What is the Most Durable Fadeproof Color?

[László]

Hopefully none of your guitars have gold hardware. Once upon a time I bought a brand new Les Paul Custom style guitar with gold hardware. Never played it and kept it in the case for safe keeping. About a year later I opened the case and the gold hardware was rusted. I've never stored ANY guitar in a case ever since then.

Wow! I’ve never heard of that happening! Your experience with your LP has to be pretty unusual.

An interesting thing is that pure gold doesn’t oxidize. It’s inert enough to stay shiny and perfect for 3500 years when they dig up Egyptian tombs and 2000 year old Roman coin caches; same is true when they find gold coins in ancient shipwrecks once the gunk from the seabed is removed, the gold is still shiny. So gold is a pretty stable material.

But whatever gold is plated onto can oxidize, and gold alloys can also oxidize, though it isn’t the gold portion doing it, it’s the base metal.

I’ve got 6 years with my Tonare Grand that has gold plated tuning machines; had around a decade with my Artist II with gold hardware, and certainly years with other guitars that had gold hardware. All were cased when not in use, no issues, no oxidation, nothing at all unusual.

My SG Special has been cased when not in use since 1965. The neck stopped needing periodic adjustments around 1972, and the action is still perfect after 47 years!

If I had to venture a guess, I’d suspect a problem with the plating on that LP, not so much the case, but who knows?

 

[Jazzedout]

My 513 has gold Dunlop straplocks, and the bottom one has faded from being in the case. The one at the upper cutaway still looks shiny new. Never understood why...

 

[HANGAR18]

Wow! I’ve never heard of that happening! Your experience with your LP has to be pretty unusual.

An interesting thing is that pure gold doesn’t oxidize. It’s inert enough to stay shiny and perfect for 3500 years when they dig up Egyptian tombs and 2000 year old Roman coin caches; same is true when they find gold coins in ancient shipwrecks once the gunk from the seabed is removed, the gold is still shiny. So gold is a pretty stable material.

But whatever gold is plated onto can oxidize, and gold alloys can also oxidize, though it isn’t the gold portion doing it, it’s the base metal.

I’ve got 6 years with my Tonare Grand that has gold plated tuning machines; had around a decade with my Artist II with gold hardware, and certainly years with other guitars that had gold hardware. All were cased when not in use, no issues, no oxidation, nothing at all unusual.

My SG Special has been cased when not in use since 1965. The neck stopped needing periodic adjustments around 1972, and the action is still perfect after 47 years!

If I had to venture a guess, I’d suspect a problem with the plating on that LP, not so much the case, but who knows?

Well, ever since that incident, and sharing that story elsewhere, I've heard from a flood of individuals who have said something to the effect of "Well heck yeah, everybody knows you've got to take extra care with gold hardware" and "chrome hardware is a lot more forgiving". So, ever since then (in addition to not keeping guitars in cases) I have avoided gold hardware (and @$$holes who go to work sick) like the plague. My current guitar collection includes nickel plated pickups (50/08's & 58/15LT's) which tarnish VERY easily, so I routinely go down the guitar lineup on the wall and run a soft cloth over those pickups to buff off the tarnish (until such time as they no longer respond to my buffing attempts).

This is the exact guitar I was referring to...
a Heritage H-157 I bought brand new and then foolishly let it get away from me.

 

[Mozzi]

I wasn't aware that Gold Hardware itself was much more prone to corrode with Sweat if left in a closed case if you haven't cleaned/dried them from a sweaty gig. I avoid gold hardware if possible because it doesn't stay gold. It seems the gold covering is an incredibly thin layer on top that wears through very quickly with use.

It maybe different on very high end guitars but the only guitar I owned with 'gold' hardware was an Epiphone Les Paul Custom - the black with Gold hardware but the tuner keys, the bulk of the top of the PU covers and even the saddles wore off the gold and looked more like a matte grey metal. It put me off buying Gold hardware because it stopped looking great as a new guitar does with Gold hardware. My Epi lived in a hard case too but I guess it wasn't left for months in a case after a sweaty gig

 

[László]

Well, ever since that incident, and sharing that story elsewhere, I've heard from a flood of individuals who have said something to the effect of "Well heck yeah, everybody knows you've got to take extra care with gold hardware" and "chrome hardware is a lot more forgiving". So, ever since then (in addition to not keeping guitars in cases) I have avoided gold hardware (and @$$holes who go to work sick) like the plague. My current guitar collection includes nickel plated pickups (50/08's & 58/15LT's) which tarnish VERY easily, so I routinely go down the guitar lineup on the wall and run a soft cloth over those pickups to buff off the tarnish (until such time as they no longer respond to my buffing attempts).

This is the exact guitar I was referring to...
a Heritage H-157 I bought brand new and then foolishly let it get away from me.

