Why the huge DGT price increase?

[ptgold]

I should have bought this guitar years ago!

Now that Im window shopping for a DGT I realized that the price on these has gone up by like 1K!

I remember new goldtops going for $2600-2800 or something just a few years back. Have they added something to the guitars?

Oh well...will most likely buy used now I guess

 

[Clashcityrocker]

What, you're not making 35% more at work than you did 5 years ago? Me neither!

 

[ptgold]

truth!!!

 

[gush]

I've noticed the used DGTs are higher too.

 

[Mozzi]

I don't know where you live or what time period you are looking at in terms of how the pricing has changed.

However, its not 'just' the time it takes to build a guitar from scratch that determines the cost and, over the last 5yrs or so, you would think that the time taken to build a DGT (or any Core model) would be around the same number of man hours. That alone though could affect pricing as the wages for those man hours may have risen - the cost per hour being higher now. On top of that, you have the rising cost of running the factory - higher price of electricity for example that has been used throughout the build. Then there are the employees that are in the factory that need to be paid - even if they are not directly involved with manufacturing - that salary still comes from selling the guitars. You also have all the reps that distribute the models to retailers and promotional events that need to be paid for as well as Dave Grissom too for using his name. Granted some of these costs are spread out

I don't know if materials have gone up in price but I bet CITES on Rosewood hasn't helped keep the prices of materials down and no doubt the employees who are paid to source wood need to be paid which adds to the cost. A guitar isn't just wood but all the cost of the materials and the staff to make all the PU's, Switches, Tuners, Trem etc may have risen too. No doubt there is research and development costs and supplying DG himself with prototypes and models to do his work.

Where I live, the guitars have gone up due to the exchange rate and falling £ against the $ but whether that has impacted you, I don't know. I am sure there are other costs that will have contributed to the increase in prices. I know that a lot of the costs are spread around other guitars as well - its not just DGT that has Rosewood fretboards that may have increased the material costs, as well as sourcing, shipping, curing etc all the woods that go into the manufacture of a DGT. The hours may not of changed but the 'cost per hour' including all the other costs that have to be paid for from selling guitars not directly involved in manufacturing, as well as the cost of materials could have risen enough that has a knock on to the RRP (or MAP).

 

[shinksma]

So thanks to the Way Back Machine I have recovered many of the Product and Pricing sheets for PRS from the past decade or so.

This is all MAP/Retail pricing info available directly from PRS, so presumably I will not incur the ire of PRS by sharing this analysis.

I will pick a couple of typical models, the CU22/24, and the DGT currently under discussion.

In 2019, MAP for CU22 / 24 is $3600. Birds are standard.

In 2019, MAP for DGT is $3400 + $280 for birds = $3680.

In 2014, MAP for CU22 / 24 is $2999. Birds were standard.

In 2014, MAP for DGT is $2799 + $270 for birds = $3069.

So that's a 20% increase for both models in 5 years.

I have not "enjoyed" such increases in my take home pay over that period. Inflation over that period is roughly 8%.

Since PRS keeps selling all the guitars they make, though, who am I to argue with their current pricing model?


Now, things get weird if you go back further.

In 2009, "Retail price" for CU 22/24, with moon inlays, was $4259, birds and extra $530. In 2012, a CU24 (with bird inlays standard) "retail price" was $4540. I have no idea exactly when PRS changed their retail pricing model (looks like somewhere between the 2013 prices and 2014), but obviously they didn't just drop their actual price-to-dealers by 20% to 25%.

 

[BrianC]

I say charge what the market will bear AND what's good for PRS is good for me - BUT -

I would have to REALLY give it some thought if I was to consider a NEW guitar purchase.

 

[Mozzi]

So thanks to the Way Back Machine I have recovered many of the Product and Pricing sheets for PRS from the past decade or so.

This is all MAP/Retail pricing info available directly from PRS, so presumably I will not incur the ire of PRS by sharing this analysis.

I will pick a couple of typical models, the CU22/24, and the DGT currently under discussion.

In 2019, MAP for CU22 / 24 is $3600. Birds are standard.

In 2019, MAP for DGT is $3400 + $280 for birds = $3680.

In 2014, MAP for CU22 / 24 is $2999. Birds were standard.

In 2014, MAP for DGT is $2799 + $270 for birds = $3069.

So that's a 20% increase for both models in 5 years.

I have not "enjoyed" such increases in my take home pay over that period. Inflation over that period is roughly 8%.

Since PRS keeps selling all the guitars they make, though, who am I to argue with their current pricing model?


Now, things get weird if you go back further.

In 2009, "Retail price" for CU 22/24, with moon inlays, was $4259, birds and extra $530. In 2012, a CU24 (with bird inlays standard) "retail price" was $4540. I have no idea exactly when PRS changed their retail pricing model (looks like somewhere between the 2013 prices and 2014), but obviously they didn't just drop their actual price-to-dealers by 20% to 25%.

