USED S2 MODELS

[helmi]

geez is there a $hitload of used s2 models everywhere! just sayin'

 

[bodia]

No more so than anything else. Maybe gotta move the S2 to make room for the new Core

 

[garrettb]

And there are a lot of great deals to be had because of it. Not that I need another, but a few that I've watched on eBay went for criminally low prices. Used S2 might now beat out used SE as my pick for biggest bang for the buck.

 

[Stephen Rudnick]

I started out looking into buying an S2, and wound up saving for a PS instead. How did that happen?!

 

[Gary Atkins]

Not sure where your located but on Kijji here in Canada there are only 4 in total for sale for all of Canada
Gazillion fenders and gibsons for sale though

 

[bodia]

I started out looking into buying an S2, and wound up saving for a PS instead. How did that happen?!

ahhh......life..........

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

There are a lot of great deals on older Core models too....what's that saying? Man I love the PRS secondary market!!

 

[Drew]

certain dealers tag NOS as used so that can advertise lower clearance prices and not break their MAP agreements. So, in a lot of cases, you are getting a brand new instrument for cheap. I disagree with the practice because you are taking away peoples warranty protection just to advertise lower. Because of this, I'd love to see PRS and other manufacturers crack down on this. I'd much rather negotiate with a dealer and get a deal, while retaining the warranty.

 

[rugerpc]

That doesn't happen enough to even be a valid discussion point.

PRS sales to dealers are through area reps. The reps know their territories and their assigned dealers and their inventory. Dealers attempting what Drew describes are/would be quickly noticed and are 'corrected'.

Thus the practice is extremely rare. There are not 'a lot of cases', period.

 

[Drew]

That doesn't happen enough to even be a valid discussion point.

PRS sales to dealers are through area reps. The reps know their territories and their assigned dealers and their inventory. Dealers attempting what Drew describes are/would be quickly noticed and are 'corrected'.

Thus the practice is extremely rare. There are not 'a lot of cases', period.

You are not correct. I'm not going to start naming names, but a couple of well known dealers have done it, and its quite obvious when they do. Very obvious

 

[rugerpc]

I'm not going to argue with you about it.

IF you think it is occurring frequently and rampant, the thing to do would be to contact PRS directly and tell them of your suspicions. Posting about it here helps no one.

 

[László]

You are not correct. I'm not going to start naming names, but a couple of well known dealers have done it, and its quite obvious when they do. Very obvious

By "obvious," do you mean that you have no documented proof and are going on your own supposition based on the condition/price, or do you mean that you have incontrovertible, documented proof?

I think you have an ethical duty to contact PRS if it's the latter.

 

[Drew]

By "obvious," do you mean that you have no documented proof and are going on your own supposition based on the condition/price, or do you mean that you have incontrovertible, documented proof?

I think you have an ethical duty to contact PRS if it's the latter.

Not going to get into this further. I'll end with this. When you do as much guitar searching as I on a daily basis, you begin to notice when things suddenly go from the new section to the used section. That's all. I'm not going to rat anyone out. Its not worth it to me.

 

[bodia]

Ok, simmer down guys. It's not worth getting in a tizzy about. I will have to agree with Drew on this one though. I say that I have definitely seen this happen with a large amount of inventory at a "premier" dealer. Whether or not "the home office" knows about and/or condones the action is not for me, or any one else to speculate about. I would also side with Drew that I'd like to see this stop if for no other reason then I want the warranty. However, I have to weigh the burden of risk versus the monetary savings.

Again, I don't think this is "hornet's nest" worthy, but Drew does make a valid point. And since I've seen the practice, I have to speak up. Whether or not it's one that needs to be discussed/debated, or beat to death is irrelevant. It does happen. I've actually bought two guitars from two different dealers in this EXACT scenario.

I'm not sure if, as a consumer, I have an ethical authority to mention this to a manufacturer. I think this is a nasty part of business, period. To paint with broad strokes; I don't know what the relationship between musical instrument manufacturers and dealers is. However, I can speak from practical, real world experience. And I shall...having managed a distribution center for an office equipment dealership, I can tell you that we absolutely did this. In my case, it breaks down like this:
Dealership Corp office buys gear, and holds cost on HQ books
Area distribution center orders equipment and takes into inventory - cost is shifted to area as gear is sold
Unsold inventory becomes "obsolete" after 12 months and write down begins. A percentage of the cost is moved to the area holding the inventory
That area creates special pricing/promo/sale/mark down in order to move the equipment and recoup some of the depreciation before the area takes the entire cost of the unsold product.
After 18 months it's completely devalued/written off from a cost to the area standpoint. Now we do anything we can to move it.
All this time, in my case, the manufacturer "knows" what's going on because they want us to buy more new gear. It becomes a cycle.

And, I don't really know if it's immoral or unethical. I mean, if I'm holding, and need to move in order to keep new gear rotating through, at some point I have to do something.

Look at car dealerships blowing out last year's models so they can take on this year's model. I know they aren't being sold as "used", but that's where I don't know what the relationship is.

I know this is all over simplified, but it is an occurrence in the business world.

