Why so much trash talk on SE's?

[mmarshburn]

First, if there is another thread on this, please direct me to it.

I got to thinking this morning about all of the trash talk I've seen people do on reviews for the SE's... It's saddening really. Numerous times I've browsed and found tons of negative comments regarding many aspects, but generally saying stupid things like "it's crap."

My first question lies in the realm of "did you expect a $3,000 guitar for $750?" I mean, seriously... The reason I've heard it took so long for Paul to get the SE line going is because he didn't want to skimp on quality. But, let's be realistic. You can't produce the same quality of guitar at the SE level as you can for the core or artist level.

Now, my thoughts are that the SE line are great guitars. Especially because of price. I'm very pleased with both the quality I feel in them and the sound they produce. The fact is: I don't feel I'm expecting too much in my guitars. I realize that I'm not going to get a similar sound out of my Tremonti SE until I drop Tremonti pickups in it.

I guess my largest confusion is why? Why do some seem to hate them so much? Are they just ignorant?

 

[andy474x]

Some of those people are PRS haters, some are cork sniffers, some are both. Haters gonna hate.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion when it comes to neck shape, pickups, finishes. Then there are more subjective measures of quality, like reliability, fret buzz, dead spots, intonation. For those who don't like SE's because of the former, to each his own. For those who judge by the latter, I would really like to know what they've found that's better.

 

[Chuckblues]

Hi Guys

I have three SE Electrics Bernie Marsden ,Santana, Soapbar II . The Bernie is an incredible guitar ! Granted I did change the pups for Bare Knuckle Mules because that was the sound I was going after . I am 64 years old and have played a lot of guitars . These stack up very well with any that I've played . Just my two cents !

 

[rugerpc]

Trash talk about SEs is nothing new. People have preferences, prejudices and perceptions. They rarely all line up.

What I see mostly is people who start with a preconceived notion and then fail to make an objective evaluation.

It isn't limited to SEs. The S2 line was roundly and loudly b!tch slapped by some members on this forum long before anyone even held one or smelled one, much played one. The people poo pooing the line the most had never seen one in person or touched one or played one. What does that tell you?

It happened with the reintroduction of the CE.

It wlll happen again.

I have a simple test for how much weight I give anyone's opinion on just about anything. Did the 'reviewer' actually play the item in question? Objectively?

For every real review you can find, there are a hundred guys who will tell you something stinks based solely on something they have read or a fuzzy pic they saw.

Ignore the haters.

 

[cjmwrx]

Because some people are gear snobs. Admittedly, I am one of those.

 

[JustRob]

Why?

Insecurity. If they admit there fine guitars for less than one third the cost, or less, of what they have they feel foolish.

Most people aren't self confident enough to say "because I wanted to" when someone asks why you paid "so much" for a guitar. They feel the need to justify.

That's how I see a lot of it.

 

[rugerpc]

There also seems to be a startling lack of understanding of the concept of "price point".

 

[mmarshburn]

Trash talk about SEs is nothing new. People have preferences, prejudices and perceptions. They rarely all line up.

What I see mostly is people who start with a preconceived notion and then fail to make an objective evaluation.

It isn't limited to SEs. The S2 line was roundly and loudly b!tch slapped by some members on this forum long before anyone even held one or smelled one, much played one. The people poo pooing the line the most had never seen one in person or touched one or played one. What does that tell you?

It happened with the reintroduction of the CE.

It wlll happen again.

I have a simple test for how much weight I give anyone's opinion on just about anything. Did the 'reviewer' actually play the item in question? Objectively?

For every real review you can find, there are a hundred guys who will tell you something stinks based solely on something they have read or a fuzzy pic they saw.

Ignore the haters.

Can I get an Amen?!

I honestly wonder how many of the haters have actually played them, as well. And not like a quick hook up to some cheap amp laying out on GC's floor, but legitimately hooked it up to what they would really play and try to squeeze the sound out...

 

[mmarshburn]

Why?

Insecurity. If they admit there fine guitars for less than one third the cost, or less, of what they have they feel foolish.

Most people aren't self confident enough to say "because I wanted to" when someone asks why you paid "so much" for a guitar. They feel the need to justify.

That's how I see a lot of it.

I also have a hobby of raising and breeding Labraor Retrievers. Had someone ask why I would spend "so much" ($1200) and drive so far away for a puppy when there were already so many black labs around here. I just flatly said because the dogs around here aren't what I want.

You're right, if people would just nut up as to why they want a $5,000 10top and say "because I wanted it," they would probably be a bit more honest with the questions.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I don't know, I love my SEs.

 

[Huggy Love]

I'm not a fan of SE series for my own usage, I'm strictly a core PRS person, but even I admit that in that price range *ALL* the other mfgs come up a far distant second.
I'f I was on a budget and was steadily gigging, I'd have a few to work the local club circuit, but hey $400-$750 for kickass club "beater"? That'll work.

On top of all that, yea I'm a core snob I'll admit, but when it all boils down to it, a good player can make just about any decent guitar sing. Check out this guy on an SE.

