What constitutes a new guitar?

[Craig Bennett]

Well I feel better that most here feel it is a used guitar and I should have been told the history. I am waiting for a call from the store, I will call them in a couple of hours if I do not hear from them.

I have had two guitars that spoke to me (out of perhaps 19 that I've owned), my first Les Paul and this one. This is why I am torn. Though I am pretty sure the quality of the PRS production is such that another CE24 would speak just as loud to me.

I will update when all is settled. I appreciate all your comments! And yes, it does seem a little like Judge Judy. LOL

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Well I feel better that most here feel it is a used guitar and I should have been told the history. I am waiting for a call from the store, I will call them in a couple of hours if I do not hear from them.

I have had two guitars that spoke to me (out of perhaps 19 that I've owned), my first Les Paul and this one. This is why I am torn. Though I am pretty sure the quality of the PRS production is such that another CE24 would speak just as loud to me.

I will update when all is settled. I appreciate all your comments! And yes, it does seem a little like Judge Judy. LOL

If it speaks to you... then keep it. I overpaid for my CE24 in 93-94 and all these years later, that couple hundred bucks means nothing to me.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Oh... but I should mention I never did business with that store again.

 

[Dweebs]

yeah, having read through i think the general consensus is that you've got yourself a nice guitar, and if you're happy with the guitar you should keep it, without a doubt the store were obliged to let you know this was a returned product, so personally I'd know in my head I'm keeping it, but maybe don't let on that's your intentions and see what they say. Worst case scenario if you need any other gear or bits and pieces, see if they'll do some kind of store credit for the difference.

 

[jackcrowder]

Send it back, shop somewhere else.

 

[LEscanilla]

If it were me, I'd opt for option #1, and ask the retailer for a reasonable explanation of why the guitar was sold at a higher price than the receipt displayed. I usually prefer to let folks save face in case they made an error that went unchecked. The retailer may offer a reasonable excuse, but it'll be your choice to accept the retailer's apology or not.

I must have trust issues. If I feel like someone was trying to pull one over on me, there’s no way I’d listen to their reason why they didn’t get away with it.

You’re way cooler than me. More power to you brother!

 

[CandidPicker]

I must have trust issues. If I feel like someone was trying to pull one over on me, there’s no way I’d listen to their reason why they didn’t get away with it.

You’re way cooler than me. More power to you brother!

It's just my core belief system. For some reason, I personally believe that there is good in people, and that we should look for that, before judging or being quick to call out someone's error.

Listening to others goes a long way towards resolving issues. My feelings is that let the retailer say his peace and move forward.

My feeling is that the retailer wasn't aware of the receipt that was connected with the OP's purchase. Hopefully, if the retailer is what I consider to be a "good" person inwardly, he should make good on a discount that reflects the sales receipt, and if not, then that would be a time to walk away from the deal.

 

[Guitpicky]

Some retailers (perhaps most where I'm based) will re-classify a returned guitar as a '2nd', and drop the price slightly.

I think most reputable dealers will do that if there are any issues, but if there aren’t any it’s still a new guitar. Look at it from the dealer perspective, if it’s still in like new condition with no issues why should they take a hit? Guitar Denter not withstanding because they abuse everything and everybody. Half the “new” stuff they sell ought to be marked as B stock

 

[Guitpicky]

I must have trust issues. If I feel like someone was trying to pull one over on me, there’s no way I’d listen to their reason why they didn’t get away with it.

You’re way cooler than me. More power to you brother!

That’s where flexible morals come in handy. I’m pretty much the same way but it would depend on how much I wanted the guitar, and how they played their hand when put on the spot

 

[LEscanilla]

My feeling is that the retailer wasn't aware of the receipt that was connected with the OP's purchase.

I wholeheartedly agree that people make mistakes. It happens...not a big deal.

If the retailer had apologized and offered a discount there wouldn’t have been an issue. Craig wouldn’t have any concerns about their integrity; and he would probably be posting about his great deal on a used guitar.

However, in this particular case, the retailer was made aware of the receipt but still disagreed that it was a used guitar. Plus he didn’t immediately offer a discount or fix the loose pot.

Just saying, I would go with option 2 and move on.

 

[Guitpicky]

It's just my core belief system. For some reason, I personally believe that there is good in people, and that we should look for that, before judging or being quick to call out someone's error.

