11top
Cousin Eddie's cousin
There has to be enough demand due to economy of scale. However, in the custom shop (private stock), it makes sense to offer since each instrument is priced individually.
Why won't PRS offer Stainless frets?
- Thread starter Ascension
- Start date
There has to be enough demand due to economy of scale. However, in the custom shop (private stock), it makes sense to offer since each instrument is priced individually.
Yes, this! ^^
The following rant is not a specific response to the OP, because I don't care what he or she does or doesn't go shopping for.
I just want to talk about frets and guitars for a bit.
Guitarists often want the 'classic' tones. We love the tone of old Strats and '59 bursts, and so on. All those classic, iconic guitar tones were done using guitars that employed certain materials, including frets.
Every part that touches the string affects the tone, according to Paul Smith, who designs the guitars and knows what to listen for. I've been playing PRS since 1991, and the guitars have never sounded as good as they have in recent models.
Why would anyone want to mess with "never sounded so good?" I wouldn't.
Then, too, I own a 1965 SG Special with traditional frets - in fact, the frets are very low 'fretless wonder' frets Gibson used at the time - that has never been re-fretted. I know this because my brother bought the thing new and gave it to me in 1967. And both he and I played the heck out of it. Sure, there's wear on the frets, but 54 years down the road? Lots of human beings don't live as long as the frets on that damn guitar!
Part II
People want their friggin' instruments to be immortal, but seem to be far less concerned that the music they create is worthy of becoming immortal.
"It's only a hobby for me, Les. I have a day job and a family to support. I don't have time to make really good music."
"Let me introduce you to Charles Ives, an orchestral composer of international standing, whose works are still performed today, 67 years after his death. In addition to being a composer, Ives was the actuary and an exec of an insurance company, who frickin' wrote books on estate planning and tax planning. Don't tell me you can't make good music because you have a day job."
Both the super smooth feel and the lack of maintenance. You can get the feel with nickle for a short time but if your a working player it doesn't last. . 6 months and then Nickle begins to noticeably degrade.
Example would be my 2007 Royal blue Brazilian board Pau bird Custom 24 vs my 2009 Carvin Quilt purple DC 127. The PRS needs a dress and crown and has been in rotation for several years to keep fret wear down. The Carvin is my #2 gets played out regularly with stainless frets are still perfect. I have a number of guitars i have owned over 10 years and a couple 20+ this is why i am so dogmatic now on Stainless. I have a solid KOA DC 127 from 93 that I'm about to drop $600 on to have it fretted with stainless. Love the neck cant get old growth KOA easily any more and intend on keeping it until I can no longer play. If I were to put the kind of $ into say a new studio would do the same but can't justify the investment with out Stainless frets.
Now just so you guys get where I'm coming from I own 6 Carvin Kiesels one PRS guitar and the main reason is Stainless frets. I also am almost excursively playing PRS Amps but not the guitars.
docteurseb
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2018
- Messages
- 1,063
Look, it's perfectly fair. It's just not going to sway PRS one way or another.
Putting aside that Paul is specific about what he likes or not, PRS currently has no need to put SS frets on their guitars even if they wanted to.
They are fully backlogged: PS have a 1-1.5years lead time, Wood Library 2 years, and Core likely just as bad.
It was that way even pre-pandemic and it's not improving with COVID-19-related work restrictions and exploding sales.
In short they clearly have zero need to attract the SS frets market, they are plenty busy already fulfilling existing orders.
One may want to think they're missing out on potential sales, but the reality is they really aren't.
Putting aside that Paul is specific about what he likes or not, PRS currently has no need to put SS frets on their guitars even if they wanted to.
They are fully backlogged: PS have a 1-1.5years lead time, Wood Library 2 years, and Core likely just as bad.
It was that way even pre-pandemic and it's not improving with COVID-19-related work restrictions and exploding sales.
In short they clearly have zero need to attract the SS frets market, they are plenty busy already fulfilling existing orders.
One may want to think they're missing out on potential sales, but the reality is they really aren't.
slater529
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2020
- Messages
- 55
Maybe so, but I'd bet my next Social Security check that it would be far less expensive to buy the PRS of your dreams and take it to your favorite luthier for new SS frets.
Mozzi
https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy/posts
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2018
- Messages
- 4,155
Why not just buy a guitar for what it has, what it offers etc and play the hell out of it. If you really need to do more maintenance and even replace the frets, you can decide whether its worth getting it refretted or maybe just sell it and stick to buying guitars that meet the 'tick' list you clearly have - not that there is anything wrong with that. As others have said, there is 'little' chance of PRS adding Stainless Steel frets when they are so back logged with orders for guitars with their usual fret wire.
