Whats the production cost of a guitar for PRS?

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davidrf

B# is a thing
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Watching the latest Rick Beato's video where he plays a fantastic McCarty 594 HB II I got a bit curious: what would be the PRS manufacturing cost for a guitar like that? A friend of mine says it should be around 5-600$ but I think it is around 1000$. Does anyone know?

Also, who makes tuning keys, bridges and that kind of hardware for PRS? I know they design all of their stuff, but who actually builds stuff?

Thanks a lot!
 
Interesting question, but I suspect that the only people who will know will be the PRS accountants. Don't forget that the cost of the guitar not only covers the materials used, but also has to cover the running costs of the entire operation; all the salaries, the buildings' running costs, the equipment, the marketing, the R&D. I bet that all adds up to quite a lot of money for a medium sized operation making a premium product.
 
One thing I know for sure (because I have a friend who owns a music store) is that, at least where I live, if a store sells a guitar for 1000$, they paid the guitar about 600$, so 400$ (about 40% of the total price) is the margin of profit. If you insert in the equation the distributor you have to take out another chunk from the 600$ the store paid. So it is safe to assume the production cost for that guitar shouldn't be more than 2-300$ I guess.

But maybe in high end instruments where a lot of work and finer materials are involved, the margin is a bit smaller.
 
Don't forget that the cost of the guitar not only covers the materials used, but also has to cover the running costs of the entire operation; all the salaries, the buildings' running costs, the equipment, the marketing, the R&D. I bet that all adds up to quite a lot of money for a medium sized operation making a premium product.

This
 
I suppose you could perform some crude sums based on sale price in the store, minus store profits, minus distributor profits, minus PRS's profits etc to get to a figure. I don't know what those margins will be though, or how (if) they change for different price brackets. I'm sure though that material costs, labor costs and overheads costs for a core PRS means that they aren't going to be cheap to produce.
.... And they aren't cheap. I could only afford one, and second hand at that. And yet, I don't feel there is big profit margins involved. The price seems a fair representation of the craftsmanship and effort required, plus a bit on top to make sure everyone involved stays in business
 
Don't forget that the cost of the guitar not only covers the materials used, but also has to cover the running costs of the entire operation; all the salaries, the buildings' running costs, the equipment, the marketing, the R&D.

This is more than many people realize. My guess would be they are working on a 10-15% profit margin.
 
What I do know is that Jack Higginbotham is on record stating that “time and motion” consultants have encouraged PRS to save money by reducing the number of days they take to produce a neck and the company have flatly refused to reduce this timescale for a drop in product quality and stability!
 
There are various processes out there designed to increase efficiency of a manufacturing process - LEAN, 6 sigma etc. These aren't about cutting corners but structuring the process to be more efficient - thereby maximizing the profit margin.
I do however fully support maintaining quality control over profit margin!
 
I'm a little reluctant to talk about this, but I know, (or more accurately, I knew), exactly what the cost is for core and SE models. Back in about 2014 I happened to copy and paste the yearly catalog from the PRS website to an Excel page. What I got was all the hidden columns in the catalog which were more than the single MSRP number at the right hand side. It had the Retailer's cost, the MAP, and the MSRP. And that is for every model. They aren't all the same. It even had the price break for bulk buys of SE's (and so I also know how many SE's you need to buy to get the discount). From there it isn't hard to calculate the margins.
If you assume that PRS makes about what they allow others to make on their guitars, you get to the actual cost to PRS.
They have since changed the catalog so it won't do that anymore.

I could have gone into a retail store knowing exactly what the retailer paid for the guitar and argued the price knowing what he was going to make. I didn't, and I won't be revealing it here. What I will say is that the markups are typical of what all competitive companies need to have to make it in today's economic environment. I can also say that the margins are less than what my company makes in our sector of the electronics industry, so the competition is stiffer in the instrument business than in non-consumer electronics.

So, if someone thinks that PRS is making boatloads of money, think again. They are not going broke either. They are making about the normal rate that businesses make. They are being competitive. At least they were in 2014.
 
