Utter disappointment with PRS...

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I ordered a SC594 Artist. Waited 18 months. Hated it. The color was in my opinion the worst possible version of the color I ordered, but it was in spec.

I flipped it.

The worst thing about custom guitars is that you might hate it. I've been lucky three out of four times.

I was super disillusioned the second I opened the case. I know what it feels like.

Sorry you don't like the guitar. I would call it a second stock. But who am I?
 
IMO, it's easy to say it's a normal guitar with no issues since you're not the one who waited a year+ and took delivery of it. There's a fine line between saying it's a gorgeous guitar vs actually spending $$$$ on it.

I would say it's a big fat line. With a DMZ in the middle.

What would you do?
 
Agreed. OP, I feel for you. But I wouldn't accept that guitar & while you're looking out for your dealer, he should be looking out for you.

& while PRS may be the best American manufacturer, their response to this situation is unacceptable.

As been said, that top shouldn't have cleared QC, what PRS built its name on, even for an entry level model. It should have been stripped & & restained.

To get to this stage & offer their customer a discount? Well if it were substantial, maybe. Then I'd send it off to someone to fix PRS' gaff.
 
Agreed. OP, I feel for you. But I wouldn't accept that guitar & while you're looking out for your dealer, he should be looking out for you.

I still find this odd. How is the dealer not responsible? As mentioned, they have final say on QC and they represent you to the manufacturer. It is actually the dealers job and responsibility to use their position as a dealer to help you. A responsible dealer will not simply show you the refusal email and shrug their shoulders.

Not to acquit PRS, but your dealer threw you under the bus.
 
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I still don't know why a core line guitar, albeit one with a '10-top' has taken so long to arrive. Surely there have been numerous 10top 594's manufactured during the past year and more. Every time more Maple comes into the factory, it must be separated into 'tiers' and the 594 has been popular so why has it taken so long to get a core 594? If the OP isn't happy with the guitar his retailer picked for him from the rep, then why not return it? why not look online to find an alternative once the money is refunded?

I live in the UK, a place that, like Canada, isn't exactly flooded with PRS dealers and expensive too - more expensive than the US. PRS make several thousand guitars a month in the US (not including all the SE's that come in before being distributed. This guitar isn't a Private Stock - made by a very small group that are making custom order guitars - I really didn't think that the 'core' models, regular or 10-top, were custom orders and would be made to order. If they are, I cannot see why, when they are making their regular core guitars, that they couldn't slip in a DC 594 with a 10top in the colour required. I don't know how the process works but I am sure they could drop in a specific core model into the pipeline for a Rep if requested - it makes more sense to do that than just make core models to be distributed globally for retailers to display for random sales. This is a guaranteed sale so why not just amend one of the core 594 builds to be built with a 10 top in the requested colour - at most its likely to take a month. Its not like Private Stock where there is a 'custom' build going on, this is a request for a standard core line model, something they are making every day.

Like I said, I don't know exactly how PRS decide which core models are to be built, which ones will get 10tops and in what colour but they are making these guitars every day, distributing guitars around the world - not 'custom' orders for 'X' number of guitars with 'Y' number of 10tops. If a Rep knows a 'specific' core is needed/wanted, surely they can call up PRS and amend one of the 594 builds to have a 10top and be coloured a certain way - amend a MODCAT or drop one in so that the 'next' 594 to be built gets a 10top and the colour to go to the Rep for the retailer. I really cannot understand why it would take a year.

The OP doesn't have to accept this guitar either and are well within their right to send it back if they are not happy.It doesn't matter that this is purely a 'cosmetic' issue and has no affect on it as an instrument. The OP has to feel happy and want to play the guitar to get the best out of the instrument. If something isn't right, then they won't want to play it, won't want to pick it up etc. Whether others would be happy to rock this is immaterial, its the OP's 'guitar' (at least until they decide to send it back) and they are the one that needs to be 'happy'.

