New Amp -OR- Midpriced modelers -OR- Is anyone here (still) playing a Tonex?

[pDoshier]

If you have an audio interface and you would be OK using VST plug-ins in your DAW of choice. Try Neural Amp Modeling NAM for free. You could run IRs and out to you monitors or skip the IRs and possibly go out to your PS2 using it as a powercab to power a real cab. A little one time setup but once and done. Hopefully there will be hardware for it eventually. A few folks are working on that I hear. But for home you wouldn't need it. The captures from NAM are supposed to be right up there with the commercial solutions.

 

[aamefford]

If you have an audio interface and you would be OK using VST plug-ins in your DAW of choice. Try Neural Amp Modeling NAM for free. You could run IRs and out to you monitors or skip the IRs and possibly go out to your PS2 using it as a powercab to power a real cab. A little one time setup but once and done. Hopefully there will be hardware for it eventually. A few folks are working on that I hear. But for home you wouldn't need it. The captures from NAM are supposed to be right up there with the commercial solutions.

I haven’t played with NAM yet. It seems pretty cool. I haven’t messed around too much with playing through a DAW other than maybe a half hour with Garage Band. I do have a small Focusrite Claret that I haven’t spent any time figuring out, and my little behringer mixer does USB interface duties, but I haven’t plugged it into Garage band or Reaper yet. I don’t really want to worry about figuring out DAW software atm. Oh, I guess the Kemper does usb audio also. I’m still sorting out the Kemper. I will eventually try out NAM, assuming others are making well done profiles available. I’m not ready to start doing my own profiles.

So far, I’m totally liking the Kemper though. I have a JCM800 liquid profile I like, an AC30 liquid profile I like, and a Morgan regular profile I like. I’ll stick with those for a while as I figure out the effects, performance mode and some of the amp and cab settings and stuff.

 

[dmatthews]

I haven’t played with NAM yet. It seems pretty cool. I haven’t messed around too much with playing through a DAW other than maybe a half hour with Garage Band. I do have a small Focusrite Claret that I haven’t spent any time figuring out, and my little behringer mixer does USB interface duties, but I haven’t plugged it into Garage band or Reaper yet. I don’t really want to worry about figuring out DAW software atm. Oh, I guess the Kemper does usb audio also. I’m still sorting out the Kemper. I will eventually try out NAM, assuming others are making well done profiles available. I’m not ready to start doing my own profiles.

So far, I’m totally liking the Kemper though. I have a JCM800 liquid profile I like, an AC30 liquid profile I like, and a Morgan regular profile I like. I’ll stick with those for a while as I figure out the effects, performance mode and some of the amp and cab settings and stuff.

I use performance mode exclusively.
Usually 1st slot is clean, and slots 2 - 5 are increasing in gain.
Add OD/boost/verb/delay etc. to taste.

 

[aamefford]

I use performance mode exclusively.
Usually 1st slot is clean, and slots 2 - 5 are increasing in gain.
Add OD/boost/verb/delay etc. to taste.

Cool, that method seems to make the most sense for my use. Put an amp or amp channel, clean through dirt/effects into a set of 5 slots. Set up one’s favorite few amps that way and practice/noodle/hack away to one’s heart’s content. If one gigged in a cover band or otherwise needed multiple tones, I can see the utility of a performance per song or similar.

 

[JasonE]

I use performance mode exclusively.
Usually 1st slot is clean, and slots 2 - 5 are increasing in gain.
Add OD/boost/verb/delay etc. to taste.

I use mine in a very similar way. From left to right increases in gain.

 

[dmatthews]

Cool, that method seems to make the most sense for my use. Put an amp or amp channel, clean through dirt/effects into a set of 5 slots. Set up one’s favorite few amps that way and practice/noodle/hack away to one’s heart’s content. If one gigged in a cover band or otherwise needed multiple tones, I can see the utility of a performance per song or similar.

Yeah, typically I use one performance per amp/profile type, so each performance is a different amp.
At the height of my geekery I had a bluetooth midi adaptor on the kemper, and with my tablet each song had midi assigned to it so that when I picked the song the Kemper would immediately change to the desired performance slot.
That became a bit... much...

