Question for Shawn@PRS

[danktat]

Just wondering. As much as many of us post our instruments, how do you feel about it when we purchase our instruments USED? My very first PRS was purchased new. I was working at a tattoo shop that was a few doors up from what was then Zapf's Music in Philadelphia. One of my regular clients worked there and I tattooed him for his employee discount on a brand new custom 22 (natural with 10 top). That started my love for PRS guitars. BUT, since then, every PRS I have managed to purchase has been used. And though I am pretty sure it is a good feeling for the company to know that you have a loyal following of people who love your instruments, the company as a whole doesn't make any money when we buy used instruments. In order to be viable, you have to keep selling NEW stuff. Not all of us are blessed to the point where we can afford to call you guys up and put in an order for a private stock piece, built to order to our own exacting specs. Some of us are delegated to the on line used market. Not that we love our guitars any less.....Just that we can afford less.

My question is, is it anything like Napster used to be for the record industry? You see your product enjoyed by a larger audience.....but the flip side is that you make no money on it. As a business owner, I just wonder how it is looked at from people who are with the company.

 

[dmatthews]

There are a significant number of sellers of used PRS guitars that turn around and buy another new one with that money.

 

[Herr Squid]

There are a significant number of sellers of used PRS guitars that turn around and buy another new one with that money.

Truth. But also, Paul hisself is keenly aware (and says so) that he's competing with the used market in his own guitars, and I think that has a lot to do with the limited editions, frequent updates to the product lines, and pruning of models that aren't selling.

Let's face it, this company does a hell of a good job of putting out the latest new thing and making us (well, certainly me) want it. It helps that Paul is an inveterate tinkerer and serial innovator.

 

[Johnny Rigs]

It’s looked at as a simple reality for companies that make and sell a physical product lasting many years. It’s unavoidable, and trying to avoid it would likely lead to unwise decisions.

Though it can present challenges, the used market can still accomplish things that are beneficial to a company.

 

[AP515]

IMO, PRS' stiffest competition is their own guitars. However, I think they do get a positive benefit from their guitars selling on the used market.

They may not see direct dollars, but they do widen their reputation for quality, and when people see a healthy market for the used ones they feel more confident that their investment will hold value. Lastly, the purchase of a used one only serves to instill in the addict, the desire for that which is only offered in a new one.

 

[dmatthews]

My lead player, who never thought about PRS ownership now wants a Silver Sky. He's in love with mine, but I don't want to sell.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

My lead player, who never thought about PRS ownership now wants a Silver Sky. He's in love with mine, but I don't want to sell.

Never sell, only buy.

 

[dmatthews]

Never sell, only buy.

So far I have been a complete and utter success at this philosophy. I have sold nothing.
My bass player had his way with my 594 Soapy the other night at practice. After, he said "Wow, nice guitar! How many PRS is that now, 3?"
When I answered 7, the look on his face was bewilderment.
Now... I know that number is minuscule compared to many here, but I'm working on it... Not that it's a competition or anything.
Just having fun.

 

[Shawn@PRS]

While selling new guitars and amps is what keeps us in business, we appreciate the customers who purchase our products used. We look at it as brand loyalty and we do benefit, albeit in a more indirect way.

 

[dmatthews]

While selling new guitars and amps is what keeps us in business, we appreciate the customers who purchase our products used. We look at it as brand loyalty and we do benefit, albeit in a more indirect way.

Well said sir.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

So far I have been a complete and utter success at this philosophy. I have sold nothing.
My bass player had his way with my 594 Soapy the other night at practice. After, he said "Wow, nice guitar! How many PRS is that now, 3?"
When I answered 7, the look on his face was bewilderment.
Now... I know that number is minuscule compared to many here, but I'm working on it... Not that it's a competition or anything.
Just having fun.

I’ve traded two PRS guitars... Sure, they were for other subjectively nicer PRS guitars but, I’ll never forgive myself.

 

[dmatthews]

I’ve traded two PRS guitars... Sure, they were for other subjectively nicer PRS guitars but, I’ll never forgive myself.

It's OK... you're among friends here.

 

[danktat]

While selling new guitars and amps is what keeps us in business, we appreciate the customers who purchase our products used. We look at it as brand loyalty and we do benefit, albeit in a more indirect way.

I only ask because in my business, if you want work that is mine, you actually have to come to me because it is a service instead of a product. When you are selling a durable goods kind of a product (I know of people with PRS guitars that are thirty years old), and there are a lot of them already out there being circulated, the used market (where they no longer need the company in the purchasing process) can explode based on price alone. Granted....If I were to stumble into a bunch of money, I might actually go buy new. But there are things (like guitars) that at this point in my life I am almost exclusively looking on the pre owned market. Then, to post them up on a forum like this one, I didn't know if it felt like rubbing in the fact that we got your great guitars without you getting any of the profit from it.