We can argue all day about who is 'responsible' - whether that's PRS for letting this one through - especially as a 10top, whether that's the Rep for taking receipt of this and 'distributing' it to the retailer, whether its the Retailer for accepting this on the customers behalf and then sending it to the OP. There are 'numerous' steps along the way that could of prevented this guitar from reaching the OP. Its entirely possible that the guitar didn't leave the factory like that, that the stain in that particular area changed - maybe it seeped out of the wood and spread under the finish for some reason (is that possible? can temperature changes affect this?) because to me, I cannot imagine that PRS would mark this as a 10top considering the uniformity and regularity of the grain is what determines the 'grading'. Even throughout the build, tops can be 'regraded' - after a carve for example as that can affect the pattern. If there are areas that aren't even, that can mean a downgrade so I really can't see this as 'slipping' through - right up to the time it was cased, there are QC steps and PRS staff will have put their name to this guitar along its build. No doubt the Serial Number will have the PRS staff involved - not saying they sent an instrument out like this - but at least they may well remember the instrument and, if its happened since leaving the Factory, maybe PRS need to look at how and why to prevent this happening in the future. It maybe just a 'freak' thing due to the very nature of using 'natural' materials like wood...

Obviously the first line of contact would have to be the retailer. If they can't provide a satisfactory resolution, you have the choice to return for a refund or contact PRS customer services and email them these pictures. Chances are, you may have to send your guitar to PTC and be without it for 'months' if this is an option. I personally wouldn't want to go to that retailer again - not if they are 'happy' to accept and then send an instrument like that out. not particularly willing to help.

Either way, the OP needs to act sooner rather than later, decide what action to take. Whether they decide to send it back or not, the time is ticking and the longer you hold on to something, the less chance you have to return it for a full refund (if that's the OP's preferred action). They have to decide whether to return it or what acceptable resolution can be found if you decide to keep it...
 
I still don't know why a core line guitar, albeit one with a '10-top' has taken so long to arrive.
I’m guessing due to CITES export permitting. Fingerboard blanks are segregated batchwise for export, then traced to the guitar serial numbers in the export permit. Once the bus is missed, you can’t just grab any guitar off the line as a replacement. Just a guess.
 
I’m guessing due to CITES export permitting. Fingerboard blanks are segregated batchwise for export, then traced to the guitar serial numbers in the export permit. Once the bus is missed, you can’t just grab any guitar off the line as a replacement. Just a guess.

Even still, it can't be too much of an issue to change a 'MODCAT' for a guitar to have a 10top in a certain colour. No doubt the fingerboards are not tied to a specific instrument as such. I doubt that CITES require that X fingerboard has to be on Y instrument in Z colour - regardless of whether the 'maple' cap is a 10top or not. I can see that they may need to declare that 'A' number of Guitars with a rosewood fingerboard will be 'exported' to Canada, at most the number could need breaking down into numbers of each specific model - like 100 594's, for example but not necessarily the exact specs. Certainly shouldn't matter if one of those 'allocated' to be shipped to Canada can be put on a specific 594 10top to go to that specific retailer instead of just any 'random' 594 that was allocated for exporting - literally just change the MODCAT of one of the guitars destined to go to Canada to fit the specs requested. At most its going to take weeks instead of months. I can't see PRS shipping to Canada just once a year...
 
The hazards of being a guitar maker whose product has become synonymous with beauty

It raises an interesting question. When you order a one-off something like this, are you buying a "commercial product" (for want of a better term) or are you commissioning an artwork? Different standards.
Is there a contract that one signs with PRS for a custom guitar that details expectations?
 
It raises an interesting question. When you order a one-off something like this, are you buying a "commercial product" (for want of a better term) or are you commissioning an artwork? Different standards.
Is there a contract that one signs with PRS for a custom guitar that details expectations?

Not for a 10 top. That is just a standard model and option.

Same for artist package. A couple more available options, but nothing outside the lines.

PS may be a different story.
 
Not for a 10 top. That is just a standard model and option.
Do they actually define in detail what a 10 or any other top is? Or are you left totally at the mercy of the subjective judgement of someone at PRS?
 
Do they actually define in detail what a 10 or any other top is? Or are you left totally at the mercy of the subjective judgement of someone at PRS?

PRS have criteria that determines whether a top is determined to be a '10' top. Being just a 'cosmetic' decision, that will of course be subject to personal opinion. It does appear that most 10tops have regular and consistent striping - no 'blank' areas and stripes that seem regular and even - the darks are evenly thick, like the light areas - that may well be the 'ideal' top to be classified as a 10 top but being a 'natural' product, then some concessions on that 'ideal' have to be made - a few dark lines a bit thicker but you don't tend to see areas that have little/no grain.

