Your Favorite Amp's Tone Signature?

[László]

I'd find it really difficult if I had to keep going with only four.

Four amps are three too many. They all sound really great; any one of them will work for what I do musically.

All the cabs sound good, too. I can make any of them work.

Same with the guitars.

It’s fine to have choices, provided making the choice doesn’t interfere with the creative process — by that I mean creating music, as opposed to being a sound designer.

I’ve come full circle on this, and might again for all I know.

Incidentally, a studio owner I know did some recording for an ad; voice overs. He asked if they needed music.

The response was, “Nah, we’ll just use A.I.”

I knew it would happen eventually, but this demonstrates it’s happening now.

The party’s pretty much over. Good thing I’m past having to worry about it, age-wise.

Another reason I don’t need all this stuff.

I’m not a collector or hobbyist, all I used it for was work. That’s going away. The gear can go, too. I should sell it while it’s still worth something!

I think I’ll keep a couple of things around just for fun, but my goose is cooked.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Four amps are three too many. They all sound really great; any one of them will work for what I do musically.

All the cabs sound good, too. I can make any of them work.

Same with the guitars.

It’s fine to have choices, provided making the choice doesn’t interfere with the creative process — by that I mean creating music, as opposed to being a sound designer.

I’ve come full circle on this, and might again for all I know.

Incidentally, a studio owner I know did some recording for an ad; voice overs. He asked if they needed music.

The response was, “Nah, we’ll just use A.I.”

I knew it would happen eventually, but this demonstrates it’s happening now.

The party’s pretty much over. Good thing I’m past having to worry about it, age-wise.

Another reason I don’t need all this stuff.

I’m not a collector or hobbyist, all I used it for was work. That’s going away. The gear can go, too. I should sell it while it’s still worth something!

I think I’ll keep a couple of things around just for fun, but my goose is cooked.

Oof! Ya know, I knew the first use of AI music generating technology was gonna be for ads and soundtracks and stuff, it’s just a shame it’s already started.

 

[László]

Oof! Ya know, I knew the first use of AI music generating technology was gonna be for ads and soundtracks and stuff, it’s just a shame it’s already started.

I just had a conversation with my son about this (he's in town for a wedding). He's friendly with one of the guys who created and owns an AI music platform, and we listened to some material the program generates.

It was extremely good.

Did it have 'soul'? I dunno; it sounded formulaic, but would certainly work for ad soundtracks under a voice over.

I think there will be an audience for live performances by humans; there are still people who want to see rock concerts, jazz shows, and go to the symphony and opera. That might become a more important thing as time goes on, depending on people's attitudes to AI.

There will be an audience who will insist on "created by human beings" recordings; I figure it'll be a situation similar to people who want fresh, organic food vs folks who are perfectly happy with bags of Cheetos and Macdonalds.

And there may be folks who will be happy with both, perhaps the majority.

But whatever happens, it's not going to be what we've gotten used to pre-AI.

The same thing will probably happen with novels, movies, TV. I suppose that holographic projection by AI could make it happen with plays and musicals, too, if that's what people want to see.

The whole idea of machines replacing creative people makes me nauseous. Call me a Luddite.

What are we supposed to do? Just sit around and be entertained by machines? I can't imagine anything that sucks more, but what do I know.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I just had a conversation with my son about this (he's in town for a wedding). He's friendly with one of the guys who created and owns an AI music platform, and we listened to some material the program generates.

It was extremely good.

Did it have 'soul'? I dunno; it sounded formulaic, but would certainly work for ad soundtracks under a voice over.

I think there will be an audience for live performances by humans; there are still people who want to see rock concerts, jazz shows, and go to the symphony and opera. That might become a more important thing as time goes on, depending on people's attitudes to AI.

There will be an audience who will insist on "created by human beings" recordings; I figure it'll be a situation similar to people who want fresh, organic food vs folks who are perfectly happy with bags of Cheetos and Macdonalds.