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Like many products, the premium you pay includes the Brand Logo. You can find people who have sanded off Squier and put down a Fender logo on their headstock. Or they buy a PRS Core instead of S2 or SE or Harley Benton. Apple, Starbucks, Nike, Ford, etc etc bank on that Brand Goodwill tipping buyer's hands toward a premium purchase.

For guitars, the brands spend inordinate amounts of cash on Marketing and Artist Relations. In the beginning, Paul stalked Santana for years in concert parking lots and back stages where he could get in -- all so very problematic if anyone tried that in today's atmosphere, to get the PRS brand on stage and recognized. What hoops did he go through to get Mayer on board? In the 70s Gibson gave free guitars to KISS but after the guitar smashing stage shows five nights a week every week, shipping in pallets of free guitars, Gibson told them no more and Ibanez was on KISS' stage. That all costs time and attention and rolls into the price.

Retailer and distributor are key buyer costs. Generally cut the retail price in half and that is what the factory gets paid -- the reason the factories agree to that system is the retailers pay them in 45/60/90 days guaranteed where the retailer may sit on that guitar with their money tied up for months. Factories fear sitting on inventory since they can't get cash to order new materials in matching 45/60/90 days and pay workers every two weeks or the workers don't show up again.

In general, if PRS is not making 10% on their business they should do the famous financial decision "to close up and give the cash back to investors so they can reallocated in the general stock market" for better returns, which is assuming long term stock market returns hover around 10%. However, industrial businesses will float a lot around that figure sometimes a little better and sometimes a lot worse but with hope 'the next thing' will put them back over that 10% hurdle.

The IRS statistical database is sometimes instructive to see where costs get accumulated for similar businesses. With a little spread sheet kung fu you can convert the closest manufacturing sector sets of numbers to percentages and then plug in your favorite guitar model (less retailer/distributor cut) and likely get a good approximation of where the money gets spent. Fun to play with as your curiosity takes you there:
https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-historical-table-14a


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From my time building pedals if your not making ( gross margin ) 40% or more you are not covering your costs and will not be able to sustain your business long term.
From your take you have to buy the parts + labor and future R+D costs + expenses then hopefully after all that have something left ( profit )
Here was my breakdown
$75 -Parts + CNC Etc
$50 Labor
+40 % = $175 = Dealer Cost
Dealer Markup $40 = MSRP of $250.00 ( IE ,I had zero profit at these prices in small batches )

Manufacturing is a tough business and it often surprises me how reasonable things can be made at scale.
 
A guitars cost is more than just the sum of its individual parts. Everyone here can see where 'cuts' can be made to increase their profit margin or drop the price down for consumers - we see these areas in guitars like the CE, S2 and even in the SE range. Things that PRS already employ as you move down the ranges - things like getting two tops for a CE out of the same quantity of maple they use for a Core. I don't know if PRS also have to pay more for their Maple because you don't see that amount of flame on other big brands. Having the money ready to pay up front also helps to be first in line where other companies may pay for it once those instruments are sold. PRS core guitars aren't taking 'short cuts' - like making the neck out of 3 (or more) planks but carving out a lot of wood to shape. The wings maybe glued on but aren't part of the structural integrity as the hole for the tuner isn't in that wing. Making a Hollowbody starts off with the same 'slab' of mahogany a Core guitar uses - they just cut out the middle to leave just the sides. To me, PRS don't appear to take 'short-cuts' that may, or may not have any impact on sound, its all about making the 'perfect' instrument and not compromising for a cheaper price pount.

There are also many costs to account for beyond just the materials and wages of those involved with the making of a guitar. You have costs to run a factory, pay ALL the staff whether they are actually involved in the production or doing other jobs like PR, Sales, Artist Relations, even the cleaners. They also have to pay distributors and shipping costs to send their guitars around the world. I don't know how CITES work but I expect some costs are involved here too. Talking of CITES, there are costs involved in having staff locating, purchasing and shipping wood into PRS. Advertising and that includes the costs of booth's at NAMM for example and the Artists that may be at these shows, make guitars for reviewers (even if they don't keep them), for artists as well as all the Prototypes and Research and Development costs - not just of PRS guitars but also for the artists who have 'signature' models. I know PRS make guitars that are given away to some one - regardless of whether its a PR stunt or whether its a guitar for someone who deserves it for one reason or another - a Staff build for length of service, a guitar to a retailer or distributor as a thank-you for something. Cost for hosting or sponsoring an event - like She Rocks or young guitarist and giving a guitar away as a prize. I could go on and on but at the end of the day, there are a LOT of costs that still have to be accounted for from the money coming in from the sales of their products.