 

[dmatthews]

I only ask because in my business, if you want work that is mine, you actually have to come to me because it is a service instead of a product. When you are selling a durable goods kind of a product (I know of people with PRS guitars that are thirty years old), and there are a lot of them already out there being circulated, the used market (where they no longer need the company in the purchasing process) can explode based on price alone. Granted....If I were to stumble into a bunch of money, I might actually go buy new. But there are things (like guitars) that at this point in my life I am almost exclusively looking on the pre owned market. Then, to post them up on a forum like this one, I didn't know if it felt like rubbing in the fact that we got your great guitars without you getting any of the profit from it.

Understood. I get that.
The profit certainly was realized originally, but now it is a brand ambassador, and you can't buy good press.

 

[Rusty Chops]

From what I’ve seen around here (South bay SF), the prices new versus used ratios are right in line with other iconic American brands.

Used to be only a couple of the big boys kept much value in the used market. The rest of the brands well, you’d take a real bath on resale. That speaks to respect.

That is a hard earned quotient in the used guitar market. There are the big boys: then everybody else gets lumped into another market price point segment.

Kudos to PRS in achieving that status of building iconic guitars that hold their value: I think because they use all premium components and have captured hearts of value-minded players knowing the quality of what they’re holding in their hands and hearing. And that quality holds up.

I would think most any manufacturer that relies mostly on word of mouth would kill for a reputation like that. And it’s achieved in the used market.

This place is FULL of positive word of mouth.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

From what I’ve seen around here (South bay SF), the prices new versus used ratios are right in line with other iconic American brands.

Used to be only a couple of the big boys kept much value in the used market. The rest of the brands well, you’d take a real bath on resale. That speaks to respect.

That is a hard earned quotient in the used guitar market. There are the big boys: then everybody else gets lumped into another market price point segment.

Kudos to PRS in achieving that status of building iconic guitars that hold their value: I think because they use all premium components and have captured hearts of value-minded players knowing the quality of what they’re holding in their hands and hearing. And that quality holds up.

I would think most any manufacturer that relies mostly on word of mouth would kill for a reputation like that. And it’s achieved in the used market.

This place is FULL of positive word of mouth.

Not to be a contrarian but, I don’t see that at all at the moment, or at least the past few years.

One of the reasons I went from one PRS for 15-20 years, to quite literally two weeks worth of guitars now is that the used market just became ridiculously affordable, especially compared to other brands.

 

[Mozzi]

All 3 of my PRS guitars were bought new and I will be looking to add to that number in the near future. I have no intention of trading in my guitars so they won't appear on the 2nd hand market. I know that for some, buying a 'new' guitar (whether brand new or 2nd hand) may mean they have to sell first but others may have room to accumulate more guitars. I do wonder how may people though have gone on to buy 'new', buy a core after buying a 2nd hand PRS? I wonder how many people have bought a new PRS after trying a friends (whether they bought theirs new or not).

PRS haven't stood static either and continue to tweak and make improvements, bring out new models - the 594 and the Silver Sky in recent years - and have collectables - 25th, 30th anniversary, Experience, Graveyard, Reclamation etc and I must admit I get GAS with a LOT of these 'far more than my Bank Balance can cope with. I also live in the UK so availability - especially in certain colours and models is extremely difficult as well as much more expensive too - I am looking for a HB2 right now but finding one in the right colour/pattern is proving difficult - would be SO much easier in the US... Certain models just don't come up 2nd hand either because PRS guitars are so good that people don't want to get rid of theirs unless they really have to.

I don't know how many guitars PRS make a month in the US but it seems they aren't making enough to cope with the demand. If I wanted a US Gibson or especially a Fender, I could easily find any model and any colour easily yet if you wanted certain Core models in a certain 'core' colour, you are very limited (if you can find one) - even models that have been around for a long time. I am not referring to the Custom 22/24 but even some of those (semi-hollow, Piezo etc variations in some core colours are extremely difficult to find). To me that says that PRS are making enough to keep going but not too many to flood the market. You don't see many shops with PRS guitars that have been in the shop for 5yrs or more so they must be selling.

Guitars too are something that you can almost always add another. How many people have 5 or more, 10 or more, 20 or more...

Those that are buying 2nd hand may well not be contributing directly to PRS but indirectly they could be. That guitar may well be sold to make room or fund a new PRS purchase....

 

[Shawn@PRS]

I only ask because in my business, if you want work that is mine, you actually have to come to me because it is a service instead of a product. When you are selling a durable goods kind of a product (I know of people with PRS guitars that are thirty years old), and there are a lot of them already out there being circulated, the used market (where they no longer need the company in the purchasing process) can explode based on price alone. Granted....If I were to stumble into a bunch of money, I might actually go buy new. But there are things (like guitars) that at this point in my life I am almost exclusively looking on the pre owned market. Then, to post them up on a forum like this one, I didn't know if it felt like rubbing in the fact that we got your great guitars without you getting any of the profit from it.

Whether the instrument was bought new or used, it's all marketing and brand loyalty to us and we're glad you're here.

 

[Ovibos]

Whether the instrument was bought new or used, it's all marketing and brand loyalty to us and we're glad you're here.

No, we're glad you're here!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

And we all love an NGD! So post away with a clear conscience @danktat