Why the hatred?

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by Solteroblues, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. CyFan4036

    CyFan4036 New Member

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    I joined TGP a week ago and haven't gotten anything but likes and supportive replies when I talk about Prs. Maybe it's the way some talk about them that may rub some people the wrong way?
     
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  2. 21Hemispheres12

    21Hemispheres12 New Member

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    I’m 28 and I’ve been playing since I was 12 so I’m pretty sure I’m on the younger side of your average guitar player so I don’t have as strong of a connection to guitar hero’s of the “golden years”.

    That being said PRS has been around since I was born so in my younger years I viewed it the same as Gibson and Fender as I didn’t yet grasp the difference in established prestige yet.

    The main criticisms I’ve seen of PRS are:

    “Only dentists and lawyers can afford those things!” - I don’t understand this one as you can easily drop 6k on a Gibson, plus PRS actually has a quality guitar at virtually every price point unlike Gibson.

    “They’re too pretty looking for me with the fancy colors and figured woods” - I see ad after ad for “monster top” Les Paul’s with flame everywhere so apparently figured wood is desirable. Also, PRS offers a crazy amount of color and wood combinations so I find it hard to believe you can’t find a more toned down PRS.

    “They sound sterile” - Ok this one makes no sense to me as the word sterile has no meaning when it comes to sound. I think what they mean is “ it doesn’t sound like a Les Paul or a Strat”. I always tell people if you want that specific sound buy that specific guitar, a PRS offers it’s own unique sound because it’s a different guitar...

    For me personally I play and love Gibson’s, PRS and Fenders but the thing I’ve noticed consistently with PRS is they are all perfect out of the box. No messing with the nut, bridge or pickups. Everything just works beautifully and that’s why in my opinion PRS is on another level when it comes to making guitars, you can tell the workers really care about the product and take pride in crafting them.
     
  3. Asiafish

    Asiafish New Member

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    I can't speak to PRS or Gibson's current set up out of the box as I've never owned a Gibson and my only PRS was purchased used, needed and got a set up and is now perfect.

    I did recently buy a Martin acoustic (000-15M) and two Fenders (MiM Player Series Telecaster and MiA American Professional Telecaster) brand new and all three came perfectly set up right out of the box. I expected perfection in an a high-end American-made Fender and in a mid-range American-made Martin, and got exactly what I expected. The biggest surprise was the Mexican-made Fender, which was set up every bit as well as the American and shows the same build quality in every respect save the rolled edges on the neck of the American, which of course is one of the reasons they charge more for it.

    I have no doubt that Gibson and PRS also deliver the vast majority of new guitars perfectly set up and built to a very high standard. How could they not and stay in business in today's competitive marketplace?
     
  4. Coop

    Coop That one guy

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    I think some of it is that we're (people in general) so used to certain sounds in recordings. It's the same way for bass. There are lots of engineers that can seat a P or J bass really easily in a mix and less so with some of the boutique instruments. Other people just can't find the right voice on a PRS. I tried like hell. Adjusted pickups, EQ and even changed the pickups. I ended up flipping my S2 because I didn't have luck getting the sound in my head. Which turns out is a tele. I still want to find a PRS that really speaks to me. The S2 was honestly the nicest playing guitar I've owned.

    Unfortunately some of these people then disparage the brand as a whole because of situations like I outlined above. I don't because I still think there's a PRS out there for me. Probably something with single coils, but I think I'll find it one day.
     
  5. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

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    Whether they do have them 'perfectly' set up as they leave the factory or not, they are often not the last to handle the guitar before the customer receives it. The guitar could have been hanging on a wall in the shop for months, messed around with by customers coming in to play the guitar etc. Before dispatch, the guitar could have been cleaned to make it look 'brand new', untouched by human hands, set up by some tech (or the kid on work experience) before its put in the case and sent out to the customer.

    If it has a hang tag with a signature of the person who checked it before it left the factory, all you can ascertain from that is that the guitar (probably) was set-up and ready to play on the date specified. My last purchase (the PRS Special 22) was checked and dated in January 2019 (if I remember correctly without grabbing the case to check exactly when) but in conversation with the store, they received it in early April and obviously took it out and photographed it for their site. I bought it in mid June - 5 months after PRS had done their final check before casing.

