The Versatile Archon Thread

[László]

Nothing happens over night.

Shangri-La wasn't built in a day!

"You realize Shangri-La is a fictional place, right?"

"I figure it took James Hilton a little while to write Lost Horizon."

"What's a Utopia got to do with guitar amps?"

"Everything."

 

[Deleted member 5962]

No question, it’s tough. Part of the pure magic with the SuperD is that dynamic expressiveness that only comes at full tilt with the MkIII. Auditioning numerous amps, including the Anniversary (father to the HXDA), I knew what Doug’s designs were capable of, so I felt better about buying sight-unseen. What surprised me was how stunning the effect would be. The difference between a hand built and tweaked amp and the others can be sublime. It certainly was for me. Of course, it also took months of research and testing of pedals to complete the rig. Nothing happens over night.

Well, as it's no secret that I've always wanted an HX/DA, I'll add that thanks mainly to you, I've always watched out for a Super Dallas as well.

I'm in love with the Archon though, and close to the same with the ATMA. My only grip with the ATMA, is that Bogner wanted to prove he could make EL84s sound big, so he put (IMO, and the O of many others) too much bottom end in the voicing. I was in 70s mode last night trying this very thing you're talking about in these last posts, and had the bass control at around 7:30 - 8:00. At one point all the way down. Just trying to tame the bottom end. The Zbest is sideways on the floor so it has a lot of bottom end itself, which doesn't help matters, but it sounds SO good that it's what I normally use. Zbest has ET65 and V30, but I have a ET90 now that will replace the V30 soon.

 

[watelessness]

i like turtles. and archons.

 

[László]

Well, as it's no secret that I've always wanted an HX/DA, I'll add that thanks mainly to you, I've always watched out for a Super Dallas as well.

I'm in love with the Archon though, and close to the same with the ATMA. My only grip with the ATMA, is that Bogner wanted to prove he could make EL84s sound big, so he put (IMO, and the O of many others) too much bottom end in the voicing. I was in 70s mode last night trying this very thing you're talking about in these last posts, and had the bass control at around 7:30 - 8:00. At one point all the way down. Just trying to tame the bottom end. The Zbest is sideways on the floor so it has a lot of bottom end itself, which doesn't help matters, but it sounds SO good that it's what I normally use. Zbest has ET65 and V30, but I have a ET90 now that will replace the V30 soon.

You've probably already thought of this, but if not...Placement of a cab is a big deal due to Boundary Effect. Against a boundary, such as floor, ceiling, walls and corners, the omnidirectional nature of bass frequencie cause reflection from adjacent surfaces and results in an INCREASE in bass.

If it's on the floor, and away from the wall:
You have what's called Half Space Boundary Interference, which raises the bass by +3db. If you remember that it takes twice the amp power to raise the volume 3 dB, then you know 3 dB can be a big deal.

If it's on the floor and against or very near a wall:
You have Quarter Space Boundary Interference, which raises the bass by +6 dB. That's a very big deal.

If it's on the floor and near two walls (i.e., a corner):
Boom! You have Eighth Space Boundary Interference, and you have have increased the bass level by +9 dB.

If the cab is far enough away from the walls AND it's raised off the floor:
You have a Whole Space and considerably less boundary effect bass reinforcement.

Here are a few caveats: The level of the boundary effect can vary with distance AND frequency, with frequencies below 500 Hz being the starting point. Trouble is, that's right in the sweet spot for guitar amp bass and lower-mid response.

There's boundary effect simply caused by the length of bass wavelengths reflecting around, so unless you've effectively treated a room with serious bass trapping, there will always be some issue or other. Still, the placement of the speaker matters a great deal, because that's going to be the first signal arriving at your ear or at the mic.

I'd recommend getting amps off the floor about ten or more inches if you're getting too much bass. Other things that reduce problems like this are purpose-built bass traps placed behind the amps, and at least raising the cab a few inches by means of something like an Auralex Gramma.

How far is far enough from adjacent walls? Depends on frequency. Experiment a little to determine where the cabs sound best. The middle of the room usually works. Sometimes flush up against a wall works better than a short distance out. I like to be out at least 4-6 feet from the walls in my room, and farther is better, but again, it's going to depend on that exact cab, and that exact room.

The more amps and cabs you have, the clutter problem starts to take hold, and that's a real thing to live with. But it's still important to experiment and see what works.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

You've probably already thought of this, but if not...Placement of a cab is a big deal due to Boundary Effect.