 

[JasonE]

Yeah, typically I use one performance per amp/profile type, so each performance is a different amp.
At the height of my geekery I had a bluetooth midi adaptor on the kemper, and with my tablet each song had midi assigned to it so that when I picked the song the Kemper would immediately change to the desired performance slot.
That became a bit... much...

I almost went that far. I have been a subscriber to Band Helper for many years.

 

[aamefford]

I suspect MIDI would just be another thing to keep me from actually practicing.

Funny on pedalboard order - left to right for increasing gain on the Kemper makes perfect sense. Right to left for increasing gain via stacking pedals makes perfect sense on my pedalboard. Hmmmmm.

 

[dmatthews]

I almost went that far. I have been a subscriber to Band Helper for many years.

Yeah, same here

 

[dmatthews]

I suspect MIDI would just be another thing to keep me from actually practicing.

Funny on pedalboard order - left to right for increasing gain on the Kemper makes perfect sense. Right to left for increasing gain via stacking pedals makes perfect sense on my pedalboard. Hmmmmm.

No harm doing it the pedalboard way. Nothing is written in stone!

 

[JasonE]

I suspect MIDI would just be another thing to keep me from actually practicing.

Funny on pedalboard order - left to right for increasing gain on the Kemper makes perfect sense. Right to left for increasing gain via stacking pedals makes perfect sense on my pedalboard. Hmmmmm.

Yep, it is all about the direction the signal is going in. Pedals have the input on the right so you don't have many choices there...

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I do have a db app. I’ll check volume one of these days. I’m kind of curious anyway.

Yes, that's what I was going to suggest. I have several on my iphone. It provides a way better idea than just using phrases like "bedroom volume" or "tv volume" or whatever. One reason I don't play my amps more is, they need to be a bit louder to sound good. That doesn't mean that they don't sound OK at low volumes, but below a certain point in level, I just flip on the modeler instead.

 

[aamefford]

Yes, that's what I was going to suggest. I have several on my iphone. It provides a way better idea than just using phrases like "bedroom volume" or "tv volume" or whatever. One reason I don't play my amps more is, they need to be a bit louder to sound good. That doesn't mean that they don't sound OK at low volumes, but below a certain point in level, I just flip on the modeler instead.

Ok, with the meter on the carpeted floor in front of the 1x12, about 2 ft. In front of and in line with the speaker, 70 db +/-5 db seemed to comfortable, and 85 as loud as I’d want to get. The tone stays pretty consistent with the Kemper, and is bit more hit and miss with the MkV25/PS2 at the lower volumes. At the higher volumes, both sound good consistently, assuming I’ve got them dialed in well. Dialing the mkv25 in is a little more difficult, though I’m getting better at it. I haven’t measured playing through the monitors, but I suspect I play a bit more quietly through those, because they are elevated to standing ear level (because they sit on a tall dresser, only thing available atm) and beam straight out the bedroom door.

Side note that during that test, I finally wired the Kemper into the line in on the PS2 into the Mesa wide body open back 1x12 with the Mesa/celestion 90 watt black shadow in it. I used a JCM800 liquid profile. It sounded really good. The Kemper gives me good consistent tone at low volume as well as higher volume. The Mkv25 is a cool small tube amp. I haven’t touched my UA Dream since I got the Kemper.

 

[aamefford]

I don't see me ever using pedals with the Kemper, other than *maybe* a single drive or fuzz or something. Very probably not even that. I also don't really need the UA Dream any more. It is a hell of a good fender amp sim, but it's redundant with the Kemper, even if it is maybe better at being a fender sound (arguable, but maybe). So, now my Pedaltrain Novo 18 is too big. I want to build a small, straight, single level board with a tuner, 2 drives (currently an MXR Sugar Drive and a Blues Driver), maybe a Fuzz (I have a Rams head pi, not completely sure I like fuzz) echo, delay (Keeley Caverns covers those), maybe a flanger and looper (I have a Boss RC5) for the little mesa, 6 or so pedals. I'm thinking of using the smaller D'addario stretchable board. I've got the UA Dream and the Novo 18 on CL. Anybody here needs either, let me know via PM, wink, wink, nod, nod.

 

[RickP]

UPDATE ON TONEX- Rant Alert

I bought the Tonex as a cheaper backup to my Fractal FM9 Turbo. The software was a pain to load up for it, but once running, it sounded decent and I reported that here. As luck would have it, after purchasing the Tonex someone offered a trade deal on some equipment I wasn't using (and a little cash I was) for an essentially brand new Fractal FM9T. Well, that's a slam-dunk decision for which is the better backup. Deal done, and I have a ridiculous level of backup for my already ridiculous level of modeling.