    Unless you have concrete evidence that the guitar you have just bought was last touched by someone in the factory where it was made/dispatched, then you cannot conclusively blame the brand for a 'bad' set-up. If its been photographed in a store for example (as all my PRS guitars have been), then they have been taken out of the box and been handled by staff. Not saying the staff will of messed up the set-up, but proof that others have handled it. I have also seen video's where reps take a lot of guitars to a store, open up the cases and let store owners pick-up and handle the guitars to decide which ones they will take to sell.

    All I am saying is don't be so hasty to blame the brand when the last people to have their hands on it is more likely to be the store staff and maybe customers too...
     
  6. Asiafish

    Asiafish New Member

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    There really is something special about the sound of a good Tele.
     
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  7. CandidPicker

    CandidPicker Feed & Seed

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    Concur. My most recent purchase was sold as brand new, but had a faulty 3-way toggle that required repair prior to shipment. Even so, their tech messed up the wiring and the store didn't inspect the guitar prior to shipment. The guitar arrived with only the neck humbucker functioning correctly.

    Rather than send the guitar back for additional repair (the wiring problem cause unknown at the time), a local tech was selected, contacted and asked to perform the work. The original store that sold the guitar was totally on board with this, and agreed to refund the $50 repair cost with proof of emailed repair receipt. The local tech also set-up and intonated the guitar at no extra charge, because he determined the guitar needed it.

    The moral of the story is that you don't know the reason why your guitar may require either a repair, set-up, or intonation prior to receiving the guitar if it is sold as new. Rule of thumb is that any used guitar (at the buyer's expense) should receive a set-up and intonation. One should note that not all sellers provide a set-up/intonation prior to shipment, but that is certainly a plus when considering buying a used piece.

    Any new guitar is required by seller's agreement that the guitar be in good working order unless stated as such otherwise. Set-ups and intonations are in the grey area of what is considered "good working order" because string gauge, neck relief and action, and pickup height preferences are subjective.
     
  8. AZGiant

    AZGiant New Member

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    Bro I tried LPs more than once, and I agree, just not the guitar for me. Seemed too heavy, always fighting with staying in tune, and I honestly was not totally thrilled with the sound. I do own a V and a ES335, which are good guitars, but I too came across PRS (along with Charvel) and decided these are the guitars for me.
     
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  9. Mark Bois

    Mark Bois New Member

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    I recently did the same for the same reason traded 20 for 4. First was a 408 second was a S2 Singlecut Semi Hollow third was a 2004 McCarty with a Rosewood neck Fourth is a Eastman SB57/N-BK. Having a bunch of guitars in cases in your basement is doing them and you no good. But I have to disagree with you on the once you play a Core that's all you'll want to play the S2 is a fantastic guitar and I love it as much as the 2 other PRS guitars. The 408 is great but plays a little stiffer than the other 2 same with the Eastman. Down to 9 guitars now but I have all the bases covered love the high end guitars but I'm perfectly happy playing my Yamaha Revstar which is a great guitar for the money.
     
  10. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

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    Each to their own but I feel like I could do and find better. I will never own a Guitar with a scratch plate either - not that all S2's come with one but if I see an ugly duckling amongst the beautiful swans, I am not going to want to pick up and play that. I will want to trade up knowing that there is 'better' - not compromised on something, like using import parts, cheaper build process etc to sell at a lower price point. Whether those compromises translates into an actually 'worse' guitar or not, I would still believe that I could get a completely made in the US with no compromises to sell at a lower price point and so that would have to be traded in. I would be thinking that the all the parts on an S2 could be better - whether they are great or not, just because they were used to make the guitar fit the price point rather than build the best and charge what that costs...
     
    Mark Bois likes this.
  11. alantig

    alantig SSBMA

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    My wife said, "If you keep buying guitars and amplifiers and CDs and DVDs and books and magazines, there's not going be any room in here for me."

    She's on to me...
     
  12. dogrocketp

    dogrocketp I drank the PRS kool aid, and it was tasty!

