Poor Produced 2019 SE's ?

[Tim S]

Keep in mind, these Indonesian factories may not understand exactly what quality level Paul expects until they’ve run a few thousand guitars.

So you're sayin' these less-than-stellar Cor-Teks could end up being collectors items?

 

[Victek]

So you're sayin' these less-than-stellar Cor-Teks could end up being collectors items?

LOL, people can assign value to anything. If you've ever collected stamps you know what I mean

 

[Mozzi]

So you're sayin' these less-than-stellar Cor-Teks could end up being collectors items?

Less than stellar is perhaps too harsh. If they play, function and sound exactly as they should then its difficult to call them 'less than stellar'. A tiny gap in the fitting of the recessed back-plate is, in my opinion, unlikely to be a highly sort after collectible and I doubt that the off centre birds will. If they had mistakenly put left handed fret-boards on right handed guitars so the 'birds' were upside down but the instrument is otherwise perfect, still perfectly intonated etc, then a 'small' run of a few hundred of guitars with that error, could make them more sought after than a limited run of a few thousand in a particular colour.

In the past, minor visual errors have made certain items worth significantly more than their corrected version. For example, there was a small run of stamps where the aeroplane was printed upside down and these are worth considerably more than the 'correct' version. Its happened with coins too where something has gone wrong in the minting process - so yes - some 'mistakes' can become collectible and, often due to the very limited run before being corrected, are collectible because there are far fewer of these than actual 'limited edition' runs.

Minor mistakes, like some dust or something under the finish, a slight gap in the fitting of a back-plate etc are unlikely to be collectible but they are inconsequential to the playability, to the sound and function of an instrument. Even the birds not quite as centred in the frets may not be collectible but to someone, this may well be a 'quirk', a feature that they like because its different, its unique and it has no impact on the function, playability or tone. This is almost like a unique 'top' - perhaps more so because some unique tops look so similar that they blend in with each other. Its like Fingerprints that maybe different but still can look like so many other fingerprints.

Another way to look at it is that some people really like the 'runt' of the litter, the one that some may see as 'flawed' but another see's that as 'character'. Where others want 'perfection', some look for something that sets it apart from all the others, something that makes it unique, different or, to them, special. Some little quirk - as long as it's not something that fundamentally affects its function.

 

[Mec78]

Wow, to those saying temper the expectations because of price, it's still a $1000 dollar guitar. You pay the premium price for the quality material and the hand fitting and USA craftsmanship of the CORE lines but the SE lines should still be delivered as designed and anything less than that (even cosmetic) PRS should expect a return and accept returns without question. They advertise a specific guitar for a specific price plain and simple. I own 2 SE and both have no issues. Having read or seen many interviews with Paul I would all but guarantee that he would be embarrassed that his factory send a subpar guitar out regardless of the price point. People have been killing Gibson for poor quality control for years and last time I checked you can get a USA made LP for about $1200 why then should you expect anything less than 100-percent quality from PRS for $1000 regardless of which factory they contract with

 

[Kdogg788]

I've been loosely watching this thread and wow has it gone off the rails.

1. Most of the errors are completely minor and inconsequential. I do feel bad though for the few people that have had genuine issues.
2. Error or slightly defected in some way import guitars are not going to be collector's items. Let's pump the brakes on that. If any SEs are going to be collector's items it would be ones like mine (1 of 25 blue Sapphire quilt tops) which are limited runs commissioned by stores and even then it won't raise the value much and definitely not into US core line territory.
3. I agree with Mec78 that there should be some basic QC on these guitars at the $800 to $1000 price point. At this level you are entering US made Fender and Gibson guitars that also should be expected to have equitable quality control. I assume they do because I have yet to see any real egregious defects on any of these. The necks on some feel a little different to me but it's super minor. The main issue should be overall quality and not one or two people seeing a small defect in the clear coat or something.
4. The switch of production from Korea to Indonesia was spurred primarily by the fight and protest of Korean labor working for guitar companies in that country for adequate pay and workplace safety. I saw a video of workers protesting the move of the guitar makers out of Korea to avoid paying their workers where they held signs and had tape on their mouths. More info here...
http://unitelive.org/cort-guitar-makers-international/
https://cortaction.wordpress.com/about/
So don't be surprised if you see a country hopping change of factories in the coming years as companies try to protect their margins, which doesn't make that much sense considering the S2s and the SEs are so close in price already.

