Virtuosos?
- Thread starter eugeneelgr
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RowdyGrunt
Serial Six String Abuser
jxe
babe en der wood
don’t look at me, my fav virtuoso was glenn gould.
BWV548
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Gould is an interesting one for me. Brilliant, in my opinion, without question. Nobody, to my ear, played-or plays- Bach on the modern piano as well. Schiff, would be my second, but I’d still take Gould. That said, for any other music, I’d take Schiff in a heartbeat. In fact, as much as I love and respect Gould’s Bach, his playing, tho excellent, of the music of other composers completely leaves me flat.
But I don’t think of that as a criticism of him. He seemed to have an intuitive sense of counterpoint and performing contrapuntal music that few performers have matched. And hey, if you’re going to give the best of what you have to the music of JS Bach, then I’m going to sing your praises and be grateful until I’m gone
Alnus Rubra
Loving nature’s wonders
True enough. And I'd argue that Tremonti has that too.
He’s a pretty good set of pipes too!
drdoom8793
THAT guy at Chick-fil-A
He denounces Tremonti and then mentions Herman Li who can't even play his own stuff live. What a joke.True enough. And I'd argue that Tremonti has that too.
sigh..... Mark Tremonti is a very good guitarist. But, he is a hack in comparison to a LOT of other guys out there in terms of technical ability. I can find hundreds of youtube guys who can smoke Mark Tremontis playing ability without much trouble. I know this is the PRS forum and we sort of have to kiss the butts of endorsed artists. But, lets not go completely to fantasy land.
dcm_guitar
New Member
I'm going to disagree to an extent. To me, either one by itself (chops or feel) is only half of the story. To me it's the combination of chops and feel that create the magic. Incredible chops are certainly fun to watch and to hear, but without feel it gets old. Feel without chops lacks an element of tension that doesn't excite as much as I want.
I'm not going to get into a listing of who is and isn't great on a particular instrument. I have folks that move me when I hear them play. Your experience from the same performance may be completely different. That doesn't make my experience or yours right or wrong; just different.
jxe
babe en der wood
sure you need both to be great, but in my experience, one is way more common than the other. (i don’t have either.)
drdoom8793
THAT guy at Chick-fil-A
By that logic, I can find Youtubers that will smoke just about anybody. The simple fact is that Mark Tremonti is one of the best guitarists on the hard rock scene right now. Anybody denying his ability isn't paying attention.
jxe
babe en der wood
i’m definitely not paying attention to mark tremonti.
tremonti : prs forum :: the strokes : livejournal in 2002
tremonti : prs forum :: the strokes : livejournal in 2002
D
Deleted member 5962
Guest
I think a lot of the "issue" here is what people consider a "virtuoso." "Extremely skilled" does not go with many of the people being mentioned here. Al DiMeola, Yngwie, Vai, Govan, Holdsworth... YES! But many other even "great" guitar players are not virtuoso, including many mentioned here, IMHO.
Another interesting (too me anyway) aspect of the word is, does any "feel" player qualify? Per the definition of the word, extreme skills are needed. "Feel" players like the blues greats for example, aren't playing riffs that require extreme skills, they are playing with great emotion but playing riffs that many can play. So can you even call a blues guy or anyone for that matter who doesn't play extremely difficult guitar parts, a Virtuoso? Per the definition of the word, I don't think you can. Meaning, my favorite guitar player ever, Jimi Hendrix, would not be a virtuoso. Unless you consider "feel" a "skill." Or perhaps, "phrasing" as a skill. Since the word originated in Italy, the original intent of the word seems to be all about extreme skill though.
Another interesting (too me anyway) aspect of the word is, does any "feel" player qualify? Per the definition of the word, extreme skills are needed. "Feel" players like the blues greats for example, aren't playing riffs that require extreme skills, they are playing with great emotion but playing riffs that many can play. So can you even call a blues guy or anyone for that matter who doesn't play extremely difficult guitar parts, a Virtuoso? Per the definition of the word, I don't think you can. Meaning, my favorite guitar player ever, Jimi Hendrix, would not be a virtuoso. Unless you consider "feel" a "skill." Or perhaps, "phrasing" as a skill. Since the word originated in Italy, the original intent of the word seems to be all about extreme skill though.
11top
Cousin Eddie's cousin
Let’s see a list of those “hundreds” who could have created or even been able to play the Blackbird solo with the feel and emotion expressed by Tremonti. I’m not defending Tremonti as a “virtuoso,” but you seem to dismiss feeling as part of the equation.
After reading the alot of the posts I am reminded of this...as always, music is completely subjective like any other art. Beauty is in the "ear" of the beholder kinda thing...that being said...THIS guy is what comes to mind when I hear "virtuoso" again it's subjective. According to my ears he's worth a listen.
D
Deleted member 5962
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Is it part of the equation though? As I have always understood the definition of the word, it sort of isn't. Tricky question. But per my understanding of the word, it means extremely skilled... not extremely emotional. So a guy playing simple riffs with great emotions a la SRV, would not be a virtuoso, while someone playing extremely difficult passages, would be.
I can see others here disagree with that. But per my understanding of the word, that would be correct.
RowdyGrunt
Serial Six String Abuser
This is an interesting post because it is more ad hominem than rational. It does fly in the face of an objective look at the topic, and that's because it makes a personal attack via name calling and deflection, as opposed to something substantive and factual
Bro, come on. That was emotional conjecture It's cool that you dont like the guy and his style; but to do it via your method isn't the way to go. Of the millions of musicians out there trying to make it, this guy is very widely respected for his ability. Like him or not, calling him a hack is nothing more than sad name calling; and it reaks more of envy than anything.
PRS is a lot of things; but not a brand that will back a hack.
RowdyGrunt
Serial Six String Abuser
11top
Cousin Eddie's cousin
I’m certainly no expert of classical music, but I would tend to believe that emotion is a big part of the reason this dude is labeled as such:
https://www.biography.com/video/wolfgang-mozart-a-natural-virtuoso-12099139568
I would also think the ability to create and convey emotion is a skill.
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jxe
babe en der wood
when i was a little kid with les in the early 1860s, my piano teacher mr pompie told me a virtuoso was a musician who could play a piece in any style (as long as it’s classical) and make people cry with joy. because in those days, lots of us could play the notes but none of us had the feel - which i always thought of as anything beyond the resolution of the sheet music, like timing and dynamics. there were those who brought something to rachmaninov and those that hacked their way through.
eugeneelgr
@eugeneelgr
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Honestly, Tremonti is great but, Jason Hook's work in Five Finger Death Punch, which I feel is similar in vibe to Tremonti's solo work, is at a different level. Would be great if PRS could get him onboard instead of his Gibson Explorer.
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