And there may be folks who will be happy with both, perhaps the majority.

But whatever happens, it's not going to be what we've gotten used to pre-AI.

The same thing will probably happen with novels, movies, TV. I suppose that holographic projection by AI could make it happen with plays and musicals, too, if that's what people want to see.

The whole idea of machines replacing creative people makes me nauseous. Call me a Luddite.

What are we supposed to do? Just sit around and be entertained by machines? I can't imagine anything that sucks more, but what do I know.

Word.

I thought AI was supposed to do the jobs we didn’t want to do, not the stuff we wanted to do.

Whatever, eventually AI will learn to code and then the tech bros who invented it will have no purpose either.

 

[aamefford]

I’ve seen “Terminator” and its siblings too many times. I’m moving to nowhere, buying half a dozen shipping containers and filling them with emergency rations, water, antibiotics, morphine, cocaine, pot, gold, diamonds, ammo and guns. Lots of guns.

Ok, given my economic viability and actual conviction, maybe a 55 gallon drum buried in the backyard with a $100, bottle of vodka, a sling shot and a bunch of rocks.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I’ve seen “Terminator” and its siblings too many times. I’m moving to nowhere, buying half a dozen shipping containers and filling them with emergency rations, water, antibiotics, morphine, cocaine, pot, gold, diamonds, ammo and guns. Lots of guns.

Ok, given my economic viability and actual conviction, maybe a 55 gallon drum buried in the backyard with a $100, bottle of vodka, a sling shot and a bunch of rocks.

You really wanna die in the initial blast anyway.

 

[Prina]

Whatever, eventually AI will learn to code and then the tech bros who invented it will have no purpose either.

'Eventually' is coming fast. From an article today:
AI-driven coding assistants have amassed nearly $1bn of funding since the start of last year, a signal that software engineering is becoming the first “killer app” for generative artificial intelligence.

Companies such as Replit, Anysphere, Magic, Augment, Supermaven and Poolside AI raised $433mn so far this year alone, bringing the total since January 2023 to $906mn, according to Dealroom.

The rush to pour money into AI coding assistants is an indication that computer programming is the first job function to be transformed by the latest wave of AI technology.

 

[veinbuster]

Word.

I thought AI was supposed to do the jobs we didn’t want to do, not the stuff we wanted to do.

Whatever, eventually AI will learn to code and then the tech bros who invented it will have no purpose either.

I wrote programs that wrote programs 40 years ago. A lot of the results are still running. Generating code was always the easy part. Giving the generator the right instructions to accomplish what you wanted was, and still is, the tricky part.

Not that different from telling an image generator to put you in the dark ages without it adding fingers, stretching your arms or giving you the plague.

 

[Wyzard]

Four amps are three too many. They all sound really great; any one of them will work for what I do musically.

You're right - your use case is radically different.

 

[László]

You're right - your use case is radically different.

True. As of today, I still haven’t managed to put anything up for sale. As I look at the amps sitting there, trying to decide what to move, I can’t help thinking about what I have invested in NOS tubes and time for each amp.

I did a fair amount of tube rolling to figure out what to use where, for each amp. I’ve probably got more invested in the tubes than what the amps are worth on Reverb!

Maybe I’ll just build an amp rack for the heads, and go with only two speaker cabs to reduce the clutter.

 

[Bogner]

True. As of today, I still haven’t managed to put anything up for sale. As I look at the amps sitting there, trying to decide what to move, I can’t help thinking about what I have invested in NOS tubes and time for each amp.

I did a fair amount of tube rolling to figure out what to use where, for each amp. I’ve probably got more invested in the tubes than what the amps are worth on Reverb!

Maybe I’ll just build an amp rack for the heads, and go with only two speaker cabs to reduce the clutter.