The wood is graded on 'look'. Its all cured exactly the same way - regardless of whether its the thinner, less flamed stock for CE's or the thicker higher detailed flames for the Core and above. Out of the batch they receive, the best patterns and quilt maples are marked up for Artist Pack and above and the remainder is (I assume) graded with the best 10% graded as a 10top. This is the way I believe the grading to work.

However, during 'multiple' QC stages, like after the 'carve' and sanding of the body, before a neck is attached, IF it looks 'better' or 'worse', then someone can change the initial grading of the top. A carve for example may reveal a better looking top than anticipated or it could carve something out that now drops the grading down a step (or two).

This is my Custom 24, my 'favourite' looking top (not that the others are bad, my HBii has a one piece top for example with some beautiful thin wood lines but, being a one piece, it isn't 'balanced' and even on both sides like a book match top would be - not complaining about this at all - I think non-10 tops tend to have more uniqueness, more character than a regularly striped, book matched 10 tops often are.

vbFJx28.jpg


I think this guitar looks absolutely stunning and, as all PRS guitars are, much better than this Photo has captured. If you look at the bottom area below the Pots and Switch, it looks like there isn't as many 'stripes', more of just the red instead. Also the area on the other side (top if you are holding it properly) level with the bridge, it looks a bit less stripy too. There are some quite thick black stripes down the middle and in other areas too. I don't understand why this is not a 10 top if the OP's one is BUT if I understand what someone tends to look for in the grading, I can see why this may have missed out on having a little 10 on the back of the headstock.

Every one of my guitars have a 'great' top - more flamed than a LOT of other manufacturers guitars have that are so called AAAAA flame tops. To me it seems that those manufacturers are getting the Maple that was not good enough for PRS to get, the maple they rejected. I much prefer the top on my Custom 24 to many, many guitars that are marked as a 10top. That isn't a reflection on PRS at all, its just that what they consider to be the 'best' looking Maple to be different to what I like. What I love about PRS guitars and their Maple wood grain showing through (instead of guitars that have an opaque finish like a Gold top for example) is the uniqueness and individual characteristic of the variation in the patters - a mix of thin and thicker lines etc. To me each is like a finger-print so I am not looking for uniformity and regularity - almost perfect lines with equally even dark and light space. Quilt tops is a whole different ball game as far as I am concerned and love it more because its so unique. I am not surprised its normally reserved for PS, WL, AP. Its incredibly rare to find them in the regular and/or 10-top core range (I assume these are the ones that dropped down the grading at some check point.

Anyway, that's getting a bit off-topic. Someone at PRS is determining the 'grade' of the pattern in the Maple which can, throughout a build, move up/down the grade at various checkpoints because you never know how the wood will look when its carved and sanded, when it gets stain applied - I assume right up until it gets its hand written Serial Number along with the year. Its at this point when the guitar will get a '10' or not. I would think that the fitting of all the electronics and its set-up, as well as the final check as its cased with all the case candy that a final check would take place. You would think that if the guitar isn't up to standard after its been written on, that someone will send it back to, in this case, the staining/finishing department.
 
There are certain stains that really magnify these types of things in maple, and this is one of them. Trampas Green is another. I've seen blown out artist tops as well, some which have been marked down because of it.

I would not accept that guitar. And while I love PRS guitars, I will never order one either. Too many variables, and too much stock online already where you can see what you will get.

My own avatar guitar is a unique DGT Artist with a rosewood neck and ebony fingerboard. It plays and sounds phenomenal. However, the top is milder than nearly any 10 top you will ever see. There is almost no depth to the flame, and like I had said in the past, it reminds me of flamed spruce instead of maple. It IS symmetrical, and the burst job is as good as I have ever seen. But Artist grade? No way. I have 3 other Artists with incredible flame tops.

But I knew what I was getting when I bought this guitar---a mild top on a special necked Artist---and I paid less for it because of the less than spectacular top. It is an amazing instrument, and one of the best gigging guitars I have ever owned in my 40 years of playing live.