In closing, remember, I love you guys. Take it easy on the beatings. Please!

 

[rugerpc]

I'm not beating anyone.

I ask that you re-read post 9 and I'll expand a very little.

My objection is the level of hyperbole. I know that less than honest dealers would do this. I also know that it is not an every day occurrence as it was painted to be. I also contend that a dealer who does it regularly will be noticed by PRS and the rep that services them.

I object also that the way it was initially presented paints PRS as a company that would look the other way and let customers get screwed out of their warranties when PRS has demonstrably the best customer service policies in the industry.

I get that we have members here that don't see the company the same way I do. My perspective is probably quite different from meeting Paul and hearing him talk about not just the instruments, but the company philosophy more times than I can now remember. Couple that with knowing a relatively few other long time employees and having seen the relationship from manufacture through area rep through dealer.

YMMV

 

[bodia]

I'm not beating anyone.

I ask that you re-read post 9 and I'll expand a very little.

My objection is the level of hyperbole. I know that less than honest dealers would do this. I also know that it is not an every day occurrence as it was painted to be. I also contend that a dealer who does it regularly will be noticed by PRS and the rep that services them.

I object also that the way it was initially presented paints PRS as a company that would look the other way and let customers get screwed out of their warranties when PRS has demonstrably the best customer service policies in the industry.

I get that we have members here that don't see the company the same way I do. My perspective is probably quite different from meeting Paul and hearing him talk about not just the instruments, but the company philosophy more times than I can now remember. Couple that with knowing a relatively few other long time employees and having seen the relationship from manufacture through area rep through dealer.

YMMV

Looked at #9, and agree. I was hesitant to post initially because I wasn't sure if I could type what I was trying to say. Bottom line, in my eyes, this is not in any way related to PRS, but to the operations of the dealer. I'll shut up now. Peace and love!

 

[G-Man]

Aren't there two issues here? Bodia brings up a great point where the dealer buys product, they have left over and then reduce the price to make room for new model inventory. As long as they carry the full warranty, they should be able to be sold at a discounted price. Legally, companies cannot punish a dealer for selling below recommended prices but they often do. It is called fair trade laws but they are often overlooked by the courts to protect manufacturers pricing strategies.

In the case that was presented, regardless of what the dealer says, the warrantee is between the customer and the manufacturer, not the dealer. If the dealer is portraying new guitars as used, they are just being douche nozzles and should be turned into the company. That is just dirty pool. Given the situation, I am sure that PRS would cover any warranty work regardless.

 

[justmund]

Aren't there some "big" music shops that offer return policies on new guitars? What happens with the warranty on those?

Is it possible these guitars end up in the "used" section with no warranty?

 

[G-Man]

Good point but think of the relationship between the company and the consumer that matters. Retail companies often refer to the "shirt law" which means if someone buys you a shirt and you return it, it goes back on the shelf as new as long it was not worn. If you buy a guitar, hate it, and return it the next day, it probably falls under this concept.

Some companies also tack on a return fee meaning that they made some of their margin back on your return and then if they can sell it for new, they double dip. Super grey area.

 

[C&M Music - Lafayette]

geez is there a $hitload of used s2 models everywhere! just sayin'

Back to what the OP was saying. Helmi, I believe there are three reasonable things likely taking place here.

1) The S2 purchaser decided sooner than later to upgrade to the core line as has been previously stated above.
2) The purchaser over extended themselves with the purchase and had to sell. A very common happening with guitars at this price point, regardless of brand.
3) The purchaser expected the moon and the stars and private stock treatment for the price point and was disappointed. No brand is ever going to make everyone happy, it just cant be done.


Now I will add this. The price point of an S2 is a very popular one. Factoring in #3 above and the likelyhood of buying online, you have an issue of $$$ not the guitar. Buying online is about the money saved, never the guitar. End of story, regardless of the details! I hear of more guitars bought online being returned than those purchased for ever so slightly more from mom and pop shops. Relationships with the store owner, are important. Never more important, to me anyway, when buying a PRS from them. Mom and Pop shops complete the experience and are worth the tidbit more in cost. That said, buying a PRS is an experience in and of itself. Buying online and thinking about the money is about self! Not the instrument or what was put into it. It was about the price. Those type of online purchases miss out on the PRS experience. Alot of selves' cant be made happy because thy are chasing the dollar and have to sell a great instrument in their pursusit of getting something for nothing and being cheap and pursuing being happy with getting something for nothing. I dont know if they will ever value the PRS experience because it was not cheap. The S2 guitar is a steal at the price point for which it is offered. Unfortunately it appeals to alot of cheapskates who have unrealistic private stock expectations from a working mans (read musician) guitar. They have to sell because PRS did not go broke enough to try and please them. Dont buy online. Feel the experience and play PRS in a store who has invested their money and confidence in a product that was made with the investment of sacrificial dedication that will always deliver. That experience is not felt on line, it is only free shipping! Hopefully though, #1 above is being successful. I bet it is!

PS, I guess I just went on a rant. Sorry! If this makes me a PRS Snob, I guess I am guilty.