So, I decided to sell the essentially brand new Tonex, which I knew I'd be taking a loss on. I got it at a good price, so I'll only be eating $50-75 on it but, hey, dem's da brakes! So, I figured I would go un-register it from my account so the next guy could register it when purchased. I found that, unsurprisingly, free software couldn't be transferred. But when I went to unregister my pedal, I found this:

"In order to transfer an IK Multimedia software license to another person, the current rights owner must purchase a "License Transfer Credit" in IK Multimedia's online store.

If you already have one, please go to the User Area > My Products > (product name) > Serials/License. Inside the pop up window click Transfer. This process will remove the serial number from your account and allow the new user to register it. After the license transfer has been completed, the previous rights owner is not allowed to retain any copy of the media.

If you do not have one yet, please purchase a "License Transfer Credit" in the IK Multimedia's online store. Only OEM versions and versions bundled with third-party products can be transferred free of charge and without a "License Transfer Credit". "

Way to go IK Multimedia! Screw your current and future users in one swift, money-grabbing move! What a douchy thing to slide in under the table. Although it says "software" or "media" above, it's unregistering the pedal that isn't allowed without the golden ticket.

So, whoever buys it will have to send me an additional $20 after they buy if they want to register it. I, UNLIKE IK Multimedia, told all prospective buyers about this in bold print up front. If IKM gets their $20, I hope they really do great things with it because this boy will never purchase a product from them again.

Rant over... just wanted anyone who was considering a purchase to know.

 

[Wyzard]

UPDATE ON TONEX- Rant Alert

I bought the Tonex as a cheaper backup to my Fractal FM9 Turbo. The software was a pain to load up for it, but once running, it sounded decent and I reported that here. As luck would have it, after purchasing the Tonex someone offered a trade deal on some equipment I wasn't using (and a little cash I was) for an essentially brand new Fractal FM9T. Well, that's a slam-dunk decision for which is the better backup. Deal done, and I have a ridiculous level of backup for my already ridiculous level of modeling.

So, I decided to sell the essentially brand new Tonex, which I knew I'd be taking a loss on. I got it at a good price, so I'll only be eating $50-75 on it but, hey, dem's da brakes! So, I figured I would go un-register it from my account so the next guy could register it when purchased. I found that, unsurprisingly, free software couldn't be transferred. But when I went to unregister my pedal, I found this:

"In order to transfer an IK Multimedia software license to another person, the current rights owner must purchase a "License Transfer Credit" in IK Multimedia's online store.

If you already have one, please go to the User Area > My Products > (product name) > Serials/License. Inside the pop up window click Transfer. This process will remove the serial number from your account and allow the new user to register it. After the license transfer has been completed, the previous rights owner is not allowed to retain any copy of the media.

If you do not have one yet, please purchase a "License Transfer Credit" in the IK Multimedia's online store. Only OEM versions and versions bundled with third-party products can be transferred free of charge and without a "License Transfer Credit". "

Way to go IK Multimedia! Screw your current and future users in one swift, money-grabbing move! What a douchy thing to slide in under the table. Although it says "software" or "media" above, it's unregistering the pedal that isn't allowed without the golden ticket.

So, whoever buys it will have to send me an additional $20 after they buy if they want to register it. I, UNLIKE IK Multimedia, told all prospective buyers about this in bold print up front. If IKM gets their $20, I hope they really do great things with it because this boy will never purchase a product from them again.

Rant over... just wanted anyone who was considering a purchase to know.

I own a Tonex, as reported earlier: I got it to dip my toe in the water of these modeling/capturing doodads...and it's been pretty useful (if a tad less than stellar when compared to Two Rocks, MkIIC+, Hiwatts, and assorted top analog stuff).

I must say, I wasn't planning on selling it any time soon; however, this is a pretty friggin' stupid way to go about things.

 

[RickP]

I own a Tonex, as reported earlier: I got it to dip my toe in the water of these modeling/capturing doodads...and it's been pretty useful (if a tad less than stellar when compared to Two Rocks, MkIIC+, Hiwatts, and assorted top analog stuff).