 

[alexanderraimo]

I think image has a lot to do with it too. Going off of what others said, compared to core model PRS's, they're a lot cheaper, and only have an SE logo on the headstock and not the Paul Reed Smith signature, so I've seen people say the SEs aren't real PRS's.

 

[rugerpc]

I think image has a lot to do with it too. Going off of what others said, compared to core model PRS's, they're a lot cheaper, and only have an SE logo on the headstock and not the Paul Reed Smith signature, so I've seen people say the SEs aren't real PRS's.

When people say things like that to me, I lament the lack of critical thinking in the general population.

That isn't directed at Whisper, above, but at the person saying it to him...

 

[CoreyT]

I would put up any of my SEs against a G or F any day.
And I would put my S2 up against my 408 any day too.

Right now my new S2 is my favorite guitar to play, and it cost 1/2 of why my 408 costs me.
Sure the 408 has better pickups, no scarf joint, etc.
Hell, I do not even know what a scarf joint is
But it makes no difference to me on my S2, it plays and sounds nice too me.

 

[AP515]

This guy doesn't seem to mind rockin one onstage...

 

[shinksma]

heh, I just had a co-worker ask about my opinion of "those Korean made PRSes". He is a bass player, and happened to see one going for something like $250 (probably at the local GC).

I told him that if you put one in my hands, blindfolded, I probably wouldn't be able to tell right away whether it was Core or SE. I also mentioned that half of my PRSi are SE models - they are great guitars, and the little things that are considered shortcomings, like pickups, can be rectified and customized very easily - and frankly, I gotta think there is a good chance the pickups in the SEs are probably just as good as the pickups found in the Fs&Gs from the 1970s - just voiced a bit different maybe. (I don't know, this is just supposition - I have a 1979 LP Deluxe [with the mini-buckers] but no other experience with 1970s Fs or Gs).

 

[mmarshburn]

I'm not a fan of SE series for my own usage, I'm strictly a core PRS person, but even I admit that in that price range *ALL* the other mfgs come up a far distant second.
I'f I was on a budget and was steadily gigging, I'd have a few to work the local club circuit, but hey $400-$750 for kickass club "beater"? That'll work.

On top of all that, yea I'm a core snob I'll admit, but when it all boils down to it, a good player can make just about any decent guitar sing. Check out this guy on an SE.

Very nice. Hey, if people want cores, then get them. Heck, if I had the money, I'd have one too!

 

[FantasyMetal]

I think a few separate things are being argued by the haters with various degrees of accuracy and/or truth.

Are SE's a great value for their price point? Absolutely. I would stack an SE up against anything any other guitar maker is selling at the comparable price points.

Are they as good (are they as resonant, do they sustain as long, are they built to as exacting of specifications) as a Core PRS? Objectively no. They have parts that are made of different materials than Core parts which were specifically engineered to enhance the tonality of the core guitars.

Are SE's a REAL PRS? Depends on your definition. If Made in Maryland is your definition, then no. If made to the standards and specifications of PRS, then yes.

Are you a better player if you own a Core PRS? No.

Are you a worse player if you own an SE? No.

Before anyone accuses me of hating PRS SE guitars, I have a Zach Myers SE that is a great guitar. However, it is not nearly of the quality of my S2 or Core guitars. It's less resonant, sustains less, and doesn't seem to want to stay in tune. Hell, the first time I took off the strings, the bushing for one of the tuners fell out. Am I complaining about the SE, absolutely not. I have modded it to the point that I like it (which is what matters) about as well as my USA PRS guitars.

 

[Mixstar]

I love 'em (SE's) they blow the opposition non US models away. I have two SE's and they are fantastic as far as I'm concerned and I have US made Gibsons and Fenders as well.

 

[mmarshburn]

I think a few separate things are being argued by the haters with various degrees of accuracy and/or truth.

Are SE's a great value for their price point? Absolutely. I would stack an SE up against anything any other guitar maker is selling at the comparable price points.

Are they as good (are they as resonant, do they sustain as long, are they built to as exacting of specifications) as a Core PRS? Objectively no. They have parts that are made of different materials than Core parts which were specifically engineered to enhance the tonality of the core guitars.

Are SE's a REAL PRS? Depends on your definition. If Made in Maryland is your definition, then no. If made to the standards and specifications of PRS, then yes.

Are you a better player if you own a Core PRS? No.

Are you a worse player if you own an SE? No.

Before anyone accuses me of hating PRS SE guitars, I have a Zach Myers SE that is a great guitar. However, it is not nearly of the quality of my S2 or Core guitars. It's less resonant, sustains less, and doesn't seem to want to stay in tune. Hell, the first time I took off the strings, the bushing for one of the tuners fell out. Am I complaining about the SE, absolutely not. I have modded it to the point that I like it (which is what matters) about as well as my USA PRS guitars.

You hit exactly on my point and something that ruger did too: comparability by price/quality range. People seem to have no idea that it wasn't designed to compete with the quality of a core model. It was designed to compete with other brands that produce guitars in that specific range, and does so with great representation for PRS.