What compliments & contrasts a McCarty?

[Screamingdaisy]

I'm looking for something that compliments and contrasts a McCarty.

TL: DR version, skip to the bolded question below.

My main setup for the last number of years has been a Les Paul w/ PAFs and a Les Paul w/ P90s (R9 & R6). I also have an SG that I use for alt tunings and as a beater that I take places I don't want to bring my LPs. I recently picked up a Telecaster after being told that it was useful for layering when recording and I think I like it more than the LP w/ P90s because it's a little more unique sounding and gives me a broader pallet to work with (The R6 and R9 might have different pickups, but they both sound like Les Pauls).

I play primarily hard rock. Tonally, think Soundgarden, Corrosion of Conformity, Sabbath, etc. I tend to favour a sludgy 70's sort of sound with modern attack and punch.

I primarily play through Dual Rectifiers. I don't channel switch clean/dirty. I set the gain fairly moderate (vintage high gain @ 11:00) and use my volume/tone knobs to go from clean to crunch to lead, supplementing with a clean boost when I need a bit "more". When I change channels it's to change textures... all of them are set for lead with my guitar on 10. Toss in wah, UniVibe, Fuzz Face, Octavia, tape echo and mix to taste.

The McCarty has totally fit into my style, particularly with the volume knob being so easy to ride relative to a Les Paul and I've finally started soloing above the 17th fret. I also like having single coils on tap when I want to back things down even further and/or switch up the sound.

So... if you were me and in the market for a couple more PRS... which would you chose and why?

(for simplicities sake, lets say I sold everything except the McCarty and only owned that 1 guitar)

Cheers,

SD

 

[justmund]

I'd be looking at a Brent Mason, Korina body, Maple bolt-on neck, trem, narrow 408s with a 305 in the middle.

After that, a Studio, Narrowfields in the neck and middle, then I'd find an uncovered \m/ (or a 59/09) and slot that into the bridge. Similar construction to the McCarty but very different pickups. You could look at a Swamp Ash Studio too if you wanted something different.

Or, if you were wanting something more LPish, a Stripped 58 (or SC-58) for some singlecut, 57/08, 2-piece bridge sweetness.

My 2c

 

[bodia]

After that, a Studio, Narrowfields in the neck and middle, then I'd find an uncovered \m/ (or a 59/09) and slot that into the bridge. Similar construction to the McCarty but very different pickups. You could look at a Swamp Ash Studio too if you wanted something different.

I'll second the Studio. Very versatile. I'd also toss out the 408 as an option.

 

[László]

Like you, I use the volume control on my guitars to control my amps, though mine are single channel for the most part (PRS HXDA and DG30, plus a Mesa Lone Star channel switcher that I mostly leave in one channel). I've gone through a lot of PRS guitars over the past 25 years - mostly in admittedly foolish buying and selling. However, I've usually had a McCarty on hand, and do now.

Here's what I have that I think compliments the McCarty - McCarty Singlecut, Custom 24 30th Anniversary, and since the 408 came out, I've mostly had one on hand, too, and right now to cover that base I have the 20th Anniversary Private Stock model with two 408s and a narrow field pickup ordered.

Don't underestimate the CU24; it's got a beautiful tone, splittable pickups, a more focused midrange than the McCarty, and it suits a lot of different styles very well. The 85/15s on the newer CU24s are uncovered versions of the 58/15s on the McCarty, but they do drive an amp differently, and have a different vibe, especially in the CU24 where the pickups are closer together.

In all honesty, any of these could cover most bases for me, but it's nice to have a few for the variety of things I do in the studio. Truth is, I've never met a PRS I didn't think was a really useful, cool guitar.

 

[BALIstic]

I'm looking for something that compliments and contrasts a McCarty.

TL: DR version, skip to the bolded question below.

My main setup for the last number of years has been a Les Paul w/ PAFs and a Les Paul w/ P90s (R9 & R6). I also have an SG that I use for alt tunings and as a beater that I take places I don't want to bring my LPs. I recently picked up a Telecaster after being told that it was useful for layering when recording and I think I like it more than the LP w/ P90s because it's a little more unique sounding and gives me a broader pallet to work with (The R6 and R9 might have different pickups, but they both sound like Les Pauls).