However, if I had paid full price and waited a year and expected a fantastic top, I would have been unhappy like the OP.



 
To start with: I think the OP was fully within his rights to return the guitar for a full refund. Hopefully the dealer will find a purchaser who will see the guitar in person and like the unique top and will pay full price for it. If not, and it languishes, then the dealer should be having a serious discussion with PRS about it.

I don't think the OP can expect PRS to "rush" an order through as a replacement. It's just not how they roll. OP can want it all he wants, I just don't see it happening. So the OP then has to figure out if the better option is to find a different guitar currently available and obtain that instead - which is harder to do up in The Great White North. And I completely understand the OP not wanting to wait another 12 months for the regular order process.

Agreed. OP, I feel for you. But I wouldn't accept that guitar & while you're looking out for your dealer, he should be looking out for you.

I still find this odd. How is the dealer not responsible?

That is exactly what he means: "[the dealer] should be looking out for you".

Yeah, the dealer didn't make the guitar, but the dealer is responsible for ensuring the customer gets what they ordered, and that if something as subjective as a guitar finish is involved, the customer does reserve the right to say "no, that isn't what I expected".

So just to clarify a couple of things that I think are getting overlooked: this wasn't a custom order. Private Stock is a custom order. Even Wood Library runs are only pseudo-custom order, IMHO. This "10-top" is really no different from ordering a car through your car dealer and waiting for it to get built because they don't have one on the lot that matches your wants/needs. The delay is a lot longer than a typical car build, but the idea is the same. The muddy bit is that the guitars are made of wood, and the type of wood is chosen specifically because it takes a finish differently from the last piece - otherwise we'd all have identical looking flamed tops. That variation can be quite wide, obviously.

Unfortunately the designation of "10 top" is truly arbitrary. There are some guidelines such as "complete coverage of figuring - no dead spots".

I feel for the OP - the guitar, while it has an "interesting" top, does not match his expectations of what a 10-top should look like. I'm not sure whether PRS would have graded this any differently on any other day. As I said earlier, I have a "10 top" that doesn't look nearly as uniform as the OP's, and the figuring is much more subtle in normal light. But it is figuring that completely covers the whole top, and is fairly symmetrical. All of my non-10 tops that have figured tops look fantastic, IMHO, but I can see the "dead spots" that disqualified them from the "10-top" designation, even if they aren't very big.

Therefore I honestly don't consider this a "QC fail" - that would mean it was released knowingly not meeting "specs", or unknowingly because no-one really looked at it. I think someone looked at this and said, "yeah, it sure is a bit oddball, but it is still a 10-top according to the (qualitative and arbitrary) rules, in my eyes."

Maybe PRS needs to re-evaluate how it grades 10-tops. If this guitar was "not good enough for Artist Package", that doesn't automatically mean it only falls one grade to "10-top" - maybe it should be an ungraded "regular top".

I dunno, hard to see how this will ever resolve to a happy ending for the OP. The bitter taste will linger, no matter what happens. Since I did not participate in any of the communications between OP, dealer, and PRS, it is difficult for me to judge.
 
Unfortunately the designation of "10 top" is truly arbitrary.
So basically, "It's art because I say it's art. That'll be $5,000(?) plus shipping and handling, please." Geez.
At a minimum, given that amount of variability, if I were going to engage in a purchase like this, since it's not an actual custom order, I would absolutely insist on a photograph of the finished product prior to shipping as part of the deal, which in the age of internet communication is hardly a reach, particularly if they're content with letting you wait for a year+. It's a shame to be made to feel you have to go to that length with a company you feel like you should be able to trust implicitly, but I guess that's just nostalgia..
 