Listening to others goes a long way towards resolving issues. My feelings is that let the retailer say his peace and move forward.

My feeling is that the retailer wasn't aware of the receipt that was connected with the OP's purchase. Hopefully, if the retailer is what I consider to be a "good" person inwardly, he should make good on a discount that reflects the sales receipt, and if not, then that would be a time to walk away from the deal.

If I were the dealer I’d probably be kicking myself for that one. If not for that receipt they’d have a perfectly happy customer. Still, the honorable thing to do is give him the same price. It’s entirely possible the first purchase was a “friend” price for a good customer and the second at the normal price. Nothing nefarious there, but it could easily be misinterpreted without all the pertinent info

 

[CandidPicker]

I wholeheartedly agree that people make mistakes. It happens...not a big deal.

If the retailer had apologized and offered a discount there wouldn’t have been an issue. Craig wouldn’t have any concerns about their integrity; and he would probably be posting about his great deal on a used guitar.

However, in this particular case, the retailer was made aware of the receipt but still disagreed that it was a used guitar. Plus he didn’t immediately offer a discount or fix the loose pot.

Just saying, I would go with option 2 and move on.

We're still waiting to hear how Craig got on, so I'll reserve my comments until we hear the results of Craig's discussion with the retailer...

If I were the dealer I’d probably be kicking myself for that one. If not for that receipt they’d have a perfectly happy customer. Still, the honorable thing to do is give him the same price. It’s entirely possible the first purchase was a “friend” price for a good customer and the second at the normal price. Nothing nefarious there, but it could easily be misinterpreted without all the pertinent info...

Exactly. Because of the misunderstanding, this is what led to the tensions regarding the sale. The retailer will likely need to make good on the sale price if he wishes to keep a customer, and I'd likely say that any retailer who doesn't wish to maintain his customer base will not do well in today's economic climate.

The difference between retail stores and online stores is the physical customer service. If retail stores can't provide better customer service in person, they might as well close shop and work solely online.

 

[dcm_guitar]

In my opinion the retailer should have sold this as a demo model and disclosed that it had been returned. From a condition and "newness" standpoint I think this is totally fine.

BUT

The retailer did not disclose any of this. I would simply return the guitar and tell them I'm spending my money elsewhere.

I would not be upset about the condition of the guitar at all. I would be VERY upset at the less than honest sales practice. There are too many wonderful retailers who are 100% upfront about things to settle for that type of buying experience.

As far as the price issue.....If the guitar originally sold for less than you paid...well, that's on you. Some people are better negotiators. I don't fault the store for trying to make a reasonable profit, but I DO fault the store for not telling you the history of your new guitar.

In this case, the retailer is simply lying by omission and I would not ever buy from them.

As always, this is my opinion and may not agree with yours at all; and that's totally, 100% good.

 

[CandidPicker]

In my opinion the retailer should have sold this as a demo model and disclosed that it had been returned. From a condition and "newness" standpoint I think this is totally fine.

BUT

The retailer did not disclose any of this. I would simply return the guitar and tell them I'm spending my money elsewhere.

I would not be upset about the condition of the guitar at all. I would be VERY upset at the less than honest sales practice. There are too many wonderful retailers who are 100% upfront about things to settle for that type of buying experience.

As far as the price issue.....If the guitar originally sold for less than you paid...well, that's on you. Some people are better negotiators. I don't fault the store for trying to make a reasonable profit, but I DO fault the store for not telling you the history of your new guitar.

In this case, the retailer is simply lying by omission and I would not ever buy from them.

As always, this is my opinion and may not agree with yours at all; and that's totally, 100% good.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I still think that the retailer made an honest mistake not noticing the sales receipt. It's up to the retailer to make good on this, and if they don't, then move on. No sense disputing facts when the retailer can't see them.

My feeling is that the retailer did not disclose the sales history of the guitar and may have tried to sell the guitar as new, when in fact it was not. That in itself may be reason to walk away from the deal, since a demo model is not a new guitar, nor is a previously sold and returned guitar new either.

The guitar is "used," although the guitar's condition may prove otherwise (save for the wobbly pot). IMHO, "used" or "demo" models ethically cannot be sold with new prices, period.

 

[dcm_guitar]

I agree with most of what you've said, but I still think that the retailer made an honest mistake not noticing the sales receipt. It's up to the retailer to make good on this, and if they don't, then move on. No sense disputing facts when the retailer can't see them.