Just Make One Massively Tall Stack And Pile Everything On Top Of Each Other So You Save Space. You Will Only Take Up A Little Extra Space For The Ladder Needed To Adjust The Knobs And If You Fall Off The Ladder You Will Have More Room For A Flat Landing. Win/Win

 

[László]

You Will Only Take Up A Little Extra Space For The Ladder Needed To Adjust The Knobs And If You Fall Off The Ladder You Will Have More Room For A Flat Landing. Win/Win

Ah, but I havre one of those massively brilliant Little Giant 3-step aluminum ladders, with a swing-up safety bar and shelf to prevent falls, and extra-deep steps.

I could easily get to controls as high as the ceiling. The darn thing is undoubtedly safer than my staircase!

I could work that stack. Not that I will… but…yeah, it’s possible.

 

[DISTORT6]

Just Make One Massively Tall Stack And Pile Everything On Top Of Each Other So You Save Space. You Will Only Take Up A Little Extra Space For The Ladder Needed To Adjust The Knobs And If You Fall Off The Ladder You Will Have More Room For A Flat Landing. Win/Win

Ah, but I havre one of those massively brilliant Little Giant 3-step aluminum ladders, with a swing-up safety bar and shelf to prevent falls, and extra-deep steps.

I could easily get to controls as high as the ceiling. The darn thing is undoubtedly safer than my staircase!

I could work that stack. Not that I will… but…yeah, it’s possible.

Just put the heads in the middle! Cabs on bottom AND top.

 

[aamefford]

True. As of today, I still haven’t managed to put anything up for sale. As I look at the amps sitting there, trying to decide what to move, I can’t help thinking about what I have invested in NOS tubes and time for each amp.

I did a fair amount of tube rolling to figure out what to use where, for each amp. I’ve probably got more invested in the tubes than what the amps are worth on Reverb!

Maybe I’ll just build an amp rack for the heads, and go with only two speaker cabs to reduce the clutter.

I’d definitely pull the NOS tubes before selling any amps. List them separately as new or used old stock as appropriate. Or pass them on to one who would appreciate them.

I’m not a big buyer or seller, but I’ve decided CL and FB Marketplace are my avenues. Cash and carry. Reverb reaches a wider audience, but sold stuff doesn’t always stay sold. Rarely (I hope) bought stuff ends up being a scam item. I just don’t like it.

I like the amp tower better.

 

[Wyzard]

I’d definitely pull the NOS tubes before selling any amps. List them separately as new or used old stock as appropriate. Or pass them on to one who would appreciate them.

The problem (from my experience - YMMV, naturally) is that the cost of re-biasing the amp, plus the new basic-but-good tubes, often isn't a great deal less than the value of the NOS tubes you're replacing.

Learning to bias an amp would be, IMO, a worthwhile investment for most multi-amp owners; however, I've never bothered, as I regarded it as part and parcel, along with the other work I've had done by my guitar amp/pro audio techs and buddies over the decades. I've been lucky to work with top people, and I've always felt that paying for their time is the very least I could do to get such world-class support.


An example: one of my old K&M Two Rocks needed some serious surgery, after twenty years of near-full-time use and a potentially transformer-threatening mishap (my fault!).... Neil Perry of Raw State (tech, former and current, to just about every musician I've ever cared about) worked on it and left it sounding even better than when I first bought it. He designed and built pretty much all my studio gear too.

John Kelley, ex-Selmer, ex-Rocky Road, worked on all my Boogies until his passing.

Others (I'm not mentioning any more names, as I need these people!!) have helped me over the decades by bringing amps, mics and FX back from the brink. I don't begrudge a single penny spent

 

[andy474x]

The problem (from my experience - YMMV, naturally) is that the cost of re-biasing the amp, plus the new basic-but-good tubes, often isn't a great deal less than the value of the NOS tubes you're replacing.