-k

 

[Acnestes]

The switch of production from Korea to Indonesia was spurred primarily by the fight and protest of Korean labor working for guitar companies in that country for adequate pay and workplace safety. I saw a video of workers protesting the move of the guitar makers out of Korea to avoid paying their workers where they held signs and had tape on their mouths. More info here...
http://unitelive.org/cort-guitar-makers-international/
https://cortaction.wordpress.com/about/
So don't be surprised if you see a country hopping change of factories in the coming years as companies try to protect their margins, which doesn't make that much sense considering the S2s and the SEs are so close in price already.

You want answers about the whys and wherefores of production, it's the accounting department has 'em every time, whether it's guitars or washing machines. We may not like it, but that's business!

 

[dogrocketp]

In 2017, Korea passed a minimum wage law that immediately raised the 2018 Minimum wage 16.4 percent. That’s part of it. As Korean guitars go up in quality, Korean prices do also. PRS needs certain margins to stay in business. There will always be a teething process as production gets shifted to new factories. Keep in mind, these Indonesian factories may not understand exactly what quality level Paul expects until they’ve run a few thousand guitars.

Bag the collectors item talk. I have 5 Korean Se’s of excellent quality. I’ve run an optical business for 40 years. If my venders change factories and the quality drops, I don't carry The lesser quality. I dropped Oakley years ago for that reason. I’m fiercely loyal to quality manufacturers, which is why all of my solid bodies are PRS. I wouldn’t dream of buying any other brand unless I played it for hours. I can buy a PRS on line and know it’ll be good when it arrives. The Indonesian guitars have me concerned.

 

[Mark 10top]

I bought a sweetwater rosewood exotic SE made in Korea and a Zicricote SE made in Indonesia in the last month and customized both. The Indonesia had no problems at all, the Korean had the bridge pickup ring mounted with 1 screw that belonged in the neck(too short to grab wood, thought at first the wood was stripped) then the input jack screw holes stripped with no pressure on the screw when putting the jack plate back on. I thought for sure the Korean would be better built than the Indonesian, it wasn't.

 

[Tim S]

Bag the collectors item talk.

Guys, I was the one who mentioned flawed Cor-Teks being collectors items. I put a grinning emoji next to the comment to indicate sarcasm. I guess that was lost on some folks.

I don't think this thread was intended to be a gripe about PRS switching SE production from Korea to Indonesia in general. Wildwood has been producing great SE Standards for some time now. So lets stop this thread from becoming a Korea vs Indonesia rant.

PRS could have switched from Korea to Wildwood -- a known partner rather than switch to Cor-Tek (which I think everyone is conceding is having some teething problems(.

PRS made a great deal about putting Paul's signature on the SE headstock because they finally meet his expectations for carrying his name. Given that, I think the OP has a legitimate gripe about mis-aligned birds (a company logo) on the fretboard on a guitar called "Paul's Guitar".

 

[LehMaik]

I believe the pictures imply that he works on all different tuners. You have to supply your own tuners and then the conversion is done upon them. You pull them from the guitar and ship them if you don't live local.

-k

Wouldn't it be bad for the guitar if I take out the tuners to send them from Germany to USA and wait until they're modified and shipped back? It would mean the guitar won't have any string tension for days or even weeks.

 

[Ovibos]

Wouldn't it be bad for the guitar if I take out the tuners to send them from Germany to USA and wait until they're modified and shipped back? It would mean the guitar won't have any string tension for days or even weeks.

If it was a cheap guitar, maybe. Not a PRS.

You could keep it under tension by looking at it disapprovingly every few hours.

 

[shimmilou]

.....rather than switch to Cor-Tek (which I think everyone is conceding is having some teething problems(.....

You think incorrectly, there is no conceding any such thing, and particularly not even close to “everyone”. There have been maybe a half-dozen legitimate complaints, and I’m being generous here, which is hardly an indication of “teething problems”.