I play primarily hard rock. Tonally, think Soundgarden, Corrosion of Conformity, Sabbath, etc. I tend to favour a sludgy 70's sort of sound with a modern twist.

I primarily play through Dual Rectifiers. I don't channel switch clean/dirty. I set the gain fairly moderate (vintage high gain @ 11:00) and use my volume/tone knobs to go from clean to crunch to lead, supplementing with a clean boost when I need a bit "more". When I change channels it's to change textures... all of them are set for lead with my guitar on 10. Toss in wah, UniVibe, Fuzz Face, Octavia, tape echo and mix to taste.

The McCarty has totally fit into my style, particularly with the volume knob being so easy to ride relative to a Les Paul and I've finally started soloing above the 17th fret. I also like having single coils on tap when I want to back things down even further and/or switch up the sound.

So... if you were me and in the market for a couple more PRS... which would you chose and why?

(for simplicities sake, lets say I sold everything except the McCarty and only owned that 1 guitar)

Cheers,

SD

Simple. You and everyone on here who doesn't have one already, "need's a 513" !

Why ? 5 pickups, 13 excellent sounds....I just picked up a Digitech Jimi Hendrix Experience pedal combining most of the effects you mentioned above and they are a killer combo together.

 

[vchizzle]

SC245(or 58 or stripper),
Studio or narrowfield guitar,
Mira or Vela.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

The Brent Mason wasn't on my radar, but it is now and I'll definitely check one out out if I can find one. As a Nashville session guitarist's signature, is it more along the lines of a Tele?

The Studio seems to be discontinued but I'll check it out if I can find one. Is there a current production guitar that superseded it (maybe the 513?)?

I'm curious about the 408s. I kind of wrote them off as the McCarty is already a double humbucker guitar and I figured there'd be quite a bit of overlap. What will a 408 give me that the McCarty doesn't? What can you guys tell me about the 408 pickups and how they differ from traditional humbuckers? How are their split tones? How does a 408 neck compare to a Narrow-Field? I notice the 408 neck seems to be migrating to other guitars while the Narrow-Field appears to be being phased out; any thoughts to this?

The 513 is the one I'm the most curious about, in part because (to me) it seems like the most obvious contrast with the most built in versatility. I'm curious about how two single coils in hum bucking mode sound compared to a traditional humbucker? Do the neck and bridge singles come across as more Strat like or Tele like? I'd like to know how the notch positions sound relative to a Strat? One of the things I can't do with the McCarty (or my Tele) is get any in-between sounds, which is a definite bonus on any of the 3 pickups guitars listed.

As for the CU24... I plan on getting a used one eventually. Long term I'd like something with hot pickups and a trem, but it's low on my priority list.

And as for the SCs, how do they sit on the body relative to a double cut? Are they McCarty thick or Les Paul thick? How's the upper fret access? I'm probably the least interested in these as I already own a few Les Pauls, but who knows, maybe someday I'll change my mind.

 

[Boogie]

Complimentary can also mean 'related but opposite', so I instantly thought of the Starla and Vela. Somewhat similar to the Tele and Les Paul compliment. Totally unique and fill different sonic spaces but fit together very, very well. No experience with the Vela firsthand, but with their shared bridge pickup and body thickness, they both sprung to mind.

 

[BALIstic]

The Brent Mason wasn't on my radar, but it is now and I'll definitely check one out out if I can find one. As a Nashville session guitarist's signature, is it more along the lines of a Tele?

The Studio seems to be discontinued but I'll check it out if I can find one. Is there a current production guitar that superseded it (maybe the 513?)?

I'm curious about the 408s. I kind of wrote them off as the McCarty is already a double humbucker guitar and I figured there'd be quite a bit of overlap. What will a 408 give me that the McCarty doesn't? What can you guys tell me about the 408 pickups and how they differ from traditional humbuckers? How are their split tones? How does a 408 neck compare to a Narrow-Field? I notice the 408 neck seems to be migrating to other guitars while the Narrow-Field appears to be being phased out; any thoughts to this?

The 513 is the one I'm the most curious about, in part because (to me) it seems like the most obvious contrast with the most built in versatility. I'm curious about how two single coils in hum bucking mode sound compared to a traditional humbucker? Do the neck and bridge singles come across as more Strat like or Tele like? I'd like to know how the notch positions sound relative to a Strat? One of the things I can't do with the McCarty (or my Tele) is get any in-between sounds, which is a definite bonus on any of the 3 pickups guitars listed.

