What do y'all recommend (Gibson SG and LP guy, ABB/DTB sound)

[67King]

Currently own a '90 Les Paul Studio that is the regular guitar, and a newer SG Standard that I have set up for slide. Absolutely love the SG, the sound I get is incredible. Pickups are 57's. The Les Paul is the one wiht which I'm not happy. It has 490/498. I generally like much more thick tones, with minimal overdrive. So I play the neck pickup almost exclusively. I also do not use a pick, just my fingers and thumb. Play 11's. I am just not happy with the LP's sound. I can't seem to make it as thick as I'd like wihtout it getting muddy. Have gotten to know the local PRS dealer a little, and initially I had thought to put pickups in the LP to get a better sound. I was thinking 57's, he suggested 59's (much harder to find). Amp is a mid 90's Fender Blues DeVille 4X10.

At any rate, as we got talking one day, he told me the back story on Derek Trucks almost getting his own PRS guitar. Assume it is mostly true, but no telling how it may have changed being handed down. At any rate, I eventually became a little interested. I've been planning on buying a resonator, but I'm rethinking that, and maybe getting another electric to kind of be an all purpose guitar. Due to life in generally, I have not played very much in many years, but am trying to start playing more, espcially as a couple of my kids are getting interested. I've known about PRS since a guy who became a friend of mine my freshman year at Ga Tech introduced me to them in 1992. Loved them for a non-Gibson ever since, but had never really considered one, as our styles were vastly different.

Musically I like blues, blues based rock, some of the jam bands, but I also enjoy jazz (in a different sense, I play some John Coltrane stuff with my slide). The outlier is that I'm a huge Mark Knopfler fan. So the big appeal of a PRS is the whole coil tapping thing. I know I can't make one sound like a strat, but it'd be a whole lot closer than my Les Paul. Beyond a PRS, a fall back would be just to pick up another SG. Zzounds has blems for $1000, which is a whole lotta guitar for the money. I know folks here don't like newer Gibsons, but I don't need to hear/read that. There are 2 reasons I'd shy away from that. Seems awfully redundant to have two identical guitars, only one having been set up for slide. The other is that I think I can get more versatility out of a PRS.

So what would folks here generally recommend? I could swing a new S2, possibly a used core. I have a couple of thoughts in mind, but I'd like to get some input before I share them. Would appreciate any thoughts (again, though, focus on the PRS upside, not the QC et al issues with Gibson). Current stuff.

 

[AP515]

I don't think you have to worry too much about us bashing Gibson. We'll have a preference for PRS for sure, but we like any guitars that work well and sound good. I have Fenders and Heritage (think Gibson before the move to Nashville) as well as PRS.

As to your question, I'm thinking a Cu24. It will have the versatility you are looking for, and is the hallmark PRS for a long time. But there are lots of other options. Lately I've been playing my Cu24 and really loving it.

 

[CVS]

If you are thinking of going the core route. I would look at the McCarty 594. It can give you vintage LP sounds ( I have also played neck pick up jazz with it - 100% clean) and it has coil splits which are usable.Finding a used one may be an issue, since this guitar was introduced this year. The other issue is as you mentioned, the coil splits are usable, but if you really want single coil Strat like sounds, you will have to get a Strat (IMHO).

One other PRS to think about would be the CE22. I don't own one but from what I have read about what you are looking for, this guitar might be something to consider. Perhaps someone who owns one can chime in here.

Good luck

 

[Michael_DK]

If you have the possibility to try out the guitars in a real store, I'd definitely look into the S2 line - but also the cheaper SE. Among both of these are/were the all-mahogany guitars, that are called "standards". Maybe that's a good place to start, since you say you really like your SG.

 

[67King]

Alright, thanks for the initial thoughts. Would welcome more input.

Should have mentioned that I'm a big Mike Houser (original Widespread Panic guitarist) fan, as well. Yeah, I know, another Fender guy. But that and Dire Straits would be in the minority of stuff I'd play, so I can't justify a Fender at this point.

Here is where I am. Local place (small store, not a Guitar Center - which has mostly the SE line) has two that interest me right now. The salesguy I've sort of struck up a friendship with is really pushing the S2 Mira. And while I know he is a salesman and that's his job, he was really more talking it up telling the story he did about Derek Trucks when I was discussing what kind of pickups to put in my Les Paul, so it wasn't that I came in and told him to recommend a guitar. That one is very intriguing. Looking back over the old ones (Core), I dislike the 24 fret layout. I fear that pushing the pickup down will thin out the tone. Listening to the samples of the new Cu22's and 24's seems to confirm the sound change. However, countering that is that the SG has a gap between teh fretboard and the neck pickup......so that seems to contradict that, but I don't know. Mira X? Don't like the sound of basswood. There's the spotted cat rare 2010 one, P90 I think?, that is a 22 fret Core. So what is teh hangup with the S2? Frankly, I have no idea what pickups are in it. I have been searching, and can't find it. Are they Alnico 2's, 5's, ceramics? Windings? All PRS puts out is that they are "S2 Mira" pickups. I've read at some place that the pickups are sourced from overseas. But I really like the Mira, reminds me of a Les Paul double cutaway. The one they have is a hollow body (which really intrigues the jazz side of things to me). It is a 2.5 year old one that is still new. Natural finish (kinda ugly IMHO), hollow body. He'll sell it for $1000, which seems like a really sweet deal to me. It also is appealing because I can leave it out and if it gets banged up, no big deal (my LP is really banged up, which I think gives it a lot of character - helps to have the Chuck Berry autograph, though!).