So basically, "It's art because I say it's art. That'll be $5,000(?) plus shipping and handling, please." Geez.
At a minimum, given that amount of variability, if I were going to engage in a purchase like this, since it's not an actual custom order, I would absolutely insist on a photograph of the finished product prior to shipping as part of the deal, which in the age of internet communication is hardly a reach, particularly if they're content with letting you wait for a year+. It's a shame to be made to feel you have to go to that length with a company you feel like you should be able to trust implicitly, but I guess that's just nostalgia..
I don't really have a dog in this fight. I do think it's important to note that we as guitar players are not necessarily PRS's customer. The dealer is PRS's customer and the OP is the dealer's customer. I do want to point out here that I've had some very unfortunate warranty related issues come up on 2 of my PRS guitars that were $4500+ instruments, and the customer service I received was always extremely good to get the situation remedied. PRS actually went out of their way to solve the issue. The only piece of advice I can give is that PRS is a company full of musicians and human beings. Sometimes a thoughtful well approached conversation can work wonders. Not saying that didn't happen here, but ya never know when emotions get going. I truly hope the OP is feeling better about the purchase though and some resolution was reached through this. I personally think it's a cool, unique top with a unique wide curl. Paul himself has a thing for very wide curls on curly maple. That's all....good talk.
 
So basically, "It's art because I say it's art. That'll be $5,000(?) plus shipping and handling, please." Geez.
At a minimum, given that amount of variability, if I were going to engage in a purchase like this, since it's not an actual custom order, I would absolutely insist on a photograph of the finished product prior to shipping as part of the deal, which in the age of internet communication is hardly a reach, particularly if they're content with letting you wait for a year+. It's a shame to be made to feel you have to go to that length with a company you feel like you should be able to trust implicitly, but I guess that's just nostalgia..

I am still struggling to work out why it took a year in the first place. Does the dealer have a bad reputation with the the rep that they cannot get a 'regular' run guitar? I remember reading in the 'Silver Sky' thread that someone was still waiting for their pre-ordered Silver Sky from a specific dealer (in the US) yet all the colours were available from multiple dealers on Reverb. This is a guitar that was 'difficult' to get hold of initially as demand was greater than PRS could make. I live in the UK so its a bit like Canada with CITES and import laws but when I can find Silver Sky's online in every colour and I can find every colour on Reverb in US stores, then something is 'wrong'. You can't blame PRS when retailers have regular run guitars for sale and advertising them oon Reverb, yet a pre-order in a specific store cannot be met.

This is a regular run guitar. Its not a Wood Library or Private Stock order with a PRS dealer - its a regular run. There is a LOT of 10top 594's on reverb - 5 in Canada (not necessarily in this specific colour) and 2 Single Cuts - a Nice Violet Burst Double Cut. There is 280 in the US. I know CITES may make it difficult to purchase one (not sure how that works) but the point is, there are a LOT of 10top 594's on the market. I cannot see why PRS couldn't of married a neck with a Rosewood fretboard destined for Canada to a body with a 10top or change one of the 10 top guitars destined for Canada to a 'different' colour scheme. All those guitars on Reverb are guitars that stores have picked up off a Rep to sell in their store. The rep will take a van full of guitars to dealers for dealers to pick out to sell in their store. They are not made to order. At most, the retailer will ask their Rep if they have any 594's in a 10 top and in that specific colour. Whether the rep asks PRS to make one of the guitars destined to go to Canada a 10top in the specific colour or not, I don't know but PRS were still making 594's, still making 10 tops and still supplying the reps with the guitars to distribute to retailers.

What difference would it make to PRS to make one of the DC 10tops destined to go to Canada a different colour - a guaranteed sale instead of the 'general' ones they are making for dealers to hang on their walls waiting for someone to come in and buy. That 'Purple burst' for example could have its MODCAT changed to be coloured the way the OP wanted anytime before it reached the staining stage for example. If the Rep had spoken to PRS, I see NO reason why they can't create a MODCAT that tells the builders to marry the fretboard destined to go to Canada on a 594 to be a 10top - Maple isn't on CITES so no issue there and certainly not affecting the status quo to ensure that guitar gets the stain job the OP wanted. Its not a 'custom' order and its not as if the thousands of 'core' guitars are made to order. It maybe that the rep said a year because they hoped that in that time, they may get a 10top 594 in that colour to distribute to the stores they supply - play the game of chance and never actually spoke to PRS to request that one of the 594 DC 10tops destined to go to Canada, destined to hang on a wall until someone buys can be made in a regular core colour scheme that the OP wanted.