 

[Tim S]

You think incorrectly, there is no conceding any such thing, and particularly not even close to “everyone”. There have been maybe a half-dozen legitimate complaints, and I’m being generous here, which is hardly an indication of “teething problems”.

We have a difference of opinion. Please don't judge my ability to think. That's insulting.

It would be more appropriate to say that you are an exception. When it comes down to it, you are no more able to speak for everyone than I am.

I was just trying to build some concensus -- Sorry to offend you.

 

[Victek]

Wouldn't it be bad for the guitar if I take out the tuners to send them from Germany to USA and wait until they're modified and shipped back? It would mean the guitar won't have any string tension for days or even weeks.

If it's a concern you could back off the truss bar tension a little while the strings are off, but hopefully it's not necessary - check with a guitar tech.

 

[robota]

I purchased a 2018 SE Custom 24 about a month ago, and am quite pleased. The fret work is outstanding. The guitar really resonates with B notes and chords. The top is interesting with the trampas green natural back combo. It had a loose pot and switch, but that was an easy fix. Intonation was within 3 cents on all strings and no fret buzz out of the box. I considered trading up to a CE24, but after playing a couple, I couldn't justify the cost. The wood and the neck are so nice on the Indonesian SE that I can swap components to bridge the gap and still have a set neck and $500 in my pocket (used PRRI? stomp spree?).

After reading the reviews on this forum of the Cor-Tek SEs, I really tried to hate this guitar, but I just can't help but like it. I just need to snag some 59/09s for it, and make a decision on the bridge (that Wudtone A/B video is powerful stuff).

 

[dogrocketp]

Live with the stock bridge for a while. Wudtone invaded the forum when they first came up, and I hated that as a business practice. I never found it necessary to alter the tremolo, unless the previous owner destroyed it.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Live with the stock bridge for a while. Wudtone invaded the forum when they first came up, and I hated that as a business practice. I never found it necessary to alter the tremolo, unless the previous owner destroyed it.

Some of the before and after YT videos didn’t leave a good taste in my mouth.

Let your product speak for itself, don’t “bad mouth” your competitor.

 

[robota]

Some of the before and after YT videos didn’t leave a good taste in my mouth.

Could you not hear a difference? Was it worse?

 

[andy474x]

I played a few Cor-Tek SE’s a couple weeks ago and they were really nice. I was waiting to say one way or another until I had a chance to really try them, but they were solid. A few CU24’s and a Tremonti, IIRC.

 

[Mozzi]

CorTek are not new to making guitars and have been used by numerous big brands to build their instruments. I haven't heard anyone complain about something that actually has a major impact on the 3 major aspects of an instrument - that being Playability, Functionality and Sound. Every guitar that I have heard someone complain about has been something that isn't cosmetically perfect.

In each case, the guitar has been perfectly playable meaning that the neck, the fretwork, the bridge etc are as expected. The tuners, the Pick-ups, the electronics, the pots/switch etc all function as expected and the sound that the guitar makes is as expected. In other words, its doing the job that it was built to do - its a fully functioning instrument.

I saw one complaint that the recessed backplate had a small gap - small enough that you couldn't see into the cavity but that wasn't 'good' enough despite the fact that many brands don't recess the backplates at all - even on guitars costing more than a core PRS. If the neck was twisted, the frets not level or anything that stopped the guitar from being a fully functional instrument that stayed in tune with working electronics switches etc then I could understand peoples complaints. I would be annoyed if the input jack was causing crackling, the tone/volume pots were ineffective, if the frets weren't level or positioned correctly but a minor issue that would probably cost more than the guitar does to fix but doesn't actually matter to the Playability, functionality or tonality of the instrument. Its the equivalent of a bit of dust under the finish, a slightly off centre side dot etc to strip a guitar down and refinish to remove that dust that you couldn't feel, to change the set neck to get a perfectly centred side-dot etc would cost more than the guitar - its cheaper to scrap a perfectly functional instrument.

And people pay more for an artificially beaten up 'relic' looking instrument....