The other one they have that intrigues me is a 2009 P22. I don't know much about it. It is pretty beat up, which I don't mind. They have it marked at $1750, which is about $500 more than the list on the Mira above. I haven't been able to find out info on those pickups, but it has a 5 blade switch......which if I am not mistaken means it can't run the neck pickup split, only both split. But I don't know what is in those....would love to think they put in 5708's or 5809's, but I don't know.

On the SE line.......I actually recommended that to a friend last night (single cut 245). He doesn't play, but wants to learn, and reallyl wants a Les Paul, so he's been looking at Epiphones. That said, I'm pretty much an American snob, to be blunt. I hate that the industry has shifted overseas so much. Great for intro guitars (like my kids)......but I would rather put numbers into a decontented American made guitar than an upscale import. And I can't tell you it is logical, it isn't. But I know that I'd get one, and I'd just never be happy knowing it wasn't American. Kinda like tube amps. Just can't stomach the thought of a solid state one.

I know absolutely nothing about the bolt on necks. Had not even thought about one until the recommendation above. So I need to look more into that, but they appear to be kind of between the S2 and core lines, price-wise.

If I could have anything, it'd be a single cut McCarty 594. But I just can't justify a $4K guitar. Maybe if I get playing more when I have more time, but not quite right now.

So what are people's thoughts on those, and other options? Don't want to focus too much on what I'm looking at if there are better options.

 

[markintime]

Have you considered the S2 Vela? Starla humbucker in the bridge, and the Delmonica reincarnation in the neck. Love mine.

 

[Rider1260]

2009 P22 - The P22 is a thicker bodied CU22 at a Piezo bridge should have 57/08s in it from that year, SUPER versatile at that price I don't think you could go wrong.
http://www.prsguitars.com/index.php/electrics/core/p22

As far as the S2 line goes it just keeps getting better I like the S2 CU22 Semi Hollow also in single cut , S2 Vela and the S2 Starla ( I have a Core Starla and it KILLS )

 

[shinksma]

Hey OP, that P22 would certainly interest me, since I love guitars with piezos, but I wonder if the lack of coil taps/splits would mean you really aren't getting what you want.

An S2 Custom22 (Semi-hollow or solid) or CU24 might get you where you want to go: they offer up push-pull for coil tap, and what should be a very a good pickup in the 85/15S.

In the SE lineup, the cost is lower thanks to overseas manufacturing, but the quality is pretty well the same and the pups are the same as the S2 line. I suspect the SE CU22 (solid or SemiHollow) doesn't have push-pull coil-tap, though - but the SE CU24 does, according to the PRS Product page. The SE CU24 has a blade switch, while the SE CU22 has a three-way toggle, so maybe that is how they differentiate. :shrug:

I would go for the S2 CU22 semi-hollow, because i really like the sound of my SE Zach Myers, which is another PRS semi-hollow, but the solid CU22/24 would be a great option too, of course.

There are a ton of great instruments in the PRS line-up, so you will probably get every single one of them recommended for various reasons. For example, a used 513 would get you closer to a strat than most other PRS while still having humbucker modes, with a slightly longer scale length of 25.25" (vs the usual 25" for most PRS).

 

[László]

Truth is, you can't go wrong with any PRS model. It doesn't take a specialist guitar to do the music you've described, a good, all-around instrument should do just fine.

Just try a bunch, and see what speaks to you. There's one out there with you in mind.

 

[67King]

I was a bit mistaken, the Core is a Custom 22, not a P22 (they have a new P22 similar color). So not nearly as good a deal. Plus they've only had it a month, so they probably won't negotiate as much on the price (they've had the S2 Mira for 2 years). And from what I've heard of the Dragon 2 pickups, I don't think it'll be able to give me that thick SG like tone (Derek Trucks-ish). Probably a whole lot closer to the Fender stuff than the Gibson. But I'm assuming that they are going to be very similar to the ones from the early 90's (friend in college had a couple).

Unfortunately, there's not a good place near me that has a lot of different options, so I won't be able to play all of them (they also have a new CE24). Need to go in and play what they have, but haven't had a chance to, yet.

Anyone know any specs on any of the S2 pickups? I'm looking for Alnico 2, around 8K......well, at least I think that's what I want.

 

[Michael_DK]

Numbers and magnet types don't matter, my friend - play the darn thing and see if you're blown away The Mira sounds like a good match, on paper

 

[Lee B.]