I must say, I wasn't planning on selling it any time soon; however, this is a pretty friggin' stupid way to go about things.

Yeah it is. I mean, it's $20 and it isn't going to kill me, but this smacks of all the stupidity of 1980-90s software licenses that I thought was long since gone. I am so spoiled by the good companies I deal with that underhanded "fee added" stuff some manufacturers do just drives me nuts.

Their better idea lost this customer, which is a shame because, otherwise, I would have been and have been recommending it. It's a great sounding pedal at the price point, and has an eco-system that allows a lot. Apparently they let the bean counters into the program, which always ends in the user shelling out.

I'd read about new owners of second-hand units having a lot of issues getting the software to load, but never followed the trail long enough to see why. Now I know. And the bad thing is that the old owner has to do this... if you don't have access to that person or they're not agreeable to an assist, you're done. It's like built-in ransomware.

Craziness. I went back to my Reverb listing and knocked off $20.... I can't even stomach being a party to that sort of screwing to people who buy from me.

 

[Bogner]

That Is A Richard Move By Tonex To Do That IMO. I Am Not Sure I Would Have Ever Purchased One Of Their Products But After Reading This I Know I Won't.

Edit: That $20.00 Is Going To Be Incredibly Expensive To Tonex In The End.

 

[aamefford]

I knew about it. I thought they had pulled back from that based on comments I'd read elsewhere that they had "pretty much worked out the transfer for selling a pedal as used." Apparently that meant that the charging of $20 was relatively easy to complete... Since my Kemper is new to me and purchased used, and I'm still pretty excited about it, I'll note the contrast. Somewhere in Kemper's relatively easy to navigate FAQ section, are the directions to register your used Kemper. That allows you to download the most recent and up to date version of the software for the Kemper itself, as well as the Rig Manager editor for your Mac or PC - wait for it - for free. Kemper then sends an email to the previous owner advising them of the transfer. Slick and painless. Yeah, I still totally have new-toy-itis.

Edit - On the other hand, my used Kemper Stage was about 2.5x the price of a new Tonex pedal. One can buy a bucketload of $20 transfers for that money. And, again on the other hand, the Kemper arguably does more, better, easier and sounds better than the Tonex. Totally arguably, probably. I'll probably never know. Since I don't play live, my backup is a Mkv25 combo atm.

 

[RickP]

I knew about it. I thought they had pulled back from that based on comments I'd read elsewhere that they had "pretty much worked out the transfer for selling a pedal as used." Apparently that meant that the charging of $20 was relatively easy to complete... Since my Kemper is new to me and purchased used, and I'm still pretty excited about it, I'll note the contrast. Somewhere in Kemper's relatively easy to navigate FAQ section, are the directions to register your used Kemper. That allows you to download the most recent and up to date version of the software for the Kemper itself, as well as the Rig Manager editor for your Mac or PC - wait for it - for free. Kemper then sends an email to the previous owner advising them of the transfer. Slick and painless. Yeah, I still totally have new-toy-itis.

Edit - On the other hand, my used Kemper Stage was about 2.5x the price of a new Tonex pedal. One can buy a bucketload of $20 transfers for that money. And, again on the other hand, the Kemper arguably does more, better, easier and sounds better than the Tonex. Totally arguably, probably. I'll probably never know. Since I don't play live, my backup is a Mkv25 combo atm.

The Kemper is the better option, you’re good to go with what you have. Kemper and Fractal Audio are the established, tried-and-true options, and you can’t go wrong with them. Both have set the bar for performance and customer interaction/support that make silliness like what IKM is doing look cheap and childish. I don’t think it’s going to fly with users over the long haul.

Time will tell. I’m out of it now, happily sticking with my FM9s. I also recently did some gear dealing and am testing a Fender Tone Master Pro, and it’s impressive. Not really the same target audience as Fractal or Kemper, but a unique take on what a player wants… more focus on the interface and less on the number of amps/cabs/effects/options/routings/etc. Super easy to use, I haven’t read the manual yet and have built presets already. Good sound, looks to be made well. Now comes the million-dollar-question… is Fender going to support it like the top guys, or be a douchey corporate Clint like IKM?

Again, time will tell. Til then, it’s a fun thing for playing with. My FAS gear is solidly ensconced in slot #1 and slot #2 for the foreseeable future. Glad you have yours sorted too!