Beautiful guitar, though.

I’ve never worn through gold plating on a guitar, and have no tarnish on the nickel hardware on my current set, at 4, 5, 3, and 2 years. But it was the same with my PRSes going back to 1991.

I have no explanation for this! I do have dry skin, so maybe?

There’s plenty of tarnish on the ‘65 SG Special, however, because I didn’t know how to take care of a guitar as a kid. The only reason I cased the thing was that I had nowhere else to put it in my early days! No one made guitar hangers back then, except for what you’d see in stores, and stands were flimsy things made with nitro-killing rubber tubing.

 

[FunkyFreeman]

The fading is quite substantial indeed. Thanks for the photos! Does it happen with other premium brands though, ie is it a inherent ‘guitar’ thingy.

I know for a fact the 59 LP’s faded in time. There’s a video by Anderson’s where Bernie Marsden removes the toggle switch ring from his famous LP “The Beast” and it was red underneath it while the entire guitar was a yellow lemon.

Hmmm, I have no idea about other brands though. All I have seen is that many blue colored PRS guitars faded fast and we can note the change in color within few years.

Yes, old LPs do fade too, but they took many decades for noticeable transformation, not so short as some blue PRS. The obvious evidence is, look at the PS CU24 30th anniversary in my reply. That guitar was made in 2015-2016 but the fading occurred so fast that the owner sent it back to PTC to refinish it - refinishing a sub $10000 guitar after a few years of purchase...

 

[László]

Hmmm, I have no idea about other brands though. All I have seen is that many blue colored PRS guitars faded fast and we can note the change in color within few years.

Yes, old LPs do fade too, but they took many decades for noticeable transformation, not so short as some blue PRS. The obvious evidence is, look at the PS CU24 30th anniversary in my reply. That guitar was made in 2015-2016 but the fading occurred so fast that the owner sent it back to PTC to refinish it - refinishing a sub $10000 guitar after a few years of purchase...

That’s the way it goes if they see enough light. There are plenty that don’t fade because they’re not exposed to strong light.

So big deal.

 

[Kiwi]

Suggestion: If you hate having to lug around the very heavy PRS cases, but you know the guitars are better off away from light and dust:

Buy decent black nylon gig bags for the guitars and keep 'em handy, zipped up tight. Unzip in seconds. Store the case someplace else.

Examples:

- 2009 McCarty lives in a simple gig bag around the studio. Its massive hard shell case lives in the back of a closet.

- PRS MEQ lives in a plush gig bag around the studio. Its insanely intricate and beautiful and delicate paisley fabric hard shell case lives wrapped in two giant plastic bags to keep it pristine, in the back of a closet.

For the cost of two gig bags, you've got a workable solution.

--K--

 

[Mozzi]

The difference between the old Les Paul Cherry Burst fading to just amber or even darkening to a tobacco burst is different to the Blue Guitars of PRS fading faster when kept out of cases. Blue may well be a colour that breaks down faster - especially these transparent Blues (compared to an opaque solid Blue for example) and why these faded quicker. Gibson in recent years have had some 'Blue bursts' and maybe we will see if those fade as quickly or not - may have to join a Gibson forum and see if owners are complaining of fade...

As for paying $10k for a Northern Lights Private Stock and being disappointed a few years later that it has faded so much and now no longer looks as great as it did hanging on the wall, I see this as more of a communication issue. 1st off, maybe not being advised or given instruction on maintaining the vibrancy. Then the lack of information before hand so the customer can make an educated decision on what colour to order in the first place. If you are someone who knows the risks and can consider how they intend to keep the guitar (cased for example), then they may opt for a different colour or be happy that their guitar will be stored in a low/no fade risk place.

Its one of those things - people see something they like the look of and buy without considering any consequences but in fairness, they also should be made aware of those at the time of order. If its mostly cased, then there is little risk although if used regularly, it will still fade over time. Organic compounds by their very nature break down over time and UV does accelerate that.

I don't know exactly what PRS's stance on this and if it changes depending on whether you were the original/first owner or bought used. Its not unheard of for PRS to refinish a guitar that has faded but a call to PTC if you are affected would tell you. If its a Special finish reserved for Artist or Private Stock, maybe that makes a difference - especially if you are the original owner but there are some blues used for cores as well as for S2/Bolt on ranges. Not sure if some of those blues are more resistant to UV breakdown or not and some are 'faded' finishes anyway. Maybe combinations of stains may also affect the rate - some combinations fade faster than other combinations and Northern Lights cause the Blue to breakdown faster than Blue on its own would. I am sure that PRS would be aware of the number of guitars affected - at least the number of those who contact them about this which you would think PRS would look into improving. I cannot speak for them, whether its a batch issue, whether or not they are looking at alternatives with better UV resilience etc.

