SE Upgrades

[aclundwall]

Hi.

I've got several PRS SE guitars. Among them, I've got two 30th Anniversary CU24s, and a Santana. I love these guitars, and have every intention of keeping them for a long time. With that in mind, I wanted to upgrade them in the one area where I think they lack...the trem!

So, I decided to start with the one that goes out of tune the most when you use the trem. I have had the tuners converted to locking tuners, and I've installed a 2000NOS bridge from, both obtained from the Guitar Vault!

I also ordered some USA spec PRS nuts. They're the right width and height, but as it turns out, they're 1/16" thinner (front to back) than the stock plastic nut. When I removed the stock nut and put the replacement in place, it left an unsightly strip between where the headstock laminate/finish end, and the front of the replacement nut. This particular guitar is red, so this unfinished gap sticks out like a sore thumb! So, for the time being, I reinstalled the stock nut. However, to get it working as well as possible, I filed the top so that the strings weren't as deeply buried. I widened the slots a teeny-tiny bit (I didn't want to change the height of the slots, since I didn't want them any lower, so I didn't get too crazy with the nut files) to help prevent binding. And I strung it up with 9.5s and used powdered graphite in the slots.

There's no question that it's a little better now, but it still goes out when you use the tremolo with any gusto. The B and G strings are the worst (and they were before the mods were done as well), and go sharp if you dive the trem. It seems pretty obvious that the nut is still causing problems!

I looked up the dimensions of a Graph Tech Tusq nut, and it appears to be the same dimensions as the stock plastic nut, so I ordered a few of them, and they should be here tomorrow.

So, I guess I have two options...use the Graph Tech nut, which fills the space correctly, or use the USA spec PRS nuts and try to find some way to hide that gap. So I have two questions: First, does the Graph Tech nut perform the same, better or worse than the USA Spec PRS nut? Second, for those that have used the PRS nut, what have you done to fill that gap?

 

[aclundwall]

I noticed that in my original post above, I said the PRS USA nut was 1/16" thinner than the SE nut. I don't know why I said that, because the difference isn't nearly that much! The PRS USA nut is .215" thick, and the SE nut was .240, a difference of 025". Still, that's plenty of space to leave an unsightly strip of unexposed, unfinished wood showing between the nut and the finished part of the headstock. I think the 1/16" number came from the published specs when I was looking up the graph tech nut...it's 1/4" thick, and 5/16" high.

Since I originally posted this, I have spent several hours playing that guitar. And while I originally thought it was holding tune better than it had in its original configuration, I no longer think so. Last night it seemed I was constantly re-tuning. And this was with no tremolo use. I noticed two things happening repeatedly...when tuning up to pitch, I'd reach the right spot, and then after strumming a few notes, that string would be sharp. And after bends, the strings would often go flat. This happened primarily on the B and G strings. But both seem to be clear indications that the strings are sticking in the nut.

As I said, I had ordered a Graph Tech nut to use instead of the PRS USA spec nuts, because they'd fill the gap mentioned above. I have a Les Paul copy that has a Graph Tech nut, and that guitar stays in tune as well as any other guitar I've got. Admittedly, it has no tremolo, but still, it is unaffected by bending, and tunes up to pitch with none of the sticking problems. So I'm hopeful that this will work on my SE as well!

TThe Graph Tech TUSQ nut came in today's mail! The first thing I did is measure it. It is 'supposed to be' 1/4" thick, but it actually measures a little less, at .240". But that's the same as the original PRS SE nut, so it fills the gap just as the original nut did. I glued it in place and lightly strung it with just enough tension to hold it while the glue sets. I'll update this thread with the results once I have more info.

 

[garrett]

The nut is the number one culprit. Part of a good setup is evaluating/adjusting the height and width of the slots. If you can't get it where you want it, bring it to a good tech and they will file and sand it until it's right.

If you haven't already, study the tremolo setup tips here:
http://prsguitars.com/csc/bridges.html

 

[ReptilianNosewood]

In addition to being wide it has to be smooth, after using a file take a bit of high grit sandpaper to it to polish it. I found that filing it, polishing it, bringing it up to tune and then pushing the string down a few times behind the nut will tell you if its good, if it does not return to pitch like this than it won't when using the trem.

 

[andy474x]

I put a Tusq XL nut on my SECU24 25th, and it made a noticeable improvement in tuning for me (already had locking tuners). The thing that, I think, the Tusq has over the PRS nut is that the slots are more of a shallow bowl shape, vs a deep "U" shape on the PRS. So the end result is that the strings can't get bound on the sides of the slot, they're just sitting on a groove more so than deep in one. Another advantage is you can switch string gauges without filing the nut. And, as you mentioned, it's the exact width of the stock nut, also the slots are radiused properly for the fretboard. All I had to do was sand down the bottom to get the overall height correct.