You can buy a great used PRS and pay for a SS refret for the money a 'new' core would cost, let alone the increase in cost to do SS frets - because of the increase in costs to replacing tools far more frequently - especially doing many guitars a day and the extra time it takes to get them levelled, crowned and polished goes up. Its different if you are not doing the fretwork on a 100+ guitars a day. In anycase, if you 'must' have SS frets and the guitar brand/model doesn't come with SS, you have several choices, buy a different guitar/brand with SS frets, buy the guitar anyway and replace the frets sooner or later with SS.
Personally, I am happy to buy a guitar and, if/when frets do become an issue, decide what material to refret with. No point worrying over the frets if the guitar feels, sounds, plays well. If that takes a few extra minutes to clean them regularly to ensure I get years - maybe decades of life before requiring a refret, then I'll do that to look after these beautifully crafted tools. Also not going to go out spending money on a refret for a guitar that doesn't need a refret...
You can buy a great used PRS and pay for a SS refret for the money a 'new' core would cost, let alone the increase in cost to do SS frets - because of the increase in costs to replacing tools far more frequently - especially doing many guitars a day and the extra time it takes to get them levelled, crowned and polished goes up. Its different if you are not doing the fretwork on a 100+ guitars a day. In anycase, if you 'must' have SS frets and the guitar brand/model doesn't come with SS, you have several choices, buy a different guitar/brand with SS frets, buy the guitar anyway and replace the frets sooner or later with SS.
Personally, I am happy to buy a guitar and, if/when frets do become an issue, decide what material to refret with. No point worrying over the frets if the guitar feels, sounds, plays well. If that takes a few extra minutes to clean them regularly to ensure I get years - maybe decades of life before requiring a refret, then I'll do that to look after these beautifully crafted tools. Also not going to go out spending money on a refret for a guitar that doesn't need a refret...
^^ This.
There are companies that offer stainless frets so there are certainly options. Music Man, Suhr, and now Ibanez and even Fender.
Sure, Paul says that his frets will last 10 to 20 years. But, how many recrowns and levels is that going to include during that time? Those services aren't cheap these days. For people that really play their instruments hard, that is a very big consideration when putting big bucks down on a guitar and whether to go nickel or stainless. But, I think that PRS has given up on catering to the performance crowd and is making their market the casual hobbyists with money to burn who want something that plays well and looks good (or luxury) at the same time. There is nothing wrong with that and time will tell if that is the right decision. The more bridges that PRS burns with younger players who demand these appointments in a guitar could hurt their bottom line down the road. The people with birthdates prior to 1965 aren't going to be buying guitars forever. Its shocking how PRS has become fixated on this one particular market, while sending customers elsewhere who are looking for appointments that should honestly be on ALL pro level guitars these days. Even Fender of all companies gave in. I give it a year or 2 until Gibby issues it's first LP's with stainless frets in some kind of modern deluxe type package.
Sure, Paul says that his frets will last 10 to 20 years. But, how many recrowns and levels is that going to include during that time? Those services aren't cheap these days. For people that really play their instruments hard, that is a very big consideration when putting big bucks down on a guitar and whether to go nickel or stainless. But, I think that PRS has given up on catering to the performance crowd and is making their market the casual hobbyists with money to burn who want something that plays well and looks good (or luxury) at the same time. There is nothing wrong with that and time will tell if that is the right decision. The more bridges that PRS burns with younger players who demand these appointments in a guitar could hurt their bottom line down the road. The people with birthdates prior to 1965 aren't going to be buying guitars forever. Its shocking how PRS has become fixated on this one particular market, while sending customers elsewhere who are looking for appointments that should honestly be on ALL pro level guitars these days. Even Fender of all companies gave in. I give it a year or 2 until Gibby issues it's first LP's with stainless frets in some kind of modern deluxe type package.
toothace
Zombie Thirteen, DFZ
And he's back!!! Nice to hear your voice again Drew
PRSWILL
New Member
I've got one guitar that could use a refret- a 1978 Fender Lead 2- it's been through hell and still sounds good but there's some wear on the frets. I've probably had that guitar in a few hundred gigs and played it 20,000 hours or more over the years. PRS will do anything for you for the right price. They have mastadon bird inlays from crying out loud!
