What constitutes a new guitar?

[Craig Bennett]

My apologies for the long story, I have to setup the situation a little.

I went to pickup my "new" PRS CE24 Amber today. Purchased yesterday and picked it up today after setup with my choice of strings (not really). Curbside only due to CoVid 19 restrictions. Got it home and while playing noticed the volume control was loose. No worries, I will pull the knob and fix it. While looking through the paperwork there was a receipt with it. Thinking it was mine I at first disregarded, but since it was stapled to their punch-out list for final check out I thought I would look at it. (Seeing how could they miss the volume control..right?)

This was a receipt from the sale of this particular guitar in April to someone in Ohio. It had been shipped Fedex 2 day and evidently that person returned it. The kicker, it was sold for a lot less than what I had bought it for.

I called the store (this is not a big box store, but a local music shop) and explained the situation. This was an interesting conversation.

I admit, I was ticked that they did not do a through inspection and told them. Second, to leave a past receipt and then call this a new guitar bothered me a lot. The sales person disagreed that this is a used guitar since it has full factory warranty. I told him that once it leaves his store and his control, it is used. We had to agree to disagree.

I left the guitar with them, they are suppose to let me know what they plan to do from a price standpoint as well as fix the loose pot. I am not as concerned about the price, I had expected to pay full price, they did knock a little off, which I was grateful for. I am more concerned on their integrity. I felt the sales history of this guitar should have been disclosed to me.

This was also not a normal buy for me. I have been without a guitar for over 25 years, so is not a "have to buy" situation. I received news a week ago that has put into perspective what is important to me. Playing guitar was one of the happiest times of my life, I want to enjoy that again with a fine quality guitar.

The hour I had with it today has me loving the CE24. Much better then the Gibson's I once owned.

So, the reason for this post.

Would you consider this to be a new guitar?

My options:
1) I can either keep the guitar (after working out a price adjustment)
2) Return for refund and go elsewhere
3) Return and ask for a new one to be ordered from PRS. I would want it from the factory setup with the .008" E string as I had wanted and asked for. (Yet another story, they put a .009 E saying the .008 E would buzz.)

I am leaning toward number 3. I wish I knew the lead time of this particular guitar.

 

[Tahlee]

Number 2.

 

[Rider1260]

Don't think #3 can happen , PRS will not set your guitar from the factory. they come with the strings speced for that model ( 9s or 10s except the DGT 11s ) you can send it back to PTC for a set up at your expense.

You could do the second option , noting that most stores have a 30 day exchange policy and unless damaged those guitar would still be sold as new from my experience.

If the guitar you have is the one !!! , I would hammer them on price ( below what you saw on the receipt ) and play a killer guitar.

 

[Craig Bennett]

Don't think #3 can happen , PRS will not set your guitar from the factory. they come with the strings speced for that model ( 9s or 10s except the DGT 11s ) you can send it back to PTC for a set up at your expense.

You could do the second option , noting that most stores have a 30 day exchange policy and unless damaged those guitar would still be sold as new from my experience.

If the guitar you have is the one !!! , I would hammer them on price ( below what you saw on the receipt ) and play a killer guitar.

That is good to know on the PTC. The guitar came setup for 10's according to the factory tag.

When I played, big box stores and online just was not a factor. Things have changed for sure.

Good point on number 1. I could use the difference to put a MannMade bridge on! It really is a nice guitar and plays very well. If it had not been for the price difference and not knowing upfront, I would have just fixed the pot and set it up myself.

I was in sales for years and just believe in honesty. I would have thought nothing if he said, hey that guitar was sold and returned, I will make you a killer deal on it. I would have taken it without another thought.

 

[Guitpicky]

If you like the guitar let them fix the issue and ask for the price on the receipt you found. If they find a way to argue against that take your business elsewhere. Since you didn’t mention any other issues I’m guessing “new” is a matter of semantics. I’d only be miffed about the price difference if it’s in like new condition. The loose pot is kind of a non-issue like you said because it’s relatively common on new guitars and easily fixed.