Just because your pay and maybe the employees at PRS have risen by 8% over that time, that still doesn't account for things like increases in cost of materials which maybe harder to find - especially the high quality flamed/quilted maple which only become flamed/quilted if they grow under certain conditions. There are other materials too and I don't know when PRS switched to Gen 3 tuners/trems which may of increased the cost to make these over the previous design. I cannot comment on the costs to the parts inc the wire in a Pick-up. I don't know if CITES has had a 'BIG' impact on the cost of certain materials, all that paperwork.

Whilst the 'wage' of those who actually were involved in the manufacture of a DGT may not of gone up by 20% but there are still a LOT of employees that have to be paid from the money PRS make from the sales of their guitars as well as pay for all the amenities - electric bills and any other costs that are related to running the factory. There are staff all over the world, sourcing materials, getting them back to PRS cutting, rating and curing the woods before they can be used to create a guitar. There are 'expenses' that are not necessarily attributed to a 'single' guitar but still have to be paid from the profit of ALL PRS sales. Its not cheap to do all the PRS promotional activities, having a booth at NAMM, holding clinics with various PRS players (inc Dave Grissom) around the world and supplying guitars to their artists and people who have or will promote their guitars by just playing them in their youtube video.

I don't know how much R&D costs - not just the DGT but all models. Paul's guitar has benefited from the development of the Silver Sky. The R&D on the Silver Sky doesn't just increase the cost of that Guitar but would be spread around ALL models as 'R&D' regardless of whether its for an Artist or for their regular core guitars - the SS benefits from the R&D on tuners for example and R&D isn't just guitars but Amps too. R&D, prototyping guitars, PU's etc is covered under the running costs of the factory and recouped by sales of ALL guitars.

A relatively small increase, the 'factory' cost of manufacture inc ALL the factors I mentioned (considering those are also spread across every guitar made) does lead to a 'big' increase in the shop. You have the handling and shipping which adds to the costs, the mark up for the middle men profits and then you have the mark up on a marked up price which makes the final shop price much higher. For example, if it cost $1000k to make a guitar and the factory makes 10% on each guitar, that's $1100. the Middle man takes 20% so that means its now $1320 and now the shop adds 40% because it has to run the shop and pay staff - that makes the cost $1848. 5yrs later, the cost of the guitar is now $1200 so with the factories 10%, that makes it $1320, the middle man adds their 20% which takes it up to $1584. With the shops 40$, that makes the guitar now $2218. A $200 increase in manufacturing costs ends up with a $400 increase at the shop. - that's in this model but the principal remains that a 'small' increase at the base level has a big knock-on effect by the time it reaches the shop - and lets not forget that the Shop Owner isn't going to sell a guitar for no profit. Their costs, similar to PRS factory costs of paying staff, overhead/rates on the shop inc insurance, electricity etc will also have gone up over that 5yr period so maybe they need to increase the 'mark-up' to offset the higher running costs. Every part of the chain, whether its getting the raw materials which would be more expensive if the wage bill of the lumberjacks and saw mills have gone up, the transport and fuel bills they incur would also add to the costs - not just shipping raw materials to the factory but also shipping them around the world too. I assume they have a 'holding' warehouse where the guitars are shipped too before distributing to all the dealers - that too adds to the cost.

I am just trying to illustrate why something can go up more than just the inflation rate. Other costs, like CITES and its paperwork may add more cost that wasn't a cost at all in 2014. Sourcing the best woods and those woods increasing in price more than inflation and promotional costs, like running a booth with your artists attending will have gone up by more than inflation - all of which has to affect the cost of instruments. At least its spread across all of their products and not just the DGT. That isn't bad though because they are not adding too much of a 'premium' (if any) for being an artist guitar. Its very competitive with other PRS guitars. Some guitar companies seem to add a premium because its an artist guitar. When I bought my Washburn Acoustic, there was a 'Nuno' signature version that was around £100 more but had a lower spec electronics. It was more just because it was a Signature model.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Santana’s are cheaper than ever though....

 

[garrett]

Inflation's a b!tch.

 

[markd21]

I've noticed the used DGTs are higher too.

Awesome for me!!!!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Awesome for me!!!!

List that bad boy!

 

[jvin248]

.

Do not equate Price with Cost. The two are largely independent. Sometimes Price is even used to retain Premium Market Perception.

Remember that PRS sells a "$1,000" wholesale guitar to a retailer who puts it up to "$2,000" and maybe around the holidays has a massive "20%" off !Sale! to move the units. All the guitar companies do this markup model (some include a dealer in between too) because the factory can ship a guitar to the retailer and get their money in 45 to 60 days just like clockwork based off retailer orders from the previous January NAMM show/etc. The retailer does this because of the big margin to play with but must pay rent on retail space and sales staff to hold a guitar that might sell in a month or take two years of sitting and chatting up with guitar buyers before someone comes along and finally grabs it. Cars you buy at a dealer work on this same principle but markups are different.

