EL 34 Family audiophile review

[Greywolf]

As there was a lot of recent discussion about EL34 equipped models lately , I thought this article may prove useful in selecting your next set .

Audiophile Review - EL34 Family Tube Comparison

Tim Smith from Wall Of Sound gives his perspective and provides a full review of 7 different EL34 / KT77 vacuum tubes for the purposes of home audio.

blog.thetubestore.com

 

[Greywolf]

the 6L6 shootout : https://blog.thetubestore.com/audiophile-review-6l6-type-vacuum-tube-shootout/

 

[László]

Very nice reviews, and they usually have interesting comments and tests about the tubes they carry on their site.

The caveat here, of course, is that the tubes were being evaluated in an audiophile context, and not in guitar amps. This changes the picture substantially. The mission of a guitar amp is quite different from that of audiophile amps.

A guitar amp is not a high fidelity reproduction device, any more than a guitar pickup has the fidelity of a Neumann microphone.

Quite the opposite, a guitar amp is part of an instrument system designed to create, not reproduce, tone (despite the initial intention of amp makers 80-90 years ago).

Generally, what players want from a guitar amp is coloration and harmonic distortion, are the very things that owners of audiophile amps don't want; they want uncolored reproduction in a lifelike way.

In a guitar amp, we want to 'get the power tubes cooking'. Why? Because pushed hard, they distort in pleasing ways.

In a hi fi amp, people want the lifelike response tubes deliver, but with a little distortion as possible - in other words, the object is NOT to get the power tubes cooking, but to use enough of them to have plenty of headroom to drive the speakers cleanly.

My suggestion would be that the guitar-centric reader of a comparison like this keep in mind the different purpose involved in an audiophile tube comparison.

 

[Greywolf]

Very Astute Les. I have a foot in both worlds, as others here do .. I often kid my audiophile buddies about spending HUGE amounts for an audio system with .0001 THD so they can accurately listen to an old blues recording with an amp that has 2% THD ...

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The caveat here, of course, is that the tubes were being evaluated in an audiophile context, and not in guitar amps. This changes the picture substantially. The mission of a guitar amp is quite different from that of audiophile amps.

Yes, and the other thing I worry about lately, is that the tube manufacturer landscape has changed dramatically since that was written. So, are the tubes they reviewed the exact same tubes we could buy new today? Does anyone know more about that specifically?

I know that even before one factory burned and Russia decided to start the end of the world (ooops did I say that out loud?) I was reading that new tubes were improving, and real tangible upgrades were being made to many models. But now… who knows? They’ve doubled in price in the last two years. If they are better, that’s oK. I worry that they may not be…. And our choices are definitely more limited.

 

[László]

Very Astute Les. I have a foot in both worlds, as others here do .. I often kid my audiophile buddies about spending HUGE amounts for an audio system with .0001 THD so they can accurately listen to an old blues recording with an amp that has 2% THD ...

I love good audio gear. I'm that guy!

Yes, and the other thing I worry about lately, is that the tube manufacturer landscape has changed dramatically since that was written. So, are the tubes they reviewed the exact same tubes we could buy new today? Does anyone know more about that specifically?

I know that even before one factory burned and Russia decided to start the end of the world (ooops did I say that out loud?) I was reading that new tubes were improving, and real tangible upgrades were being made to many models. But now… who knows? They’ve doubled in price in the last two years. If they are better, that’s oK. I worry that they may not be…. And our choices are definitely more limited.

I'll be straight up:

NOS tubes are the only way I go, with very few exceptions. They've made my amps much more satisfying as long-term investments, instead of flavor of the month. I used to go through amps, selling them after having them a short time, taking that financial hit, and buying another. I haven't done that in a decade.

Now if I start out liking an amp, it gets NOS tubes, and turns into a keeper, instead of my getting tired of the amp and not knowing quite why it stopped being satisfying to play through.

Compared to the money I threw away buying and selling amps over the years, NOS tubes are CHEAP! Keepers are far more cost-effective than the amp merry-go-round. And NOS tubes last longer. It's a win all the way around.

I think I have enough spare NOS tubes for my current amps that I won't run out before I kick the bucket, but every few years I add an amp, and then all bets are off, and I stock up on more to make sure I have reserves.

 

[Greywolf]

It is very true in the land of music , you get what you pay for . A wise man once told me " If you are going to use something for more than a year , buy the best you can afford" it certainly is true for tools , and to an extent .. our amps are among our most important tools, so buy the good stuff.

 

[VH5]

Yes, and the other thing I worry about lately, is that the tube manufacturer landscape has changed dramatically since that was written. So, are the tubes they reviewed the exact same tubes we could buy new today? Does anyone know more about that specifically?

I know that even before one factory burned and Russia decided to start the end of the world (ooops did I say that out loud?) I was reading that new tubes were improving, and real tangible upgrades were being made to many models. But now… who knows? They’ve doubled in price in the last two years. If they are better, that’s oK. I worry that they may not be…. And our choices are definitely more limited.