It terms of price point, I do think PRS Guitars are 'expensive' but you also have to compare other guitar's in that price range too. If we look at the 'bottom' end, the SE's, do they compete well with the other guitars you could buy. I believe the most expensive is the Pauls Guitar in the US at $1k but don't know what the cheapest SE is. Comparing these with the other guitars under $1k, do they compete or are they over-priced for what you can buy instead? If the answer is 'yes' then buy something else. The prices also come down to what a person is willing to pay. If you can find a better guitar than the SE Pauls for that money, buy that and retailers will have to drop their prices, take more of a hit on their profit margin.

When I look at the cores I have, all (apart from my HBii which cost considerably more) where ~£3300. A Gibson HP was around that price but the Custom Shop, re-issues etc are all over £5k. Not necessarily better built - same with the Fender Masterbuilt - some of which looked like they had been trashed (I think they call it a relic). The Music Man Majesty Monarchy 6 string is £3.5k, and the back looks ugly with half of it covered in Plastic back plates - not recessed either. I could name others but, in my opinion, compared to what I could buy for the Money, very few if any guitars can match a PRS in quality, aesthetic beauty, playability, tone etc Some may match it in some areas but not in all - hence I bought the instruments I have.

The point is, the cost is what it is - whoever is making 'some' profit off the sales. retailers have a shop and staff team to run so its not all 'profit' to them as some of that is going to overheads and purchasing new stock to replace the sold stock. If you can't afford to pay the price, pay what you feel is the right price for you and your budget, then, like everyone else does, you will either have to look at the used market or find something else in your price range. If nothing in your price range compares to a Core PRS, then that also tells you why these cost more - if not, then buy the guitar that's as good or better in your mind.
 
TBH, other guitar forums have posed this question regards their products (including PRS pricing) and the answer has been the same...it's really not an appropriate question because it puts the onus on the business to delineate its financial records for its material, production and operational costs.

Proprietary business information is kept confidential simply because it allows businesses to remain competitive in an ever-increasing cost-cutting market. As technology advances, so will innovation and demand for their businesses' product.

If the OP were really interested in learning what drives the price of guitar production, his local community college has courses in business economics that can help him with this topic. While he may not receive the actual answer regards PRS, he will gain a greater understanding of what makes business economics work. Either that, or if the OP has time to visit his local library, there may be books regards this subject free of charge the OP can read about. Either way, the OP will learn something new, and can choose to share his new-found knowledge with us once its been revealed to him in his research.

Truthfully, asking how much it takes to produce a PRS guitar is like asking one of us how much money we make each year. That's a bit of a tacky question, and really, done so in poor taste.
 
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...Truthfully, asking how much it takes to produce a PRS guitar is like asking one of us how much money we make each year. That's a bit of a tacky question, and really, done so in poor taste...

Though the comments in the thread have been respectful...

I agree strongly with both of these gentlemen, but still think the thread should be locked.

I have a hugely curious side as well, and can see this as a study in economics, but I can't reduce the feeling I get from holding my PRS to numbers. If I had to pick from "solidly constructed, outstanding musical instrument" OR "works of art", I'd tend towards the later. For that reason, I don't see this as an economic question, but as a valuation of an artist's time. IMHO, you can put numbers on the Ford production line, but not on Trampas' skills with dyes. One is an efficiency model, the other is a labor of talent, time, and love. You just can't price that out, and IMO it's rude to try to do it in PRSh's living room (this forum).
 
Ultimately this is people's earnings that are being discussed and I for one find it dis-respectful.
 
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