Drew, it’s a shame you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to the world of studios and performance.
PRS guitars are increasingly embraced by younger performers, and have become substantially more ‘legit’ over the years in the studio world among pros. I say this as a result of personal observation.
While it’s certainly cool to have, and express, your own preferences, the rest of your rant is in your head alone.
Spot on Drew. Sadly now that Jeff is at the helm with Kiesel they are also doing the same. Building more super expensive works of art forgetting the real world working player who needs a really high quality instrument that won't break the bank and will hold up to a real world working players routine. Theses to manufacturers IMO are at the top of the game in stability and consistency but in many ways both forget the real world working players needs.
I'm curious. What part of the real world of recording and performance do you work in? Touring, studio, etc?
Les,
One thing you've always had a tendency to do is be extremely condescending when you disagree with someone. We all hang out with our own groups of people and have our own experiences. But, if you are going to disagree, please do so in a manner that doesn't come across as you being the cranky old man who knows more than anyone else.
When you're right, you're right. I am a cranky fellow! And you are a cynical one.
So let me instead put it this way: I have a lot of knowledge about what's going on in pro studios and among pro players. PRS' are indeed finding great acceptance in the real pro world.
Les,
Yeah, but back when we could actually go out to places, when was the last time you were in some hellhole bar or club seeing some weekend warriors or upcoming young band play a gig? Yeah, you know some stuff about studios and "pros". But, what about everyone else? There aren't a lot of PRS out in the wild. There never has been. I probably have seen as many Parker Flys as PRS and Flys haven't been made in a few years now. There are multiple sides to this coin. You just have your tunnel vision going on. I never said that PRS didn't have any acceptance. They do. It's just not as much as you think it is.
Ovibos
Naughty Wood Librarian
Given that they're the clear #3 USA manufacturer behind Fender and Gibson, I would say the market has "accepted" PRS.
As far as anecdotal evidence on weekend warriors and up-and-comers, I'm in a few Boss Katana groups and there's a surprising number of PRS (SE, S2, some core) pictured next to the best-selling amps of last year.
D
Deleted member 5962
Guest
I'm not getting in the argument. Your comments are interesting though, in light of what you said to Les. In fact, after calling him condescending, you pretty much labeled all of us a "casual hobbyists with money to burn." Then you asserted that PRS is "burning bridges" with those who "demand" SS frets. Not really sure how that would be a burned bridge... some might be more fickel than I am... I buy what I want and don't hold grudges against those who don't make what I want. Then you again say that PRS is "fixated on this on particular market" again, us casual player rich guys, and are sending customers elsewhere. who are more serious and demanding, I guess...
I have guitars with SS frets (2) and like both of them. But there is more than a little debate about whether or not SS frets are "better in every way to the point they should be expected on every high end instrument." If that was the case, then everyone else in the high end would already use them, instead of only a few.
I'm not grumpy, in fact, quite the opposite. I never respond negatively when people say "I prefer this over that" or "I'll only buy if it has this." That's what choice is all about. Don't get the badmouthing of the company for not making it the way you want, OR the players who aren't in your opinion "serious enough" to demand it. I think there may be just a little bit of condescending on your part as well. In fact, I know so. because.... I AIN'T RICH!
11top
Cousin Eddie's cousin
I'm not getting in the argument. Your comments are interesting though, in light of what you said to Les. In fact, after calling him condescending, you pretty much labeled all of us a "casual hobbyists with money to burn." Then you asserted that PRS is "burning bridges" with those who "demand" SS frets. Not really sure how that would be a burned bridge... some might be more fickel than I am... I buy what I want and don't hold grudges against those who don't make what I want. Then you again say that PRS is "fixated on this on particular market" again, us casual player rich guys, and are sending customers elsewhere. who are more serious and demanding, I guess...
I have guitars with SS frets (2) and like both of them. But there is more than a little debate about whether or not SS frets are "better in every way to the point they should be expected on every high end instrument." If that was the case, then everyone else in the high end would already use them, instead of only a few.
I'm not grumpy, in fact, quite the opposite. I never respond negatively when people say "I prefer this over that" or "I'll only buy if it has this." That's what choice is all about. Don't get the badmouthing of the company for not making it the way you want, OR the players who aren't in your opinion "serious enough" to demand it. I think there may be just a little bit of condescending on your part as well. In fact, I know so. because.... I AIN'T RICH!
+1 DreamTheater rules.
Last edited:
Similar threads
