Zeroing in on PS

[veinbuster]

For backs, a sandwich on a semi-hollow will look very nice with a maple back. You'd have to check how that interplays with chambering. It will add to the cost.

Here is one of my favourite examples of how nice mahogany can look. Pair it with a nice mahogany neck (the photo I can't find at the moment) and you have a stunning rear view.

 

[rugerpc]

I fully intend to be a very good listener when it finally comes to be my time in the wood vault. I understand that everyone in there with me will know more about what it takes to get what I want than I do.

At this point, I'm just trying to get my starting point, my launchpad. I'm fully prepared to make changes based on the excellent suggestions I hope to get in the vault. I'm hoping that Jack will be my dealer and accompany me and that Paul Miles will be there and Tina. It would be cool if Paul Smith were there too, but I'm not kidding myself. That red "moderator" badge on my profile doesn't get me his ear, and trust me, I'm no higher in the food chain than the rest of the members here.

But lots of the members have made the trip and I'm hoping to learn from their experiences. What combinations worked, what didn't quite hit the mark.

So, I'm fully prepared to go into the room with my list and have those who know better look at it and say, "That would sound/play like sh!t. Do this instead."

 

[toothace]

I fully intend to be a very good listener when it finally comes to be my time in the wood vault. I understand that everyone in there with me will know more about what it takes to get what I want than I do.

At this point, I'm just trying to get my starting point, my launchpad. I'm fully prepared to make changes based on the excellent suggestions I hope to get in the vault. I'm hoping that Jack will be my dealer and accompany me and that Paul Miles will be there and Tina. It would be cool if Paul Smith were there too, but I'm not kidding myself. That red "moderator" badge on my profile doesn't get me his ear, and trust me, I'm no higher in the food chain than the rest of the members here.

But lots of the members have made the trip and I'm hoping to learn from their experiences. What combinations worked, what didn't quite hit the mark.

So, I'm fully prepared to go into the room with my list and have those who know better look at it and say, "That would sound/play like sh!t. Do this instead."

This is exactly how I feel too...(same boat thing again...) I've printed out the spec sheet and started filling in the blanks, yet I have every intention of listening to everything Brian G(one of these days Brian...don't give up on me yet! LOL) and the PS folks have to say when the time is finally here to visit the Vault.

 

[veinbuster]

I fully intend to be a very good listener when it finally comes to be my time in the wood vault. I understand that everyone in there with me will know more about what it takes to get what I want than I do.

That is a good approach. Try to settle in your mind the core of what you want, so that you can express it well to the people who will help you. Be open minded about the best way to achieve what you want.

I've said this before to people going to the vault for a build, but I'll repeat it: when you're saying what you want, pay attention to Paul Miles reaction. He knows a lot about what works and his immediate reaction might tell you as much as what he says. If you see an unexpected reaction, ask him what is behind it - you might not change your mind, but you want to take advantage of his experience.

 

[vchizzle]

Bill, you're setting out and going about this exactly the right way IMO. Pete has given you a lot info that I likely would've said as well. He's got more knowledge and first hand experience with wood combos than I do. I think you're very much on the right track so far for the sound you're after. I think the McCarty body, semi hollow with one F hole is the right direction.

I knew pretty much what I wanted before going in. I knew I wanted traditional woods in maple, hog and BRW. They've had a good deal of figured hog in the vault lately. I'd be interested to know what some of the "abnormal" top woods sound like in a hollow/semi hollow construction. There's a few here that have done those, would be cool if they chime in. Depends a lot on what you want visually as well as tone there, of course. But there has been some cool stuff go through. Just saying there could be cool options outside maple to enhance the tone you're after.

I would urge 2 volume knobs. You can get some really sweet tones mixing different volume levels of each pickup that just aren't possible any other way. The piezo kinda throws a wrench in there for that though. I think you have to go with a ghost system rather than PRS then.

 

[László]

I'm not a fan of piezos, so I wouldn't put one on a PS. Too much of a compromise, unless you plan to play out with it and need the ability to cover acoustic guitar parts.

That's just me. Just my opinion. Others will disagree.

 

[alantig]

I'll chime in on a couple things. You may get to talk to PRSh about your guitar. You may not. Depends on his schedule. He popped in during my build, but the two of us in there didn't get a lot of time with him. It is what it is - he's a busy guy.

But definitely listen to Paul Miles. Dude has a ton of knowledge, and he'll encourage you, but he'll also tell you if you're heading in the wrong direction. With mine, one of the big questions was how the electronics would work. As I recall, it basically came down to I had to adjust or I had to have a bigger control cavity. Paul wouldn't say "do this" or "do that" - he told me what the likely consequences would be in terms of each choice, and if there was uncertainty, he made that clear as well. In the end, I changed my control set up with the goal of better tone. Now, would I have been able to tell the difference? Likely not. But he didn't treat me like the schlub player I am - he treated me like I would immediately be able to tell the difference if an eighth of an inch of wood was removed.