I'm really hoping Western Electric gets their expansion up and running soon in the US. I've had bad luck with JJs and if anything it's gotten worse with the price increases (granted, anecdote =/= data). I'd pay a decent premium for high-quality, US-made tubes. Hopefully they're an improvement over the China/Russia and Slovak brands.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Now if I start out liking an amp, it gets NOS tubes, and turns into a keeper, instead of my getting tired of the amp and not knowing quite why it stopped being satisfying to play through.

This hit me hard. When I was on the amp merry-go-round a few years ago, I loved most of them when I first got them. Then over time I'd lose that and not be as satisfied with them. I traded the Mark V25 to a guy and he said "I thought you said the tubes were in good shape. I just wanted you to know that I replaced them and the amp sounds MUCH MUCH better." My heart sank and for months I wondered if I'd messed up.

And, as I've told here before, my Multimeter went bad on me and I couldn't check bias on my Custom 50. When I traded it, the guy said "no wonder you think it sounds tubby and bloated, the tubes were so far out of bias it was crazy. I adjusted that and this amp sounds 100% better." Again, my heart sank. I had the Archon but they have very different clean channels and I've regretted selling that amp ever since then.

I'm really hoping Western Electric gets their expansion up and running soon in the US.

YES! And I hope that they're as good as we expect them to be.

 

[Wyzard]

I reckon I have enough new/new-ish old stock tubes to see me out.

Nonetheless, I've bought some TAD tubes in the last couple of years and have been fairly pleased with them: the last couple of sets of 6L6WGCs in particular have stood up well, and sounded reasonably good. The red base EL34s I got nine months ago have also worked OK; but to my ears, they're not in the same league as my old European stuff.

As a side note, has anyone found a tube that comes close to the old Fat Boy 6CA7s yet?

 

[László]

This hit me hard. When I was on the amp merry-go-round a few years ago, I loved most of them when I first got them. Then over time I'd lose that and not be as satisfied with them. I traded the Mark V25 to a guy and he said "I thought you said the tubes were in good shape. I just wanted you to know that I replaced them and the amp sounds MUCH MUCH better." My heart sank and for months I wondered if I'd messed up.

And, as I've told here before, my Multimeter went bad on me and I couldn't check bias on my Custom 50. When I traded it, the guy said "no wonder you think it sounds tubby and bloated, the tubes were so far out of bias it was crazy. I adjusted that and this amp sounds 100% better." Again, my heart sank. I had the Archon but they have very different clean channels and I've regretted selling that amp ever since then.


YES! And I hope that they're as good as we expect them to be.

Regrets, of course, I always have with the aid of my Handy-Dandy Retrospectoscope (TM)!

I always loved my PRS amps; the DG30 came equipped with NOS tubes, and I felt it was worth retubing the HXDA with NOS Mullards and Siemens output tubes early on. They made the amp that much nicer to play through.

But I wasn't sure it'd be worth it for the Lone Star; after the 'new' wore off, I just couldn't get into it and was ready to sell at a loss.

So I figured it might be worth taking a flyer to see if going NOS would help. I bought some NOS RCA and GE glass. As soon as I installed the tubes, I fired up the amp, and liked what I was hearing. The amp still makes me happy years later. Huge lesson. And haven't had to change a single NOS tube I installed in any of my amps, as much as 7 years later.

With the Fillmore I didn't even wait and see. I installed NOS RCA and GE glass very soon after getting the amp, and as with the Lone Star, I'm still a very happy camper.

I figure spending a few hundred on the NOS glass saved me thousands I'd have lost buying and selling. At this point, I figure I buy an amp for a reason, so for long term satisfaction and prevention of The Urge To Purge Amps, they get NOS tubes.

I'd only sell an amp now if it still didn't sound great after going NOS. That hasn't happened.

 

[Wyzard]

But I wasn't sure it'd be worth it for the Lone Star; after the 'new' wore off, I just couldn't get into it and was ready to sell at a loss.

So I figured it might be worth taking a flyer to see if going NOS would help. I bought some NOS RCA and GE glass. As soon as I installed the tubes, I fired up the amp, and liked what I was hearing. The amp still makes me happy years later. Huge lesson. And haven't had to change a single NOS tube I installed in any of my amps, as much as 7 years later.

I've always been a huge fan of the Lone Star, and my experience of a particular Classic has remained with me ever since.

It probably helped that the Classic's owner was as equipped as anyone I've ever known with a pile of NOS glass. He wasn't mean about using it either, having kitted the amp out from one end to the other with the good stuff.

I politely badgered him for years to sell it to me, but never succeeded......

 

[Greywolf]

 

[László]

I've always been a huge fan of the Lone Star, and my experience of a particular Classic has remained with me ever since.

It probably helped that the Classic's owner was as equipped as anyone I've ever known with a pile of NOS glass. He wasn't mean about using it either, having kitted the amp out from one end to the other with the good stuff.

I politely badgered him for years to sell it to me, but never succeeded......

I think it's a pretty cool amp. When my son toured with his band (here and in Europe) both he and the lead player who'd formerly been with Portugal The Man used Lone Star 100s.

Their sound was absolutely wonderful - though they played heavier stuff than I do.