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    While I know exactly where the S2’s have been designed for a lower price point. I think you should look at them from a sonic perspective. Because of the pick guard and the all mahogany construction, There is a tremendous sonic difference, which markd21 and I have embraced. We bought them to be played, and we both have core guitars that stay at home. Why? Sound differences. I’m not a cork sniffer or a true collector. I can respect collectors, and feel sorry for cork sniffers. These are tools made to the highest quality possible that happen to be beautiful. I think the beauty scares a lot of non PRS players and even some owners who keep them as case queens. They’re afraid to take them to a gig because they might get dinged up.
     
  13. CandidPicker

    CandidPicker Feed & Seed

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    Very true. Although I used to gig with my PS guitars, my feeling was that I could never quite justify owning a PS, because of the possible scenario of dinging the guitar. Eventually sold my core & PS beauty queen models for S2's.

    What to say? Nothing wrong with older women models, is there? o_O:D;)
     
  14. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

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    Whilst I can't deny that an S2 - especially those with all Mahogany and a Pick Guard (not that I will buy a Guitar with a Pick guard myself) offer something uniquely different to any 'core' guitar currently built, they are not currently something I want or need. I cannot own a multitude of guitars due primarily to space constraints and, if I can only own 5 or 6 guitars in total, then I want the 5 or 6 guitars to give me as much diversity and quality as I can have. Everyone of my core guitars offer something that only those guitars can give me. Even my 509 is my 'compromise' to owning a tele/strat because I don't like guitars that cover up their natural wood beauty with paint and plastic as well as other reasons like bolt on necks. Personal taste and preference. Besides, if I had to buy a tele and strat, that's taking up space with guitars I am not overly keen on when I could own a guitar that I can use if I really need something similar.

    I am a 'home' player now, not someone who goes out gigging and, at my age, its not something I am looking to do in the near future. Therefore I don't have that concern about taking a Core guitar out and worrying to much that circumstances beyond my control end up causing damage. At home, if I damage my guitars, its my own fault but I am not going to stop playing out of fear. Its less likely that damage may occur but I don't need to find a 'cheaper' guitar because I am too scared to take my cores out. Them getting 'dinged' isn't a concern at all and if I do get a ding, so be it. It won't stop me playing them. I don't need to copy someone elses tone exactly to cover a song and I can use any of my guitars to play the song as 'close' as I can get with the tools I have.

    Because I can't own 10 or more guitars, I am not going to explore guitars that maybe a bit different to what I already have. I am not a 'cork sniffer' or just a collector either. I have never said that PRS guitars that are not 'core' are not great and have consistently said that ALL PRS guitars are great at their respective price point - even if they have made some compromises to enable them to offer guitars at that price point. Compromising on using import Pick-ups isn't necessarily saying Import pick-ups are terrible but that PRS had to use import PU's to offer an S2 at that price. It also doesn't mean that those guitars are terrible - far from it and are amongst the best available in that respective price bracket. Anyone though who thinks that an S2 cannot be improved upon with after-market parts does make me sceptical. Don't get me wrong as they are great guitars but do you think they can't be improved with a better Bridge or PU's for example? I am sure that if PRS thought these were the 'best', they would use these on their most expensive guitars - again - not saying they are anything less than great.

    If I could only afford to have 'SE's in my collection, then I would happily own them and maybe even add an S2 or 2. In fact, if I could own more than 10 guitars, I would consider more than just PRS core guitars to add more to my tonal palette than I already have - guitars that are no nonsense rock guitars, maybe something with a Floyd Rose or other type - just to have one if I really need it for certain songs etc but as I really don't have to much space in my apartment where buying an SE or S2 would mean that I may have to sell a Core to make room for it, then I do have to think about whether or not its actually worth me doing or whether I can use what I already have instead.