I am NOT an employee of PRS so I cannot answer if they can or would take a request from a rep for a regular Core (I keep saying Regular core but by that I refer to all the core models that are made up to a 10top - not a Wood Library or Private Stock). PRS make thousands of guitars monthly for distribution globally. All of these go to Reps for distribution to retailers. Its not like these are made to order - the Rep takes these guitars to retailers to pick out the ones they want to sell - they are not 'ordered' so instead of getting a 'random' selection in a variety of colours, a rep could put in a request that the next 594 DC to go through production be a 10top and in what ever colour was needed. It can slot in with ALL the other cores being made for reps to distribute to stores - the ones that 'nobody' ordered specifically that get hung in stores.

If this was a Wood Library or a 'rare' build, a solid Rosewood neck for example or a Private Stock build, I can understand why it may take a year to get their guitar, a year to get it swapped or fixed - but this is a 'regular' core, a guitar that is made to go to reps fore stores to hang on walls to sell. At most, it could take a couple of months. Any one of the 10tops that arrived in Canada and sat on a Wall for months in the hope that some body will eventually buy it - its not made to order and could of been changed to be the colour the OP wanted anytime up until it reached staining.

To me, it seems that something between the Rep and Retailer isn't quite right. Whether the REP actually spoke to PRS or has just waited for the first 10top in that colour to be given to him for distribution. Whether the Retailer isn't a 'favourite' of the Rep and gets the last ones, the ones that all the other dealers hadn't picked to display in their store or not. Whether anyone is being honest in this, the Rep to the retailer and/or the retailer to the OP. Something isn't right. I just can't see why one of the thousands of guitars that are made for no specific person, one of the guitars destined to be shipped to Canada to sit in a store that was not a specific order or requested to be a specific colour could not of been 'substituted' for the build as requested. Whether PRS actually would or not I don't know - but these guitars are NOT specifically ordered by stores to be built in the tops and colours to sit on their wall for a 'random' person to buy. Any one of those builds could have been substituted out, build the 'regular' model in place of any one of those guitars made for Random purchasers to buy. Any one of the 10tops that ended up in Canada could of been stained in the colour scheme requested instead of the colour they ended up being. These aren't 'custom' order guitars, they are regular core guitars and PRS 'could' of adjusted or created a MODCAT for a 'regular' guitar in the colour requested by the rep instead if any of the random colour DC 594s that were destined for Canada. These regular guitars will still be built by the same people, in the same way but instead of a Violet Burst, that could have been changed to faded Blue, Trampus Green or whatever colour. Its not putting anyone out, jumping any queue etc, the guitar was going to be made anyway for a rep to distribute to any random store that wants it to sell.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that PRS don't take 'requests' for their regular builds as that could get out of hand with 100's of Reps asking for specific builds - all wanting 10tops rather than just a 'bulk' collection of guitars to distribute. If this is the case, the rep and retailer had no right to inform the OP that getting the guitar in the specs they wanted would take a year. They can either adjust one of the hundreds of 'random' builds, the builds that go to reps to distribute to retailers to hang on the wall rather than built specifically to go to a specific store for a specific person to meet the specs a specific person wanted OR the rep has to wait to be given a guitar that just so happens to meet the specs of a specific person and deliver that to the store. If the reps can ask for specific combination (ie a 10top in a specific 'core' colour and on a standard 'core' model so not a WL or PS), there is no reason that the build should take that long. Any one of the hundreds, if not thousands of 'random' builds (By Random I refer to the Guitars that are not built for any specific person or store) could have been substituted by a more specific core. They are ALL going through the same build, the same staff etc and all it takes is a MODCAT adjustment to tell the builders to put a 10top on a build, carve it for a DC 594and colour it a specific way - then send that to the Rep in place of the random spec version they may of sent instead. Lets be honest here, it will still have the Fretboard designated for Canada and still just a 'regular' core that instead of sitting on a wall for months until someone buys it, actually has a customer waiting. If PRS don't accept requests from Reps to slot make the next 594 designated for Canada a 10top in a regular core colour - not affecting those people who have WL or PS builds as this is going through the 'same' people that build the regular cores, then why are they saying a year?

Some thing doesn't add up to me so it would be great to have a worker at PRS explain this. Someone somewhere is not being honest here...
 
I'm in Canada and every dealer in my city has told me that the wait for a PRS guitar is 8-12 months.
 
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