As for the CU24... I plan on getting a used one eventually. Long term I'd like something with hot pickups and a trem, but it's low on my priority list.

And as for the SCs, how do they sit on the body relative to a double cut? Are they McCarty thick or Les Paul thick? How's the upper fret access? I'm probably the least interested in these as I already own a few Les Pauls, but who knows, maybe someday I'll change my mind.

I can't describe pick ups in technical terms but I can tell you that the 513 pups are incredibly versatile and can do Jazz to metal and great lead tones. Given the fact that they're 5 SC pups (count em, 5) they are bloody awesome in HB mode, both clear and full modes. It really is like having three different guitars.

I only have HB equipped Tele's, so I'm no expert on them but I would say that the 513, despite the vastly different body woods and construction is closer in sound to a Strat than a Tele. In fact they can get very Strat like, so much so that I haven't touched a Strat since buying the 513's. Saying that I did try an older Brazillian RW necked 513 and that was much darker though I believe the electronics were also different on the 513's built up to about '13.. I know there are guys on here with both who can fill you in more on the differences between earlier and later models. As far as getting Tele type sounds, I think with a bit of fiddling about with your amp and the like you could approximate a Tele quite nicely.

I have a Pauls Guitar also, so very similar to the 408. Others will no doubt disagree but the single coil tones here are far less dramatic, in some cases almost indistinguishable to my ears, especially if any OD is involved. I know I'm not the only one who has this opinion. To be fair though I'm a play at home guy, so maybe in a gig scenario at higher volume the difference would be more noticeable. Don't get the wrong idea, I love....love my Pauls Guitar, I love the neck shape, pickups and overall tone. But to my ears flicking the "very cool mini toggle switches" brings about a fairly subtle change in tone compared with the 513.

Lots of good 513 vids on YT but best to search PRS 513 heavy metal, PRS 513 blues and the like or they are mostly shop videos more or less playing the same chord / riff in a different pick up position.

 

[Rider1260]

To go with what you have I would start
CU24 - 408 - 513 - All of these are super versatile and would give you a large tonal pallet to play with
SC-58 ( or stripper) - 305 - a PRS Lester or Strat not really copies just PRS take on the classics
SCT - you get the simple controls , 25" scale and the split coils in a single cut
As you can see I am NO help , I am betting that once you get #2 more will follow it did for me
Happy hunting

 

[László]

Actually, and especially after reading this thread, I'd have to say that all PRS models compliment and contrast with each other in good ways.

That's why you "need" every single one you see, without exception.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Actually, and especially after reading this thread, I'd have to say that all PRS models compliment and contrast with each other in good ways.

That's why you "need" every single one you see, without exception.

While most likely true, my wallet insists I prioritize my "needs".

My problem is getting my head wrapped around PRS models. When I look at a classic model guitar I have thousands upon thousands of recordings across most genres to reference, and I can tell someone "I want a sound like X artist" and they'll give me a reasonable suggestion.

When I look at a 513, Cu22, 408, Paul's, McCarty or DGT I see the same basic guitar in different configurations, but I have no idea what any of the differences sound like, very little material to reference, and no one seems to want to talk about them.

 

[xjbebop]

Well, you say the McCarty is covering most of your bases, so what different direction do YOU want to start with??
Cleaner, more single coil or thicker/darker tones??

fwiw, the 513 will give you both of these in one guitar. It does strat-type tones and LP-type tones, but not really tele-type tones...

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Well, you say the McCarty is covering most of your bases, so what different direction do YOU want to start with??

Honestly, and I know this doesn't help... but, I don't know. Mostly I want to get my head wrapped around the PRS lineup and figure out what's what. I don't really have the ability to conveniently drive down to a well stocked PRS dealer and sample, so I like to do a lot of research in order to focus my efforts.

This morning I found an interview of Paul Reed Smith and the interviewer asked what the 513 excelled at. PRS said that he'd gotten a lot of positive feedback from sidemen in touring acts. Since the original material they have to play may have been recorded using multiple guitars, having a single guitar that could go from single to humbucker to overwound humbucker was a big advantage. That perspective totally changed my understanding of the guitar. I went from, "probably good for covering Hendrix" to, "probably good for covering everything".

