Neck shape question

[Allergic1025]

Hello all!

I had a 1997 CE24 with the wide/thin neck and while I loved everything about the guitar, the neck always made my fretting hand cramp after a short while so I sold it. This was with classical hand positions, thumb over, soft touch, didn’t matter. I don’t squeeze the neck or fret with significant pressure, just enough to sound a note. I think it’s the shoulders of the neck in particular that hurt but I’m not sure.

Does anyone know if the newer pattern/thin carve is actually different from the old wide/thin? I love the PRS build quality and tone and I’d like to try again with one but I’d like to be able to play the guitar without pain.

I’m close to pulling the trigger on another 90’s CE but I’d hate to repeat my experience again.

 

[bodia]

Here's some helpful info

https://support.prsguitars.com/hc/en-us/articles/5841437925659-Neck-Profiles

 

[Allergic1025]

Thanks for that. Just wondering if any of you who have played both the older wide/thin and the newer pattern/thin find them distinctly different.

 

[MarcWink]

I can't speak for the Wide/Thin vs. Pattern/Thin, but I can speak to Wide/Fat vs. Pattern (updated version of Wide/Fat) and to my hand, there's maybe a bee's peepee of difference between the two, and honestly, the variation is no more than that of one Wide/Fat to another depending on who did the sanding on the neck (i.e. the human induced variations). That said, I've also had a couple guitars with the Pattern Regular (still have one), I've got one with the Pattern/Thin and I've had one with the Pattern Vintage. Wide/Fat and Pattern Vintage are tied for first for me, but I like fat chunky necks, Pattern Regular is a close second to those as it's got a little more meat on it front to back and the Pattern Thin is bringing up the rear. It may be worth you trying a guitar with the Pattern Regular neck as they're the tiniest bit narrower from bass to treble side and they've got a little more depth front to back. With the Wide/Thin cramping may have come from width and depth of the neck.

Feel free to take my remarks with a tablespoon or five of salt since I'm fairly neck blind as I've had guitars with necks of all kinds of shapes and sizes (Gibson 50's rounded, Gibson 60's Slim Taper, Ibanez Wizard Prestige, Schecter thin C 7 profile, ESP Thin U shape 7 string profile, that weird proprietary not quite a 50's not quite a 60's neck on the Explorer, SE Silver Sky, all of the necks that have found their way onto PRS Core instruments). I've never had issues with hand cramping, but I've noticed preferences with respect to fretboard radius, 10-12 being my preference for an all around fiddle and either a compound 10-16 or straight 16 for a super shreddy type of fiddle.

 

[Allergic1025]

Really helpful info and colorful language too! Thanks so much!

 

[alantig]

I can't speak for the Wide/Thin vs. Pattern/Thin, but I can speak to Wide/Fat vs. Pattern (updated version of Wide/Fat) and to my hand, there's maybe a bee's peepee of difference between the two, and honestly, the variation is no more than that of one Wide/Fat to another depending on who did the sanding on the neck (i.e. the human induced variations). That said, I've also had a couple guitars with the Pattern Regular (still have one), I've got one with the Pattern/Thin and I've had one with the Pattern Vintage. Wide/Fat and Pattern Vintage are tied for first for me, but I like fat chunky necks, Pattern Regular is a close second to those as it's got a little more meat on it front to back and the Pattern Thin is bringing up the rear. It may be worth you trying a guitar with the Pattern Regular neck as they're the tiniest bit narrower from bass to treble side and they've got a little more depth front to back. With the Wide/Thin cramping may have come from width and depth of the neck.

Feel free to take my remarks with a tablespoon or five of salt since I'm fairly neck blind as I've had guitars with necks of all kinds of shapes and sizes (Gibson 50's rounded, Gibson 60's Slim Taper, Ibanez Wizard Prestige, Schecter thin C 7 profile, ESP Thin U shape 7 string profile, that weird proprietary not quite a 50's not quite a 60's neck on the Explorer, SE Silver Sky, all of the necks that have found their way onto PRS Core instruments). I've never had issues with hand cramping, but I've noticed preferences with respect to fretboard radius, 10-12 being my preference for an all around fiddle and either a compound 10-16 or straight 16 for a super shreddy type of fiddle.