It's potentially an intimidating process - so many choices, so many variables. But top quality people to guide you. And you never know what might catch your eye or ear in the vault. I was convinced I was going Indian RW on my neck, but the Honduran they had just rang beautifully. And I could see Brian and Paul's reaction to the Honduran, but neither of them would say "pick that". But when I did, they both said I made the right choice.

You're going to be in good hands. I can't wait to hear the story.

 

[veinbuster]

I would urge 2 volume knobs. You can get some really sweet tones mixing different volume levels of each pickup that just aren't possible any other way. The piezo kinda throws a wrench in there for that though. I think you have to go with a ghost system rather than PRS then.

I'm a big fan of 2 volumes as well. I really like to be able to blend the 2 pickups rather than turn them on and off.

 

[veinbuster]

I found the other back photo I wanted to show. This is a mahogany back and neck. The two pieces were selected in the vault because I thought they would look like they came from the same chunk of wood when they were put together on the guitar.

 

[rugerpc]

But definitely listen to Paul Miles. Dude has a ton of knowledge, and he'll encourage you, but he'll also tell you if you're heading in the wrong direction. With mine, one of the big questions was how the electronics would work. As I recall, it basically came down to I had to adjust or I had to have a bigger control cavity. Paul wouldn't say "do this" or "do that" - he told me what the likely consequences would be in terms of each choice, and if there was uncertainty, he made that clear as well. In the end, I changed my control set up with the goal of better tone. Now, would I have been able to tell the difference? Likely not. But he didn't treat me like the schlub player I am - he treated me like I would immediately be able to tell the difference if an eighth of an inch of wood was removed.

I'm not ready to go into what I want for electronics yet, but I'd like to hear more about what Paul says about removing wood.

I'm assuming that what he told you would also apply to semi-hollow vs solid. Did he touch on that, were his remarks limited to the electronics cavity? What did he say the changes would be?

Of course anyone else who has insight on control cavity size and semi-hollow vs solid should chime in too.

 

[alantig]

I'm not ready to go into what I want for electronics yet, but I'd like to hear more about what Paul says about removing wood.

I'm assuming that what he told you would also apply to semi-hollow vs solid. Did he touch on that, were his remarks limited to the electronics cavity? What did he say the changes would be?

Of course anyone else who has insight on control cavity size and semi-hollow vs solid should chime in too.

I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to lose the low end. I wasn't questing for quite the same tone Vaghn was after, but I wanted to make sure I didn't get too far to the treble end. Paul never said what the effect of the bigger cavity would be, just that there would be an effect. And it's hard to say whether someone else can hear it.

 

[rugerpc]

I'm not a fan of piezos, so I wouldn't put one on a PS. Too much of a compromise, unless you plan to play out with it and need the ability to cover acoustic guitar parts.

That's just me. Just my opinion. Others will disagree.

Les, can you detail the compromise?

Are you talking about the electric tone or the acoustic tone or both?

 

[László]

Les, can you detail the compromise?

Are you talking about the electric tone or the acoustic tone or both?

Acoustic.

If you're not playing out with a band, what's the point of playing a fake acoustic guitar that doesn't sound as good as an actual acoustic guitar? I mean, you could just walk over to your guitar stand, or your couch and pick up an acoustic guitar and play it.

I get needing them for band shows. I completely understand. That's another thing. So if you're in a band and would take the PS to gigs, by all means, the piezo isn't a bad idea.

I have a piezo on my Tonare PS. It came on the guitar. I've tried it just for grins. I've had them on other guitars. They quack. There's no getting around it: They quack. A quacking acoustic guitar tone is NOT an acoustic guitar tone. It's the AFLAC duck tone.

So here you're going to put together a great electric guitar, with wonderful woods, and perfection in tones, and then you're going to switch its selector to the AFLAC duck? I don't understand why. 'Splain why that's a good thing.

I mean, why not just put a kazoo and the kitchen sink on the guitar, too? And MIDI, Gotta have MIDI. Because you may want to play a synth via the guitar.

Oh wait, I may need to do that thing with the kazoo. Hmmm. I'd sound better no doubt...

No. I'm sorry. It spoils the whole concept of the perfect guitar. I simply can't let a friend do it. I'm going to go on a hunger strike until you abandon the idea.

Please abandon the idea soon, as I've recently lost a lot of weight.