In general, many things fade over time if left in the sun. If you were to buy a Ferrari for example and leave that outside, it too will fade. The big issue though is the rate it fades but if you are concerned, unless you know PRS's stance on it, whether or not they will refinish and/or charge, its common sense to keep them protected from that risk...

 

[markd21]

I have to say the most indestructible finish - it can avoid fading AND people wanting to run off with it - is the old "Pee Test Gold" that my EG-3 wears with pride!!! It is a truly hideous color in person, and seems to cause most people to utter the sound "Bleck" when they see it!!!! (lol)

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I have to say the most indestructible finish - it can avoid fading AND people wanting to run off with it - is the old "Pee Test Gold" that my EG-3 wears with pride!!! It is a truly hideous color in person, and seems to cause most people to utter the sound "Bleck" when they see it!!!! (lol)

Whatever, I love that guitar.

 

[HANGAR18]

Suggestion: If you hate having to lug around the very heavy PRS cases, but you know the guitars are better off away from light and dust:

Buy decent black nylon gig bags for the guitars and keep 'em handy, zipped up tight. Unzip in seconds. Store the case someplace else.

Examples:

- 2009 McCarty lives in a simple gig bag around the studio. Its massive hard shell case lives in the back of a closet.

- PRS MEQ lives in a plush gig bag around the studio. Its insanely intricate and beautiful and delicate paisley fabric hard shell case lives wrapped in two giant plastic bags to keep it pristine, in the back of a closet.

For the cost of two gig bags, you've got a workable solution.

--K--

Gig bag for sure! Ever since I heard someone around here tell the story of PRSh literally throwing his PRS guitar (enclosed in a gig bag) into the back of his car like he had not a care in the world, I bought a high quality gig bag and that is all I will now use to take one of my PRS guitars anywhere.

 

[markd21]

Gig bag for sure! Ever since I heard someone around here tell the story of PRSh literally throwing his PRS guitar (enclosed in a gig bag) into the back of his car like he had not a care in the world, I bought a high quality gig bag and that is all I will now use to take one of my PRS guitars anywhere.

Oh, for sure. I store mine the case, but use an S2 gig bag for taking my guitars to gigs and such. I toss my guitars into the car, too....the gig bag works great!! I don't even knock them outta tune!!

 

[shimmilou]

....In general, many things fade over time if left in the sun....

Definitely. With the exception of photosynthesis, the sun will destroy everything that is exposed to it.

 

[László]

Yes, old LPs do fade too, but they took many decades for noticeable transformation, not so short as some blue PRS.

Of course. There were no blue stained Les Pauls back in the day. You could buy a gold top, and later a sunburst, a solid color black one, and until the late 60s when the guitar was reintroduced, that was about it.

So any comparison is 100% speculation.

Blue and other candy colored LPs came out only very recently when they decided to go with a PRS kind of finish. Amber finishes hardly fade, it’s the red that fades into brown at some point. And it’s hard to find a badly faded amber PRS finish.

But also remember that back in the day - and I’m talking up to around the late 70s/early 80s or so - guitars were almost always in their cases when not being played; no one I knew hung their guitars on walls, and very few players had more than one guitar, so they took great care with expensive ones. I knew a lot of musicians back then as a guy who played lots of gigs, so I’m not just guessing.

Also, imported, inexpensive guitars were a rarity until I’d guess the 70s era. Sure, there were Teiscos and the Italian guitars, but if you went into a music store, you didn’t see many of them back when I was a kid. People paid a lot for their instruments - a Les Paul was close to $400-500 in an era when you could buy a new Plymouth car for $800. A Fender was actually considered the ‘cheap option’ among serious players.

Erratum: The ‘50s Plymouth was $1700, not $800. The Les Paul was indeed about $400 plus case.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I have to say the most indestructible finish - it can avoid fading AND people wanting to run off with it - is the old "Pee Test Gold" that my EG-3 wears with pride!!! It is a truly hideous color in person, and seems to cause most people to utter the sound "Bleck" when they see it!!!! (lol)

We’re the bridge pieces removed, it’s just the wear pattern is unusual?

 

[markd21]

We’re the bridge pieces removed, it’s just the wear pattern is unusual?

I've never removed them. The saddles were like that when I got it. I can only guess the original owner had a weird palming technique.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I've never removed them. The saddles were like that when I got it. I can only guess the original owner had a weird palming technique.

It’s is unusual

(Space here for Alan or Dave to make a Tom Jones pun)

 

[Kiwi]

Related question:

Does the Fire Red ( or Fire Red Burst) color fade easily? Is it known to change color?

I apply SPF 45 to all my PRS guitars and then treat them like vampires, but I've seen (from pictures here) how the blues and violets can fade quickly. Thought I'd ask about the reds.

-K