All good info, but yes, well aware. In my circumstances, the only thing I could do (and should have before now) is try the Gramma. My cabs are all a about a foot from the wall and center of the wall (none in corners) but it's a 12x12 room so my options are limited.

I have my Thiele up off the floor (on top of a 1x12 Avatar) and it really helped get rid of the boom. And, the Zbest is basically a 2x Thiele cab. It helps just to stand it up, but currently it's on it's side as it has the PRS 2x12 on top of it. So it has a LOT of bottom end now.

 

[László]

All good info, but yes, well aware. In my circumstances, the only thing I could do (and should have before now) is try the Gramma. My cabs are all a about a foot from the wall and center of the wall (none in corners) but it's a 12x12 room so my options are limited.

I have my Thiele up off the floor (on top of a 1x12 Avatar) and it really helped get rid of the boom. And, the Zbest is basically a 2x Thiele cab. It helps just to stand it up, but currently it's on it's side as it has the PRS 2x12 on top of it. So it has a LOT of bottom end now.

You're right, a square room of modest proportions is going to be a whole world of standing waves and cause bass problems that can't be surmounted no matter what (might be reduced with good bass traps, and I'm not talking foam, you need the real deal stuff).

The limitation of the Gramma is that it really is mostly effective in preventing structure-borne vibration, which of course does add to any bass problem, but the Gramma doesn't really address the issue of getting the amp high enough off the floor, and of course can't solve the issue of room dimensions. But as previously stated, the thing the room needs more than anything is effective bass trapping, and the good stuff is costly (though it does add to one's enjoyment of the gear).

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I’ve had an Archon 100 since it’s release. It’s an outstanding amp that responds fantastic to where the guitar volume and tone controls are at. Lately, at home, I’ve been loving my bridge pickup volume at 5-6 with the gain around 11:00. It’s super responsive to how hard I’m picking. Roll the volume all the way up for the roar. It’s truly a pleasure.

where do you have the channel master set for this?

 

[Guitargonaut]

I’ve had an Archon 100 since it’s release. It’s an outstanding amp that responds fantastic to where the guitar volume and tone controls are at. Lately, at home, I’ve been loving my bridge pickup volume at 5-6 with the gain around 11:00. It’s super responsive to how hard I’m picking. Roll the volume all the way up for the roar. It’s truly a pleasure.

On the 50 - I set the Clean Volume at 12:00 and Clean Master at 3:00 while the Lead Volume and Lead Master are set at 9:00. This gives me a ton of range. Yes - quite the pleasure - loud too. Changed the power tubes to EL34s because their transition is a lot smoother than the 6L6s. I will say the 6L6s give me a much better clean though. I have a 2x12 with a Celestion G12H-75 and a G12M-65 - the Creamback combo has an almost chorus-like sound with the 6L6s.

Forgot to mention that I play with a Z-Verb plugged into the front end of the Archon too.

 

[GuitarJammin]

Thanks Les! Now I know I'm not crazy moving around my 1x12 extension cabinet around the room trying to get a stronger bottom end. Plus you explained that there were some guidelines to the madness!

I run a Archon 25w combo w/ a 1x12 stealth ext. cab.....and a really long ( maybe 25 ft) speaker cable that lets me place the 1x12 ext. cab on a different side of the room. I have a 75w creamback in the amp, and a Redback in the 1x12.
This is my all around basic practice/writing rig for all my guitars...and the Archon just shines with every guitar in every style of tone.

You've probably already thought of this, but if not...Placement of a cab is a big deal due to Boundary Effect. Against a boundary, such as floor, ceiling, walls and corners, the omnidirectional nature of bass frequencie cause reflection from adjacent surfaces and results in an INCREASE in bass.

If it's on the floor, and away from the wall:
You have what's called Half Space Boundary Interference, which raises the bass by +3db. If you remember that it takes twice the amp power to raise the volume 3 dB, then you know 3 dB can be a big deal.

If it's on the floor and against or very near a wall:
You have Quarter Space Boundary Interference, which raises the bass by +6 dB. That's a very big deal.

If it's on the floor and near two walls (i.e., a corner):
Boom! You have Eighth Space Boundary Interference, and you have have increased the bass level by +9 dB.

If the cab is far enough away from the walls AND it's raised off the floor:
You have a Whole Space and considerably less boundary effect bass reinforcement.

s.

 

[vchizzle]

where do you have the channel master set for this?