I think I would definitely spend a little quality time with that P22 and see what you think. I know that model is on my own wish list! As for PRS brand strengths, the neck jumps right out. It's fast, wide, and the 25" scale is very comfortable. Note attack is snappy and chord stretches are easy. You get sustain for days. Between the low friction nuts, high quality hardware, and straight pull mild tilt headstock, PRS guitars stay in tune better than anything else I've ever played. Mine is 26 years old and half the time I don't need to tune it at all when I pick it up from the rack. The woods, hardware, and handiwork are best of the best, even on the lower range models. I would say if you are looking to get the strattiest tones possible from a PRS, check out the CE24 too. The maple bolt neck and tremolo are key elements in getting a truly stratty tone, and the 85/15 pickups are optimized for really good coil tap tones.

 

[dmatthews]

I know it's very subjective, but try that P22 out for an hour or so. Mine covers so much ground it's hard not to find a happy place for the rock/blues we play.
And that piezo is the icing on the cake being able to jump to a very nice acoustic sound along with mixing it with the mag pups. It's just heaven.
The ONLY snivel is that I prefer a wide/fat neck. If my McCarty had piezo...
BLADE POSITIONS

• Position 1: (down) Bridge Humbucker
• Position 2: Bridge Humbucker with Neck Singlecoil
• Position 3: Bridge and Neck Humbuckers
• Position 4: Neck Singlecoil with Bridge Singlecoil
• Position 5: (up) Neck Humbucker

 

[xjbebop]

SG = Vela
LP = DGT

...done...

 

[Huggy Love]

What a lot of replies suggest is to go try out some PRS models for yourself, hands on/ears locked, so that you will find the one to fall in love with.
This is the best advice that comes out of these "recommend" threads, and holds true since the day I came to this forum...........................it just opens the door for a lot of gear lust.

As for models:
-I always promote core models personally and a used 408 will do a lot of the coil tapping sounds.
-24 fret (CU24) will give you a different range to work with.
-used p22 will give you a bonus acoustic sound
-For some folks nothing beats "new" and if that's your thing, and an S2 is in your budget, try a few of them, the guitar shops usually have a few of those to try out.

Good luck in adding a PRS to your arsenal.

 

[67King]

What a lot of replies suggest is to go try out some PRS models for yourself, hands on/ears locked, so that you will find the one to fall in love with.

I would love to be able to, but unfortunately, my options are somewhat limited. The closest dealer with any notable inventory is a couple hundred miles away. Surprised that even the Guitar Center here only has a few options. I'm kind of digging some of the older SC245's. Seem to be in a justifiable price range (I don't play enough to justify a $3K+ purchase). But I'd love to be able to play one, first. The "easy" answer is to just go buy another SG to compliment the slide one. Maybe put in some 4 wire pickups so I can tap the coils. But buying the exact guitar of which I already have one seems a bit silly.....especially if I can pick up something with a little more versatility (noting that thick Gibson sound is the primary goal, any Fender-esque sound is secondary - and sorry to compare to those, I know PRS' are the cream of the crop, but they newer than most of the music I listen to).

 

[dogrocketp]

The biggest problem is that we each like the PRS model that speaks to us. In some stances, that`s several models. I listen to every PRS review on YouTube, just to try and get some sense of what everything sounds like. They`re all good, mate. That`s why a lot of us have more than one. For me, the biggest issue is that a PRS always sounds like a PRS to my ears. And I love the sound. Having said that, the new CE24 has got me thinking. I have a 2003 CE24 that is great, so that would be my suggestion. Just go into it expecting new sounds, better intonation (especially above the 12th fret), and the ability to do things other guitars won`t.

 

[Rider1260]

As far as which PRS model to get let me tell you that the typical PRS will cover way more ground than you might imagine, I can say that each one ( and I have a version of most ) is better than the last, I have yet to find a stinker or sub par PRS, I have only played 1 of the PRS that I own before I bought it and have NEVER been disappointed.
If you can live with used find a used Core guitar it will change you !!!
Good luck in your hunt

 

[AP515]

... I know PRS' are the cream of the crop, but they newer than most of the music I listen to).

Me too but they still cover that stuff really well. For me it's about the amp as much as the guitar. A good amp that has the tone you want will get you into the territory you are looking for. The guitar does make a difference. A strat isn't going to sound like a Les Paul but the PRS will cover both and it's the amp that will make or break it.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

You'd be surprised what a good amp can do. You can accomplish pretty much everything you're asking for with just about any PRS guitar, as long as you get the right amp. I second all the advice above -- try out a bunch of guitars, redirect your focus from "what you know" (SG, LP), to "what it is you're trying to accomplish" (ABB, DTB, MHWP).

Concentrate on the familiar -- what are the scale lengths, for example, of your two beloved guitars? PRS Guitars most typically settle at that wonderful middleground of 25 inches even (the 594 being one exception). You'll find yourself naturally drawn to similar scale lengths for "playability", but you might find that you can handle any scale length, and might settle on an entirely different one for The Tones. Definitely go in with your Eyes Wide Open.