If you go down the cost side, the typical manufacturer has about 70% wrapped up in employee wages and related expenses, and 15-20% in raw materials, plus various small costs like a website and maybe a little profit if they are lucky for a few years, like when your main competitor makes a goofy play attacking everyone on Youtube...

.

 

[László]

If I want a piece of gear and can afford it, I live with the price. If I want it, but can’t afford it, I take a deep breath (more like a sigh) and forget about it.

It’s awfully hard to control how other folks value their product and services.

It’s nice that PRS went to nitro on the new ones. I like nitro finishes.

 

[bodia]

Santana’s are cheaper than ever though....

Tell that to Boogie!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Tell that to Boogie!

He doesn’t like butts for some reason.

 

[bodia]

He doesn’t like butts for some reason.

Those things are "Whole Lotta Rosie" measurements!

 

[Mozzi]

If I want it, but can’t afford it, I take a deep breath (more like a sigh) and forget about it.

If I want it but can't afford it, I make as many sacrifices as I can in order to put as much money aside as possible and save, save, save.

@ptgold Saving is exactly what I have done for ALL my PRS guitars and, living in the UK, buying a 'new' PRS as I do, is a lot more costly. I will not buy on credit and only buy once I have the sufficient funds in my account to do so. My latest PRS, a Limited Edition Special 22, cleared my bank account out - something I don't like to do as I always like to keep enough to manage an emergency repair/replace for most things but the fact this model was a limited edition and the best of the colours that I would buy, I felt I had to get it sooner and hope that no emergency cropped up.

There is so much of the 'I want it now' mentality. If its something you really want, save up and maybe sell things you don't want and add that money into the pot. Go without those weekends in the Pub drinking, cut back in areas that you can and maximise your saving potential. If you can't wait or save up for a brand new core, go for a used one instead.

I cannot go to a PRS dealer one a month and come home with a new PRS. If you really want something, you can make changes and put that money aside, let it accumulate without being tempted to spend it on anything else. If its a DGT you want, then these are no more expensive than the other PRS models in its tier. They are the price they are and a 'core' PRS is as good if not better made than others Custom or Master-built guitars. That's what you are paying for and if that really is too much, too much to even consider the used market, there are other guitars - a McCarty for example that has a fixed bridge and the people here will be very helpful if you have questions about models you are not so familiar with. The McCarty was the guitar that Dave Grissom was playing and the starting point for his signature DGT model. You could find a used core McCarty for S2 money for example. If you don't find something sooner, as long as you keep saving, your savings will grow and grow bringing you closer to used DGT or even new DGT's

 

[ptgold]

@ptgold Saving is exactly what I have done for ALL my PRS guitars and, living in the UK, buying a 'new' PRS as I do, is a lot more costly. I will not buy on credit and only buy once I have the sufficient funds in my account to do so. My latest PRS, a Limited Edition Special 22, cleared my bank account out - something I don't like to do as I always like to keep enough to manage an emergency repair/replace for most things but the fact this model was a limited edition and the best of the colours that I would buy, I felt I had to get it sooner and hope that no emergency cropped up.

There is so much of the 'I want it now' mentality. If its something you really want, save up and maybe sell things you don't want and add that money into the pot. Go without those weekends in the Pub drinking, cut back in areas that you can and maximise your saving potential. If you can't wait or save up for a brand new core, go for a used one instead.

I cannot go to a PRS dealer one a month and come home with a new PRS. If you really want something, you can make changes and put that money aside, let it accumulate without being tempted to spend it on anything else. If its a DGT you want, then these are no more expensive than the other PRS models in its tier. They are the price they are and a 'core' PRS is as good if not better made than others Custom or Master-built guitars. That's what you are paying for and if that really is too much, too much to even consider the used market, there are other guitars - a McCarty for example that has a fixed bridge and the people here will be very helpful if you have questions about models you are not so familiar with. The McCarty was the guitar that Dave Grissom was playing and the starting point for his signature DGT model. You could find a used core McCarty for S2 money for example. If you don't find something sooner, as long as you keep saving, your savings will grow and grow bringing you closer to used DGT or even new DGT's[/QUOTE]


Its not about saving up for me as I have the funds to buy one now, however I do look for value and bang for your buck whenever possible.

When looking at the prices before and the prices now on the DGT Im trying to weight the value of the extra 1k and my frugal side is telling me no. HOWEVER, I admit I havent played any of the new ones. Maybe when I have one in hand Ill see that value in it and pay the premium right then and there!

Guitars I like are expensive (Gibson Custom, Boutique makers, now PRS) and for me its much smarter to pay 3k for a used LP Custom for example than 5k for a new one.

I guess Ill just have to go find a couple of new DGTs and see if the changes theyve made are worth the extra dough for me. If not, its all good. Ill just look for a used old one with moons for around 2k.


Thanks for the financial info though!

 

[László]

If I want it but can't afford it, I make as many sacrifices as I can in order to put as much money aside as possible and save, save, save.

I’m not a fan of credit card buying, either.

I don’t mind saving up for something, but by the time I’m ready to buy, there’s always something new!! Gah!!