At home, not very high. Say 7:00 is off, maybe 8:00 or less. It’s louder than quiet tv volume but not super disturbing loud at home. We have an open floor plan tri level house, no doors between the 3 levels. Amp is in the lower level man cave living room. Slightly annoying to the lady, watching tv in the middle level. Again, no doors separating anything. I’ll try to take a pic this weekend. Or maybe a video.
This is with stock tubes from PRS - EL-34 and an uncovered \m/ bridge pickup. Also been running my mids up higher around 2:00.

 

[László]

Thanks Les! Now I know I'm not crazy moving around my 1x12 extension cabinet around the room trying to get a stronger bottom end. Plus you explained that there were some guidelines to the madness!

I run a Archon 25w combo w/ a 1x12 stealth ext. cab.....and a really long ( maybe 25 ft) speaker cable that lets me place the 1x12 ext. cab on a different side of the room. I have a 75w creamback in the amp, and a Redback in the 1x12.
This is my all around basic practice/writing rig for all my guitars...and the Archon just shines with every guitar in every style of tone.

You're absolutely doing the smartest thing to move the cab around and take advantage of the room's acoustics!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

At home, not very high. Say 7:00 is off, maybe 8:00 or less. It’s louder than quiet tv volume but not super disturbing loud at home. We have an open floor plan tri level house, no doors between the 3 levels. Amp is in the lower level man cave living room. Slightly annoying to the lady, watching tv in the middle level. Again, no doors separating anything. I’ll try to take a pic this weekend. Or maybe a video.
This is with stock tubes from PRS - EL-34 and an uncovered \m/ bridge pickup. Also been running my mids up higher around 2:00.

Very interesting. I run the gain around 11:00 often. Master at my house, usually a "verge of ticking off roomy" 9:30-10:00. But I have a closed door, and she's 3 rooms away. I also run bright switch on 99% of the time.

I was thinking you were running your master higher for this guitar volume control, so this is really interesting. With the volume up where I run it, it will be barking quickly if you bump that volume up some. And I have several sets of hotter pickups, but no \M/ 's yet... but that's a lot of mids. My mids knob rarely touches noon, so that's a factor as well. Will give it a try.

I have in the past transformed the Archon into a completely different thing, but switching to 25 watt mode (which does something different on the 50 than the 100, but switching the amp to triode mode which is softer/smoother) and plugging it into the 1x12 open back cab with Red Fang Alnico. The fire breather because a big fat singing tone instead of the aggressive monster I often have it dialed too. I'm thinking those type adjustments would work well with the guitar volume knobs.

 

[vchizzle]

Very interesting. I run the gain around 11:00 often. Master at my house, usually a "verge of ticking off roomy" 9:30-10:00. But I have a closed door, and she's 3 rooms away. I also run bright switch on 99% of the time.

I was thinking you were running your master higher for this guitar volume control, so this is really interesting. With the volume up where I run it, it will be barking quickly if you bump that volume up some. And I have several sets of hotter pickups, but no \M/ 's yet... but that's a lot of mids. My mids knob rarely touches noon, so that's a factor as well. Will give it a try.

I have in the past transformed the Archon into a completely different thing, but switching to 25 watt mode (which does something different on the 50 than the 100, but switching the amp to triode mode which is softer/smoother) and plugging it into the 1x12 open back cab with Red Fang Alnico. The fire breather because a big fat singing tone instead of the aggressive monster I often have it dialed too. I'm thinking those type adjustments would work well with the guitar volume knobs.

This is where I’m at right now at home. The lead channel isn’t that different from my band settings other than the master is between 9-10:00. Bass and depth are between 10:00-noon and mid right around noon. Can’t do any video til maybe Sunday when I don’t work and there’s nobody working from home. Maybe it’s not that loud, I can’t remember now. I’m still getting good dynamics with my picking hand and guitar volume knob.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I have to try those master settings. Those are very low!

 

[Guitargonaut]

I have to try those master settings. Those are very low!

Yes - but they allow one to play all night long while the significant other sleeps away just down the hall...

 

[boardn10]

The Archon loves Celestion Redbacks and K100s. It also kills thru V30s. Nothing slays in thr band like the V30s with the Redbacks.

I couldn't get E34Ls/EL34s to work. Seemed to mess up the natural character of this amp so I went back to 6L6. Seems smoother and warmer. Just like in my modded Dual Rec, the E34Ls sucked out too much life and bottom end punch.

6CA7s work well, but overall I find 6L6s best.

 

[boardn10]

I do wish you didn't have to take the amp out of thr heads hell in order to bias it!