My feeling is that the retailer did not disclose the sales history of the guitar and may have tried to sell the guitar as new, when in fact it was not. That in itself may be reason to walk away from the deal, since a demo model is not a new guitar, nor is a previously sold and returned guitar new either.

The guitar is "used," although the guitar's condition may prove otherwise (save for the wobbly pot). IMHO, "used" or "demo" models ethically cannot be sold with new prices, period.

My issue is NOT about the dealer forgetting the previous sales receipt in the guitar. That's a simple mistake, and not a big deal at all.

My issue is that the dealer did not disclose the guitar had been sold previously and returned. Even if the instrument looks 100% mint, that should be disclosed as soon as the customer looks like a serious, potential buyer. The guitar should have been marked "demo" and then the history of the instrument should have been disclosed.

 

[Mirroredas]

If you're a highly skilled and picky player, and that particular guitar just feels right, after having tried a lot of different guitars over the years, keep it, like a few said. Make them lower the price as much as you can, don't feel sorry for that store.

In your case, and I'm not saying this to diminish you in any way, I guess you liked that CE24 because it's basically a very good guitar. The chances that you are going to find another one that you'll also love are high on a brand like PRS. Other than that, it's like a relationship. It started smelling funny (because of bad sales ethics), and you'll be reminded of that over the years.

 

[CandidPicker]

Like I've always said, "If the car begins making a funny noise, do you turn up the radio to drown out the noise, or fix the car?"

Well, duh, unless you want the noise to drive you nuts, fix the car.

Ask the store to discount or compromise on the price based on the previous receipt located in the guitar case.

 

[Craig Bennett]

I owe you all an update. After much consideration, I decided I wanted to keep the guitar. I did a little research on the store and this salesperson, I found perhaps 3 so so reviews out of 50 high reviews and those bad ones were minor. The salesperson I was doing business with was highly praised and has been there a long time (store has been in business for 40 years).

I decided to let the salesperson address his side after he researched what happen. First, he told me he did not want me to have this guitar if for any reason I felt it would be tainted. He wanted me happy and offered all three options I listed on his own....+1. He explained he did not know the history and apologize for this. The salesperson that had sold it is no longer with the store (fired before this all happened). He was selling gear at or slightly above cost to boost his sales volume, this was not store policy. I imagine those lucky few customers are very happy!

The timing of the first sale was at the time folks received the stimulus money. I imagine he purchased this hoping to hide it from his wife, it did not end well for him! (Totally speculation on my part).

Back to the salesperson:
He offered the guitar at a very good price with a direct refund and not a store credit. another +1.
He offered a full refund..+1
He offered to order a new CE24 at the very good price. But, he had contacted the factory that morning to see if he could get one off the assembly line and the best that can be done would take up to 8 months. This was a honesty checkpoint for me. I emailed PRS with their lead-time for a new CE24 Amber the day all this happened. They responded almost immediately and said the lead-time is 6 to 8 months...+1

I also asked the PRS CS if they considered this a new guitar. They were very PC....if their dealer considers this a new guitar sale, they do too and fully honor the warranty.

The salesperson restored his integrity in my mind. As pointed out in several comments, if I had not seen that receipt, I would have been happy with the original deal. The new deal was too good to pass up. I was able to purchase the Mannmade bridge and a practice amp from the refund deal he made me. We both agreed we wished that receipt had never been found.

The volume control was not loose as I and he had thought. The shaft has a lot of play in it, to the point it feels like a loose pot. The CE model has the American made pick-ups and jack, but the electronic (volume, tone, switch) are sourced from a different manufacture than what is used in the Core Custom 24. according the PRS CS. I spoke to Dave Mann, he thought they were the same, but in any case, he provides the same components as the Core, so I might change them out eventually.

Bottom line, I am a proud owner of a "new" CE24 Amber that plays great, which I got it for a fantastic price. I am happy. As far as dealing with the store in the future, I don't know. They are the type of music store that is getting harder to find, one that I have always been comfortable in, so most likely I will.

I want to thank all that responded. I appreciate all the comments, they helped solidify my decision.

 

[DISTORT6]

As long as YOU’RE happy, I’d say we’re all happy for you.

 

[LEscanilla]

Happy for you Craig and congrats on the new guitar!

I’m a little confused...is the salesman that offered you the discounts the same guy that initially disagreed that it was a used guitar?