I obviously can't dispute what you may or may not feel when it comes to the differences between necks. Many of us have seen the video from the development of the SE DGT where DGH says the one they sent him feels thicker than he wanted at one point, and when they checked their sheet, it was - by .001". Like you, I'm pretty neck carve agnostic, although I've had hand cramps on occasion with some carves (but so rarely that I can't say it was a particular carve that caused it).

What I'm curious about is how many bee pee-pees you've handled to be able to use them as a comparison point.

 

[JasonE]

I can't speak for the Wide/Thin vs. Pattern/Thin, but I can speak to Wide/Fat vs. Pattern (updated version of Wide/Fat) and to my hand, there's maybe a bee's peepee of difference between the two, and honestly, the variation is no more than that of one Wide/Fat to another depending on who did the sanding on the neck (i.e. the human induced variations). That said, I've also had a couple guitars with the Pattern Regular (still have one), I've got one with the Pattern/Thin and I've had one with the Pattern Vintage. Wide/Fat and Pattern Vintage are tied for first for me, but I like fat chunky necks, Pattern Regular is a close second to those as it's got a little more meat on it front to back and the Pattern Thin is bringing up the rear. It may be worth you trying a guitar with the Pattern Regular neck as they're the tiniest bit narrower from bass to treble side and they've got a little more depth front to back. With the Wide/Thin cramping may have come from width and depth of the neck.

Feel free to take my remarks with a tablespoon or five of salt since I'm fairly neck blind as I've had guitars with necks of all kinds of shapes and sizes (Gibson 50's rounded, Gibson 60's Slim Taper, Ibanez Wizard Prestige, Schecter thin C 7 profile, ESP Thin U shape 7 string profile, that weird proprietary not quite a 50's not quite a 60's neck on the Explorer, SE Silver Sky, all of the necks that have found their way onto PRS Core instruments). I've never had issues with hand cramping, but I've noticed preferences with respect to fretboard radius, 10-12 being my preference for an all around fiddle and either a compound 10-16 or straight 16 for a super shreddy type of fiddle.

I am pretty much right there with you. I like the Pattern Vintage and Pattern necks the best. I also have some older guitars with Wide Fat and Wide Thin on them. To me, the newer Pattern neck is pretty close to my older Wide Fat necks. I have a couple that are on the chunky side. I find that the Studio I bought last fall with the Pattern neck just feels really good to me but it feels very much like my old CU22. I am very fond of the neck on my 594 as well. I don't really fell the elliptical part of the neck, which is good. It just works and I don't notice anything weird.

I have a couple of P22 guitars that have the Pattern Regular neck. I wish they were Pattern but am able to play them without much adjustment so they still work for me.

My least favorite neck is the Wide Thin on my CU24. I don't hate it, it is just the one I like the least out of the ones I have. It does feel a little faster but isn't the one I reach for first.

 

[MarcWink]

I obviously can't dispute what you may or may not feel when it comes to the differences between necks. Many of us have seen the video from the development of the SE DGT where DGH says the one they sent him feels thicker than he wanted at one point, and when they checked their sheet, it was - by .001". Like you, I'm pretty neck carve agnostic, although I've had hand cramps on occasion with some carves (but so rarely that I can't say it was a particular carve that caused it).

What I'm curious about is how many bee pee-pees you've handled to be able to use them as a comparison point.

I haven't handled a ton of bee's pee-pees, basing this measurement on hearsay from others . Given the variety of different necks that I've played and owned over the years, I definitely have preferences, but I can pretty much make anything work...unless the guitar has too many strings. No 8 or 9 string for me.

 

[JasonE]

I haven't handled a ton of bee's pee-pees, basing this measurement on hearsay from others . Given the variety of different necks that I've played and owned over the years, I definitely have preferences, but I can pretty much make anything work...unless the guitar has too many strings. No 8 or 9 string for me.

I forgot to make the distinction that I am there with you on the neck carves but I have zero knowledge on the bees pee-pees. I defer that topic.

 

[SinSir]

I haven't handled a ton of bee's pee-pees, basing this measurement on hearsay from others .

Funny, had a bee fly into the house today.. must have heard through the honeycomb there's some PRS neck action in here.

I'm with you. Not very neck sensitive. Sure have my favs, but overall I bounce between them without much of an issue. I'd also say the variance between the updated profiles and older is similar to hand sanding from one to another.