    If I was 'gigging', then maybe I may feel that the risk of damage outweighs the quality of the instrument and places too much worry to play live, then maybe I would feel differently about what guitars I own. I wouldn't so much worry about the general wear and tear playing a guitar can lead too - inc any dings and scratches that I may put into a guitar - that too me is the 'battle scars' that tell the story of a guitars life - I may feel differently if a 'Core' got damaged by some drunken idiot in the crowd for example but general wear and tear is not something that worries me. I bought a PRS in part because I know how hard wearing the finish is and, like someone who looks after their brand new car who uses it every day but also will keep it clean and tidy rather than not caring about any build up of grime or caring if it gets damaged - whether by some idiot or their own carelessness. My guitars are 'tools' but like a good craftsman will look after their tools, I look after mine but still use them very regularly.

    As I said, each to their own and all I meant by my statement is that if I have the free choice to pick up and play any of my guitars, I am going straight to a core - one that looks, feels, plays and sounds the best or the one that I just wanted to play that day. If I had an 'S2' in my collection, not to say its bad, but I would probably end up picking it up only when I have to because its the 'only' guitar that does what I need at that time. I would feel, rightly or wrongly, that an S2 could be better if I replaced the Pick-ups, replaced the bridge, replaced the tuners, maybe replace the electronics and knobs. Whether that would actually make the S2 better or its a placebo effect because I spent more on it, I don't know.

    Recently, I realised I wasn't really playing my 509 so much - mostly because I have wanted to play humbucker guitars and prefer shorter scale length. My 509 had been pushed down the pecking order because I had guitars with 'proper' humbuckers and kind of pushed my 509 into the role of being my SC Stratty/tele guitar and hadn't really felt like going for a SC sound. Having got my PRS Special 22, a thread came up about comparing the 509 and Special. That got me thinking about my 509, why I bought it and its role in my collection. It was bought as a 'Superstrat' not just a strat/tele substitute and reminded me how good the humbuckers are as well as how different they are to any of my other HB loaded guitars. The reason I am telling you this is that even with just 5 Electrics, I can 'forget' what even a Core PRS can offer when other Core PRS guitars - ones with more obvious Humbuckers fulfil that role. At the moment, I do not need an S2 to fill a role in my collection either or a CE & SE. If I were to gig again, then maybe I could add one or two guitars to fulfil that 'gigging' guitar - at least if I am only playing Pubs and not on a big stage where my guitars maybe a bit safer from drunken idiots.
     
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  15. Song

    Song In Nomine Dilectio

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    Get real close to the tv kids! That primus beaver, penguin, duck thingy looks like he's whalin' away on a PRS in this low quality vid
     
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  16. Song

    Song In Nomine Dilectio

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    This must be the longest post I've ever seen! It would take me all day to type this much stuff. I hear folks get carpel tunnel from it! o_O
     
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  17. Dirty_Boogie

    Dirty_Boogie Still got the ol' tagger on it

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    Larry LaLonde - my favorite (if not most unique) PRS player. And he's not a lawyer or a doctor (let's give the dentists a break!)

    Thanks for sharing.
     
    Song likes this.
  18. alantig

    alantig SSBMA

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    That's a myth - nobody's gotten carpal tunnel from one of Mozzi's posts.
     
  19. Nick Love

    Nick Love New Member

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    I think you will see this with about non Fender/Gibson brand. I really like my PRS, but I’m also a huge fan of Ernie Ball Music Man’s and they seem to elicit the same love/hate reaction from folks.
    Honestly in my experience once you get at about the $1500 and higher category with about any brand, they are all well-built nice playing sounding guitars it’s just a matter of personal preference, although I do agree some are better built and setup than others, once you get into the higher end production guitars on up they are all pretty nice. So I just don’t get the hate at all. For example I’ve played several Prestige Ibanez’s over the years and they were not for me whatsoever, I didn’t like the neck, the Floyd Rose style bridge or the pickups, however they were still nice guitars and I can wholeheartedly see how someone else might love it so I’m not going to troll the forums badmouthing every Ibanez I see.
     
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  20. dogrocketp

    dogrocketp I drank the PRS kool aid, and it was tasty!

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    The use of the word improved is all relative. If one likes the way a guitar sounds, then there is no need for change. As Paul himself likes to say, everything affects everything. Our goal is almost always to find the guitars that speak to us for whatever reason. They can be cheap or costly, as long as they give us something. Even Dumble amplifiers do not use the most expensive parts for everything, because it’s about the sum.
     

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