theDeepender
Yup…
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2022
- Messages
- 741
And if beneficial, what did you use to practice them?
Very impressive.I believe the answer to this question is based upon what it is you are trying to accomplish. If you are trying to compose original work, knowing the theory is of course important, but the scales may or may not be important depending on what type of stuff you want to compose. As Les mentioned, Neil Young didn't have to use scales to make memorable work, nor did Bob Dylan. There is plenty of very simple Beatles work that does not need any scales practice to play and make entertaining. So if you are wanting to play like EVH (and expand upon his work if that is possible), you should probably learn/practice scales, but if you just want to duplicate what EVH plays, you should specifically learn what EVH plays and practice that rather than the scales he built his work around. Yes, understanding how it was built may help you build upon it, but if you are not looking to change it and want to nail it note for note, I think the scales could just get in your way.
I built a spreadsheet (feel free to use, cite ways to improve, point out mistakes, etc. - still a work in progress) starting in 2002 that has quite a few scales and a bit of theory on it. Unfortunately, I have spent more time building it than I have spent using it as a tool to practice what is in it. I did just a few weeks ago find a blues pattern in my spreadsheet that I really like, and I have been messing around with that in noodling and have even incorporated it as a solo a couple of times when practicing. I am focused on composing my own music for the most part, so I have been trying to work on this stuff lately to make my pieces more interesting than the cowboy chord stuff I usually write. "One chord is fine. Two chords are pushing it. Three chords and you're into jazz." - Lou Reed! That is from the man whose band got people to start more bands than they sold records by some peoples measures (at least that is the lore)! Although I love Lou and all he did, I am feeling drawn to the more than 3 chord options at this point (though I will never abandon or discredit the work that is created in even the simplest of format).
Best of luck Deepender, but whatever you do, play more!!!!
Humility and honesty.Like many who began with listening to LPs and cassettes, we usually tried to hear what was being played, but didn't know what mode or scale was implemented. In time, as we did our due diligence and listened our forefathers music (most musicians trace current music back to jazz, blues, Black gospel and spirituals, etc) and understand the history of the music, rather than try understand the theory behind it. Most every musicologist has a basic knowledge of the history.
Musicians, however, who practice regularly, who wish to improve on basic knowledge, typically benefit from understanding modes and scales, the vocabulary of music. Myself included, there are many of us who have never moved beyond basic pentatonic, or minor pentatonic scales, because our focus as blues guitarists didn't require much more.
However, as music has become vastly more complex, what with detuning and altered tunings, there is a greater need to learn modes and scales, simply because more talented guitarists will only understand you if you speak their language, the language of music. For example, the flatted 3rd or 5th, how would you like me to play over the turnaround, should we try this with a syncopated feel, etc...?
That being said, my knowledge of modes and scales is next to nil, compared to my nephew and niece's knowledge. Both of these studied jazz and voice in college, and one hopes to teach secondary school students in jazz studies soon. I wish them well.
As for me, I am a student for life regards music, simply because my share in all of this requires general improvement. The way to that is first to listen to various modes and scales as they're sounded out to you, so your ear can recognize when one mode or scale is being used. There used to be a website that did just that, but I've forgotten what that site was.
Then, learn the note vocabulary so you know when a flatted whatever resolves to a pleasing-sounding major or dominant. Part of modes and scales is being able to hear the changes in modes or scales, and knowing when you use each scale corresponding to the chord changes. This is all basic thought, but actually applying what you learn leads to mastering your instrument.
Notwithstanding, I have yet to learn what is needed so I can apply my knowledge. Like many, I'm still noodling with pentatonic and minor pentatonic scales while tossing in some jazz notes for effect. Doesn't make for "good music" by any means, but it help me keep what pitiful chops I already possess viable. This student of life has much more to learn, but often doesn't practice enough what he needs to learn.
Very astute observation and well said. My voice background helps me recognize (if not immediately differentiate) different modes, boxes and variations, but my piano and horn based brain often refuses to adapt quickly to changes and shifts. Keys are much more absolute in comparison so it does give me fits at times. I'm getting better, but sure as H.E double hockey sticks ain't getting any younger. Practice is paramount for this aged adolescent I'm afraid.Like many who began with listening to LPs and cassettes, we usually tried to hear what was being played, but didn't know what mode or scale was implemented. In time, as we did our due diligence and listened our forefathers music (most musicians trace current music back to jazz, blues, Black gospel and spirituals, etc) and understand the history of the music, rather than try understand the theory behind it. Most every musicologist has a basic knowledge of the history.
Musicians, however, who practice regularly, who wish to improve on basic knowledge, typically benefit from understanding modes and scales, the vocabulary of music. Myself included, there are many of us who have never moved beyond basic pentatonic, or minor pentatonic scales, because our focus as blues guitarists didn't require much more.
However, as music has become vastly more complex, what with detuning and altered tunings, there is a greater need to learn modes and scales, simply because more talented guitarists will only understand you if you speak their language, the language of music. For example, the flatted 3rd or 5th, how would you like me to play over the turnaround, should we try this with a syncopated feel, etc...?
That being said, my knowledge of modes and scales is next to nil, compared to my nephew and niece's knowledge. Both of these studied jazz and voice in college, and one hopes to teach secondary school students in jazz studies soon. I wish them well.
As for me, I am a student for life regards music, simply because my share in all of this requires general improvement. The way to that is first to listen to various modes and scales as they're sounded out to you, so your ear can recognize when one mode or scale is being used. There used to be a website that did just that, but I've forgotten what that site was.
Then, learn the note vocabulary so you know when a flatted whatever resolves to a pleasing-sounding major or dominant. Part of modes and scales is being able to hear the changes in modes or scales, and knowing when you use each scale corresponding to the chord changes. This is all basic thought, but actually applying what you learn leads to mastering your instrument.
Notwithstanding, I have yet to learn what is needed so I can apply my knowledge. Like many, I'm still noodling with pentatonic and minor pentatonic scales while tossing in some jazz notes for effect. Doesn't make for "good music" by any means, but it help me keep what pitiful chops I already possess viable. This student of life has much more to learn, but often doesn't practice enough what he needs to learn.