 

[rugerpc]

Eat a sammich, Les.

I get your objections. The acoustic tone is not anything like a real acoustic.

I have a spruce gold top HBI with piezo. I enjoy changing back and forth without having to switch guitars.

I do have some nice acoustics. ALL of them are more difficult to play due to action and string tension.

So, here is another question that no one has answered.

Does a piezo bridge negatively impact the tone for the electric side? Measurably? Enough to notice the difference?

 

[veinbuster]

Does a piezo bridge negatively impact the tone for the electric side? Measurably? Enough to notice the difference?

I do not believe so. This is based on a good bit of time with 2 HBII, one with piezo, one without.

I'm pretty comfortable with a piezo on an electric. While I have much better acoustics for a pure acoustic sound, I feel the piezo lets me blend in greater variety in the tonal range of the guitar. I often play with about 40% piezo blended in. I would include piezo or not based on how cluttered it might make the electronics as a whole. For example, If I felt a strong need for 2 volume (which I like) and 2 tones (which I don't really use), I wouldn't add a 5th knob for the piezo.

 

[László]

Eat a sammich, Les.

I get your objections. The acoustic tone is not anything like a real acoustic.

I have a spruce gold top HBI with piezo. I enjoy changing back and forth without having to switch guitars.

I can't eat a sammich. I wouldn't be able to keep that sammich down.

Because you are still talkin' that duck thing.

So I'm on a hunger strike as of now. Soon I will be wearing a Ghandi diaper and a blanket, and spinning wool. I will lead a march to Maryland. It will probably not be a Million Man March.

It will probably be more like...a One Man March. One Lone Voice, crying in the wilderness, lonely, sad, unappreciated.

But I will march to Maryland and thence to the Sea in protest. The British may beat me along the way, as they did Ghandi's volunteers; they may imprison me; they may call me mad. But soon...soon, your Private Stock will be Piezo Free and the World will be a safer place, where all men and women will play music with joyful smiles, and blissful appreciation of Tone.

You want that, don't you? You don't want to disappoint a man who is clearly going to die of starvation if you don't give up this piezo duck dream, do you?

You need only give the word. So far this hunger strike is a very difficult thing. It's been three hours since my last meal. Three...hours. I may not make it until morning....

Say, could you hand me that spinning wheel?

 

[markintime]

Les, it doesn't look good. Can I have that Tonare? You can take out the piezo, I promise I won't use it if you leave it in though. Hm, hunh, hunh, hunh?

 

[vchizzle]

Hey Les, not everyone can sit in their studio chair and layer 50 things on top of each other on their DAW. Is the piezo a picture perfect acoustic sound? Of course not. But unless Bill grows 2 more freaking arms, he can't effectively play acoustic and electric at the same time. The piezo sounds very good for what it does. Bill seems to like it and like playing with it. When I had my SCHB II, I had great fun running my piezo thru the PA and the mag thru my amps. Creative moments that became new music. I used that piezo on two tracks that I recorded. It adds depth to the parts and layers to the tracks. No, I didn't want a REAL acoustic guitar there either. I could've shaped it to sound pretty convincing if that's what I was after though. Guess those songs have a
£#€£ing duck sampled in. There's layers and textures one can create that can't be done by a single person in any other way.

For someone who generally treats people very respectfully, you failed miserably here. Why don't you just say anyone who's put a piezo on their PS put a worthless piece of junk in their guitar? You could've easily made your point without sounding like a raging lunatic and insulting people. There's a lot of value in the piezo system for some people even if they use it by themselves at home. Just because it had zero value to you, doesn't mean that applies to everyone else.

Love,
Vaughn

 

[vchizzle]

I do not believe so. This is based on a good bit of time with 2 HBII, one with piezo, one without.

I'm pretty comfortable with a piezo on an electric. While I have much better acoustics for a pure acoustic sound, I feel the piezo lets me blend in greater variety in the tonal range of the guitar. I often play with about 40% piezo blended in. I would include piezo or not based on how cluttered it might make the electronics as a whole. For example, If I felt a strong need for 2 volume (which I like) and 2 tones (which I don't really use), I wouldn't add a 5th knob for the piezo.

Agree 100% with everything here. Since the piezo isn't something I needed much, I left it off. I really wanted dual volumes and didn't want more knobs and switches than what I have.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I've had them on other guitars. They quack. There's no getting around it: They quack. A quacking acoustic guitar tone is NOT an acoustic guitar tone. It's the AFLAC duck tone.

(squints) Really? I don't hear it as a quack. Will have to go back and give it a listen.

I don't really treat it as an acoustic emulation, I treat it as another pickup with another tonal characteristic. One that I sometimes want.