Good luck

 

[RC Mike]

Seems to me that you’d be wise not to trust them on the idea that the PRS warranty is valid. They’re selling you a used guitar at a new price.

 

[11top]

I think it’s a combination of 2 and 3, PLUS the guitar arrives in the exact condition as any new guitar sale. So, either the loose volume control or the added paperwork in the case should be grounds for returning it for a full refund IMO. However, it should be the store’s option to refund in full (if you want to return it) or offer it to you at the “receipt price.”

I feel like Judge Judy.

 

[LEscanilla]

I’d go with #2 out of moral principle. If you liked that CE24, you can get another one just like it from an honest dealer. Luckily those guitars are very consistent.

 

[merciful-evans]

Some retailers (perhaps most where I'm based) will re-classify a returned guitar as a '2nd', and drop the price slightly.

 

[tiboy]

Years ago I was traveling. I went to a local GC and spent an hour playing a PRS SC58. Left without it. About a year later I found myself in the same GC. The same SC58 was in the same location. I thought how new can this be if people have been playing it for at least a year. Likely it had more play time than many of the used guitars many of us buy.

To me new means it came in the box that it left the factory in or was opened, inspected and set up by the dealer who replaced it in the box where it remained until arriving to the consumer.

 

[ScottR]

I feel like Judge Judy.

Then you ARE Judge Judy...only prettier and with a little less hair. Don't let anyone take that away from you dude.

 

[bodia]

Tough call. I'm not sure how long it'll be before you can pick it up. Hopefully long enough to cool down. I say that because, right now, I am hot. I mean flaming hot, call the BBB, hot. That's not a good sales practice, and is total BS. If the sales guy can't see your point of view, he's not very good at his job. It was bought by someone else, and returned...that makes it used. Period. If they're willing to make it up to you with a discount, and you're good with that, there is nothing wrong with taking what they have to offer. I'd certainly be wary to do business there again.

I'd either opt for 1 or 2, depending on what kind of deal they're going to give you. While 3 seems like a good option, you'd likely be waiting a while for that guitar to show up. There's a pretty good back log at the factory right now. Not to say they don't have CE24's ready to go, but you're risking a wait, that's all.

 

[vchizzle]

As long as it’s in new condition, it wouldn’t bother me if it was a return. Guitars in shops get played, bottom line. Any play-wear results in a discount.

The original receipt thing....ugh. I couldn’t get past that. I’d probably demand that price, plus discount for you having to take it back because they didn’t check it over after a return and were careless. I’m all about giving the chance for someone to make a situation right. I’m also all about a big discount.

There are dealers who seem to list guitars as “floor model” or “used with factory warranty” or something to that effect...with some discount already on the guitar.

 

[Black-Viper75]

I'm also going to say option 1 if you really like the guitar and can get a satisfying discount. If not, move on with option 2. I've also handled sales and the foundation of sales is building trust between the consumer and the sales person. The store that sold you the guitar has burnt that bridge. My wishes for a quick outcome to this situation in your favor. Keep us updated.

 

[Davey]

I would be upset and absolutely go with option #2. Its not because I paid more than the original owner, not because it had a loose volume knob and not because it had a previous owner, but all 3 and the biggest issue for me that trumps them all, this dealer kept all of this hidden. Maybe the sales person didnt know but they should keep better track of their records and that makes them incompetent and if they did know, then that, to me, is shady business practice and I want nothing to do with them and I take my hard earned cash elsewhere. It makes you wonder, if they did try and hide this, what else have they hidden?

 

[dogrocketp]

First question, did the guitar speak to you when you played it? Every guitar is different and you have to have the one that is right for you. If the answer is yes, I would do the following...They have to give the guitar to you for the receipt price, less 10% for lying. Next- they must put in writing that the guitar comes with a full factory warranty, and then you email the factory to be sure that holds true. If they give you attitude, remind them that this won’t look good on yelp, and that the BBB will absolutely have to know that they lie to their customers. If the guitar didn’t speak to you, just get your money back. If you are in the DMV, pm me about where to go.