I get that people probably don't want to pigeonhole a guitar, and that I'm not being overly helpful by not being able to say "What's like a McCarty, but [insert description here]"; all I want to do is learn more about these guitars and it's hard to dig up any sort of in-depth information.

fwiw, the 513 will give you both of these in one guitar. It does strat-type tones and LP-type tones, but not really tele-type tones...

Thanks.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

What I've been able to find out about the 408 is that it's an 8k humbucker that splits to a 6k single coil. The fatter bridge coil sounds a little more P90 while the thinner neck coil is a bit more lipstick. I haven't heard too much about the humbucking mode aside from the narrower neck being more focused.

Anyone have that kind of information on the 513? I'm curious to know how hot the pickups are in each mode?

 

[BALIstic]

While most likely true, my wallet insists I prioritize my "needs".

My problem is getting my head wrapped around PRS models. When I look at a classic model guitar I have thousands upon thousands of recordings across most genres to reference, and I can tell someone "I want a sound like X artist" and they'll give me a reasonable suggestion.

When I look at a 513, Cu22, 408, Paul's, McCarty or DGT I see the same basic guitar in different configurations, but I have no idea what any of the differences sound like, very little material to reference, and no one seems to want to talk about them.

I hear what your saying, Hendrix, Clapton, Kossoff, BB King, Slash, Brian Setzer, Brad Paisley, to name a few.....the guitars they used to make the songs we know and love (I like all of the above) are as iconic and in most cases as easily identifiable as their music.

While there are heaps of incredible artists using PRS guitars (way more than I knew) to make stellar tunes it's not like the music in most cases would suffer, GASP,.....if they used a different guitar brand. Though I realise I'm on the PRS forum so that's probably a highly subjective (read STUPID) comment. Case in point. Johnny Hiland for example he's gone from a double cut PRS to a double cut EBMM and he still sounds the same. I'm a massive Alter Bridge fan but I don't think Mark Tremonti would sound much different playing a Gibby LP or some type of ESP with his sig pickups.

Although saying that I also don't think Jimi or SRV would sound much different these days playing a Suhr, or BB King with a Collings I35 in hand.

I think my PRS guitars are the most versatile guitars I own. If PRS is your thing just take your time finding one that can get you into sonic territory where you perceive your McCarty is lacking / could be better........for want of a better word.

I'd probably have a DGT but I don't like covered pickups on PRS. I think part of you problem is the McCarty is probably a hard act to follow When thinking in terms of what best to "contrast / compliment" it with, as you said.

Good luck with your research / search. Take your time, it's not a race, I'm sure you'll be happy whatever way you eventually decide to go.

 

[László]

Hendrix, Clapton, Kossoff, BB King, Slash, Brian Setzer, Brad Paisley, to name a few.....the guitars they used to make the songs we know and love (I like all of the above) are as iconic and in most cases as easily identifiable as their music.

This is an interesting discussion all by itself, the identification of the artist with the tool in the public mind.

Fact is, as you so rightly point out, these artists would have been great playing anything and we would have loved their music.

Take Hendrix as an example; back in the day he not only played Fenders, he did bunches of shows with Gibsons - I saw him do it. And he still sounded like Hendrix. And despite his identification with Marshall stacks, it's known that Hendrix used Fender amps quite often in the studio along with the Marshalls. Yet he sounded like...Hendrix. Incidentally, even his recording engineer can't identify or remember exactly which tunes used them for the most part.

This is not to say that the choice of guitar/amp doesn't matter. It matters a lot -- to the player. And it can matter some to the listener, but not as much as folks might imagine.

For me, the question isn't whether I sound like this player or that player; I don't care to chase someone else's tone. Instead what matters is finding tools that let me shade and color my own tones in ways I like. What tool is going to do that job best for me on any given day? What guitar is going to suit the needs of what I'm hearing in my own head and want to record to disk?

In my opinion, the question "What instrument is going to let me shade and color my own tones the way I want, and do the job best?" is the only question that should matter to the musician who realizes the truth that chasing someone else's tone is an exercise in futility.

