the thickness of the Finish matters. Not all Nitro is created equal and neither is Poly. I think of Nitro as being a 'softer' finish which may well contribute to a 'softer/more vintage' sound - as if the edges have been rounded off a bit more with wear, the magnets aren't as powerful etc.

I personally prefer the thin but excellent 'Poly' finish PRS was using before they switched to CAB over Nitro. I have seen some guitars where the 'nitro' has worn away so I wonder if the Nitro over the top is just for the smell...

I've never had a sticky neck with the Poly finish of PRS and actually find Nitro to be more sticky...