 

[DISTORT6]

If it leaves the store, it is used.
It already had an owner.

 

[CandidPicker]

New Guitar: Arrives in sealed, unopened carton with all case candy, hang tags, warranty. Arrives with OHSC or OGB. Has seen no previous play time other than an inspection at the factory.

Demo Model: Purchased by a retailer for floor display. Will have OHSC or OGB, all case candy, hang tags, and warranty. May or may not have original shipping carton. Will likely have seen some play time as a floor model.

Used/Returned Guitar: Has been purchased previously by at least one previous owner. May or may not have seen playing time. May or may not have all original case candy, hang tags, or warranty card. May or may not have OHSC, or OGB. May or may not have any cosmetic or other issues. May or may not be modified. May or may not retain all original parts in conjunction with the modification(s). Used/returned condition is a reflection of its reduced price. Used price needs to be consistent with the guitar's year of manufacture, based on condition (e.g. excellent older examples with little to no cosmetic or other issues should command a higher price, more well-worn examples with player's "mojo" cannot command a higher price than examples in better condition, unless provenance is involved)

If it were me, I'd opt for option #1, and ask the retailer for a reasonable explanation of why the guitar was sold at a higher price than the receipt displayed. I usually prefer to let folks save face in case they made an error that went unchecked. The retailer may offer a reasonable excuse, but it'll be your choice to accept the retailer's apology or not.

If perhaps you can't accept, then, by all means, ask for a full refund and walk. No sense in dealing with folks who can't show you the same patience and consideration that you will.

 

[ScottR]

New Guitar: Arrives in sealed, unopened carton with all case candy, hang tags, warranty. Arrives with OHSC or OGB. Has seen no previous play time other than an inspection at the factory.

Demo Model: Purchased by a retailer for floor display. Will have OHSC or OGB, all case candy, hang tags, and warranty. May or may not have original shipping carton. Will likely have seen some play time as a floor model.

Used/Returned Guitar: Has been purchased previously by at least one previous owner. May or may not have seen playing time. May or may not have all original case candy, hang tags, or warranty card. May or may not have OHSC, or OGB. May or may not have any cosmetic or other issues. May or may not be modified. May or may not retain all original parts in conjunction with the modification(s). Used/returned condition is a reflection of its reduced price. Used price needs to be consistent with the guitar's year of manufacture, based on condition (e.g. excellent older examples with little to no cosmetic or other issues should command a higher price, more well-worn examples with player's "mojo" cannot command a higher price than examples in better condition, unless provenance is involved)

If it were me, I'd opt for option #1, and ask the retailer for a reasonable explanation of why the guitar was sold at a higher price than the receipt displayed. I usually prefer to let folks save face in case they made an error that went unchecked. The retailer may offer a reasonable excuse, but it'll be your choice to accept the retailer's apology or not.

If perhaps you can't accept, then, by all means, ask for a full refund and walk. No sense in dealing with folks who can't show you the same patience and consideration that you will.

Yeah, I agree, especially when it comes to condition. New is new, a demo is a demo, and the rest are used. Or as I like to refer to them "previously loved" and are in either poor, good or excelent condition. With varying levels of subjective conditions. At least from what I've encountered anyway.

As far as the dealer...caveat emptor my friend...but I would not give them a shot, unless like @dogrocketp said...if the guitar really speaks to you, go for the heavy discount. If not...continue your search elsewhere. Besides, the hunt can be a lot of fun too.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I voted #1.

Stores shouldn’t be allowed to sell a guitar twice without them selling at a discount.

But... customers need to nut the f@ck up and realize that once you bought something, you f@cking bought something.

There’s no crying in baseball.