Why? Because with stringed instruments, the player's fingers touch the strings, and are therefore an important part of the tone. That's inescapable.

You want to try to sound like Hendrix? Go buy a Fender -- it's still not gonna happen. You might get a little closer, though. It's funny, one of the great session player Tim Pierce's videos is a Hendrix lesson. Watch it. He sounds like Tim Pierce playing a Hendrix tune. Not like Hendrix. Different player, different nuances, different brain and different fingers. If anyone could pull it off, it'd be Tim. But even though he's played on thousands of major label records in every style imaginable, he does not get there.

At the 30th Anniversary party, one of the guys asked me, "Why do you play PRS?" And my answer was that having listened to my recordings done with various guitars, the ones done with PRS guitars gave me what I was looking for in terms of tone, and I played a bit better on them, too.

More than that one cannot ask. Try as you might, you're not gonna be someone else. So pick an instrument that suits you and helps you sound like you. That's where the art and the individuality live.

 

[drdoom8793]

This is an interesting discussion all by itself, the identification of the artist with the tool in the public mind.

Fact is, as you so rightly point out, these artists would have been great playing anything and we would have loved their music.

Take Hendrix as an example; back in the day he not only played Fenders, he did bunches of shows with Gibsons - I saw him do it. And he still sounded like Hendrix. And despite his identification with Marshall stacks, it's known that Hendrix used Fender amps quite often in the studio along with the Marshalls. Yet he sounded like...Hendrix. Incidentally, even his recording engineer can't identify or remember exactly which tunes used them for the most part.

This is not to say that the choice of guitar/amp doesn't matter. It matters a lot -- to the player. And it can matter some to the listener, but not as much as folks might imagine.

For me, the question isn't whether I sound like this player or that player; I don't care to chase someone else's tone. Instead what matters is finding tools that let me shade and color my own tones in ways I like. What tool is going to do that job best for me on any given day? What guitar is going to suit the needs of what I'm hearing in my own head and want to record to disk?

In my opinion, the question "What instrument is going to let me shade and color my own tones the way I want, and do the job best?" is the only question that should matter to the musician who realizes the truth that chasing someone else's tone is an exercise in futility.

Why? Because with stringed instruments, the player's fingers touch the strings, and are therefore an important part of the tone. That's inescapable.

You want to try to sound like Hendrix? Go buy a Fender -- it's still not gonna happen. You might get a little closer, though. It's funny, one of the great session player Tim Pierce's videos is a Hendrix lesson. Watch it. He sounds like Tim Pierce playing a Hendrix tune. Not like Hendrix. Different player, different nuances, different brain and different fingers. If anyone could pull it off, it'd be Tim. But even though he's played on thousands of major label records in every style imaginable, he does not get there.

At the 30th Anniversary party, one of the guys asked me, "Why do you play PRS?" And my answer was that having listened to my recordings done with various guitars, the ones done with PRS guitars gave me what I was looking for in terms of tone, and I played a bit better on them, too.

More than that one cannot ask. Try as you might, you're not gonna be someone else. So pick an instrument that suits you and helps you sound like you. That's where the art and the individuality live.

+1000

This is the truth, ladies and gentleman.

The best advice I could say is to buy a guitar that can expand your creative horizons. As Les said, pick gear that will color your tone in new and exciting ways. Think of it like a painter's palette, each different instrument being a different color. Two artists may use a similar set of colors for a painting and end with an extremely different result. You don't look at the blue and black of the Starry Night and think "if I paint with blue and black, I will paint like Van Gogh." It just doesn't work that way.

 

[László]

+1000

This is the truth, ladies and gentleman.

The best advice I could say is to buy a guitar that can expand your creative horizons. As Les said, pick gear that will color your tone in new and exciting ways. Think of it like a painter's palette, each different instrument being a different color. Two artists may use a similar set of colors for a painting and end with an extremely different result. You don't look at the blue and black of the Starry Night and think "if I paint with blue and black, I will paint like Van Gogh." It just doesn't work that way.

You said it much better than I could have. I love the Van Gogh/paint example.

 

[xjbebop]

what I hear in the back of my mind all the time is a quote from Billy Gibbons - "Play what makes you happy..."
Since hearing that a year (or two?) ago, I apply that to most aspects of my life. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. What matters is what YOU think & feel.