Learning to bias an amp would be, IMO, a worthwhile investment for most multi-amp owners; however, I've never bothered, as I regarded it as part and parcel, along with the other work I've had done by my guitar amp/pro audio techs and buddies over the decades. I've been lucky to work with top people, and I've always felt that paying for their time is the very least I could do to get such world-class support.


An example: one of my old K&M Two Rocks needed some serious surgery, after twenty years of near-full-time use and a potentially transformer-threatening mishap (my fault!).... Neil Perry of Raw State (tech, former and current, to just about every musician I've ever cared about) worked on it and left it sounding even better than when I first bought it. He designed and built pretty much all my studio gear too.

John Kelley, ex-Selmer, ex-Rocky Road, worked on all my Boogies until his passing.

Others (I'm not mentioning any more names, as I need these people!!) have helped me over the decades by bringing amps, mics and FX back from the brink. I don't begrudge a single penny spent

Bias test points for user servicing - one of the major bonus points for PRS amps!

 

[Wyzard]

A definite plus - especially if you're planning on swapping out your NOS tubes prior to sale


All joking aside, my Boogies, Two Rocks, Fenders etc have been played and enjoyed for the majority of my adult life. I've only ever sold what I considered to be overlapping, lesser-sounding examples, or stuff that just didn't serve me as well. Meanwhile, the care and feeding of the ones I've kept over the last forty+ years is a flea-bite compared to what I've had in return.

Spending time with my various techs over the decades has been, in its way, just as much of a privilege as having great gear. Interactions like these, along with meeting great luthiers, and hanging with fine musicians, constitute real good fortune in a musical life

 

[László]

I’d definitely pull the NOS tubes before selling any amps. List them separately as new or used old stock as appropriate. Or pass them on to one who would appreciate them.

I’m not a big buyer or seller, but I’ve decided CL and FB Marketplace are my avenues. Cash and carry. Reverb reaches a wider audience, but sold stuff doesn’t always stay sold. Rarely (I hope) bought stuff ends up being a scam item. I just don’t like it.

I like the amp tower better.

I honestly have had good experiences with Reverb, and would use that site again to sell things.

I wouldn’t pull the NOS tubes, because I’d have to buy new tubes to replace them, and installing them has become something of a PITA. I gave away the stock tubes long ago. If I sell and take a hit, well, price of doing business. The amps have helped me make some great session fees, creative fees, and royalties.

Though there is something to be said for your advice! I’ve got about a grand in NOS tubes into each of my Mesa amps, They literally turned good amps into great amps. So, worth the dough to me.

Re: Biasing cost - it’s not an issue at all.

The DG30 is Cathode-biased. Even though it has external bias points, they’re just for checking the health of the power tubes. It never needs biasing, but that’s an amp I’d never sell, regardless.

The HXDA has external bias points, too. Setting the bias with a multimeter takes about 5 minutes, it’s simple, and it’s free. I’ve biased the amp quite a few times.

The Mesa amps have a pre-set bias, but the matched NOS Siemens tubes in the Lone Star were bought directly from Mesa, and are within their specifications.

The Fillmore’s output tubes are a matched pair that were bought to accommodate Mesa’s typical 6L6 spec.

And of course preamp tubes never need biasing anyway.

I’m just not sure what/if I want to sell. It’s a bit weird to want to sell something, anything, but not be able to figure out what that is!!

 

[jak3af3r]

And of course preamp tubes never need biasing anyway.

This is true. To answer the original post, I'm pretty firmly in the Dumble camp and those amps usually have an internal trip pot to balance the phase inverter.

 

[squirrel211]

He's got 12W, 28W and 45W models. They sound wonderful in the demos. What wattage was the prototype?

I played the 45w model. The tone controls seemed difficult when he explained them, but as soon as I started turning them it was very intuitive.

I can't tell you much other than the "huge" description, it's been YEARS. I played the proto right next to another amp (I think it was the shop's Sky King) and the proto just sounded HUUUUUGE in comparison. I think I played the proto with a Celestion creamback but I can't really remember.