I won't say that the tuning is 100% perfect on that guitar, but I think it's as close as one can get it, good enough that I can eat through a gig with it without having to nit pick my tuning between songs. I always tune up to pitch from flat, so bends don't pull me flat. When I use the trem, anything short of a dive bomb stays in tune. If I get crazy, a little tug upward on the trem bar pulls everything back (which is why I would recommend having the trem floating enough to pull about 1/2 step sharp).

My theory is that PRS uses the deep slots on their nuts to increase the string-to-nut contact area for vibration and energy transfer. While I appreciate the thought, especially on a stoptail guitar, I just don't find it to work well with a trem. That sends me down a rabbit hole of another theory of mine, that trems are a compromise when it comes to tone and energy, but I'll spare everyone that rant. It's minor, and the utility of the trem is still worth it if you want those capabilities. The sweet subtle wobble of the trem on my S2 Semi 22 is heavenly.

 

[bluenova]

I'd say the graph tech nuts are every bit as good as anything else out there. I've got one on my SE and it works really well.

 

[ReptilianNosewood]

Also when you pull down the bar if you are facing the front of the guitar you will notice that the string pulls slightly to the left on the low strings, and to the right on the high strings just due to the position of the tuning peg in relation to the nut slots. I file a little ramp off of the back end of the nut, nothing extreme, but very slight so when the string comes back it does not hang up on a sheer corner of the nut if that makes any sense.

 

[aclundwall]

I appreciate all the feedback. I know how to cut the slots on the nut and setup the guitar. But the slots on the stock nut were already as low as they could go...any lower, and I was afraid they'd be buzzing on the first fret. If I'd had some leeway, I'd have opened those slots up a bit. But now matter how I did it, I was certain that if I worked on those slots at all, I'd lower them as well as widen them.

I used the Graph Tech nut, after sanding the bottom of it to get it to the correct height, and it worked pretty well. Like Andy said, above, the slots on the Tusq nut are sort of bowl-shaped, so there's no way they're going to pinch (though, in fairness, the USA-spec PRS nuts are that way as well). I can now fully dive-bomb the trem, and it comes back into tune. I set up the bridge with some float, but I don't have to pull it back to get back to pitch. I also notice that it's much easier to tune the guitar...as soon as you start turning the tuners, the pitch changes. I'll be interested to see if it holds up that way over time. But for now, I definitely give a thumbs-up to the Graph Tech Tusq nut...it's a vast improvement over the stock SE nut.

One thing I was really hoping for was an opinion about the PRS USA nut vs the Graph Tech Tusq nut. Specifically, if anyone had used both and found one or the other to be better. I still have two more SE's to upgrade, and right now I have both types of nut to go on them. The next guitar I'm going to work on has a headstock that is natural wood color. I think I'll use the PRS nut on that guitar, since any exposed bare wood won't be so obvious. Once finished, I'll have two SE CU24's identical except that one will have a Tusq nut, and the other a PRS USA nut. Then I'll be able to say definitively if one is better than the other.

 

[bodia]

I've had both, and had no problems with either. I should clarify, I have one Tusq on a Strat, and more than 10 PRS Core nuts. Never had a tuning problem, SE or Core.

You definitely sound like you know what you're doing. Check out some pointers from the Master!

http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/somebody-sticky-skitchy.21259/#XenForo

 

[aclundwall]

Thank you to everyone that replied. I got real sick, and spent about a week just wishing my head would go ahead and explode!!! But I recovered, and now have upgraded another of the three SE's. On the first one I used a Graph Tech Tusq nut. This second guitar is identical to the first one except for color, and on this one, I used a PRS USA nut. As before, I left the slots alone, and sanded the bottom to get the height I wanted. It came out just as nice as the first one. I don't think I can say there's a significant difference between the two nuts with regard to how the respective guitars hold tune. They're definitely close enough that I'm not worried about removing the Graph Tech nut just to replace it with the PRS item. I'll give it some time though, and see if I still feel that way after I've had a while to play both of them.

 

[jeb528]

Hi, I want to order a graphtech nut for my newly acquired Bernie. Reading the forum extensively, it seems to be the preferred choice to use a Tusq nut, cream in color, with PRS USA string spacing. Width is close, length is close, sand height to fit.
What part number do you recommend that I order? Thanks very much!