Tuning stability with trems - my formula for less stress

Sounds like I should grab my nut files and sandpaper then.
0 cents is what I get on my Strat build, even dive bombing.
2-4 cents on the CU24s is what I get without having done any additional work on the nut since delivery (PS was way worse).

Yeah, I’d suggest that. I seem to get a lot mileage out of the pencil “lead” trick too, I guess.

I kinda look at it like new shoes: You gotta break ‘em in before they get comfortable.
 
Yeah, I’d suggest that. I seem to get a lot mileage out of the pencil “lead” trick too, I guess.

I kinda look at it like new shoes: You gotta break ‘em in before they get comfortable.

Makes sense for shoes at any price point.
For guitars the way I look at it is that how a nut is cut properly to achieve optimal stability isn't rocket science, and isn't down to personal taste (short of guitars meant for slide).
Slots need:
- not to bind strings
- be smooth
- cut at the proper height: high enough that the string doesn't hit the 1st fret, but low enough so notes don't become instantly sharp in those 1st few frets.
- cut at the proper angle: mostly based on the string break angle at the nut.

If that's done right the only thing that needs break-in are the strings. Add lubricant for good measure, it always helps even with the most perfectly cut nut.
That would be my expectation for any guitar of any brand at the price points we're discussing. My expectation isn't to redirect a UPS/FedEx package straight to the nearest luthier :p to have the nut 'adjusted' before I can take delivery of a guitar.
 
Agreed, though it sounds like you had to do that after receiving the guitar, just like I did.
I would think that at the price point of a Core or PS the nut would be opened up and slots buttery smooth without having to buy a set of files, sandpaper and potentially ruin the nut myself.
Just trying to understand if my out-of-the-box experience so far with 3 Core (decent but not exceptional stability) and 1 PS (went completely out of tune with the slightest trem use) is the norm, or I'm just being extremely unlucky (possible).

I was fortunate that all three of my CU24s didn’t need any nut work when I bought them, but they are older guitars (a ‘92, a ‘97, and a ‘00) that I bought preowned. So there is no telling what the prior owners may have done to them or what changes, if any, PRS has made to the nut material they currently use or their process of filing the slots between then and now.
 
Reading through this thread, I have to admit to myself that my newer PRSi are not as stable as the older ones that impressed me so much and gave me Religion.

I have an '02 CE that never goes wrong, I tune it and it's good for 2-3 hours of playing and is still in tune when I pick it up 2-3 weeks later. By contrast my 2013 and later guitars seem to need much more attention to tuning, including my three 594s. Granted, I haven't put any work into helping them be stable, but shouldn't I not have to?
 
I’m a guy who frequently “bombs” and wiggles while playing. (Take that anywhere you’re want). I don’t expect anything I buy to be right for me when I get it. After the requisite 30 days of breaking the guitar in, I’ve put a good 40 hours into the instrument. I then know what string gauge the guitar seems to respond the best to, and have worked out the pickup settings. Does the trem respond better to 3 or 4 springs? Is the trem setting exactly parallel to the strings? I start my daily practice session on a new guitar by dive bombing and then raising the trem 5 or 6 times. Then the guitar gets tuned. After practicing and maybe making a minor mechanical adjustment, the trem gets worked 5 or 6 more times, the guitar gets retuned, wiped down and put away. Do this for three weeks or so, and the trem is broken in. If necessary, the guitar then goes to the luthier for nut tweaking, and other minor adjustments. All my trems stay in tune. All of them have core nuts if they have a trem. Remember, they tell you to break in your $60,000 car before you take it on a long trip.
 
I'm sure a multi-million plane or yacht needs 'break in' too, it's however a false analogy.

As explained earlier a nut can be carefully and correctly made from the get go to achieve perfect tuning stability, the only thing to break-in are the strings and tremolo assembly.
I don't expect a guitar manufacturer to break-in strings and the tremolo assembly for me, but I sure do expect the nut to be as ideal as possible for optimum tuning stability. It's not hard, but it sure does take time.

Break-in can be a substitute in some cases (e.g. rough nut slot could become smooth eventually), why should it be though ?

Having said that, the information is good as it seem my experiences so far are closer to the norm than I was expecting.
I'll adjust expectations accordingly.
 
I'm sure a multi-million plane or yacht needs 'break in' too, it's however a false analogy.

As explained earlier a nut can be carefully and correctly made from the get go to achieve perfect tuning stability, the only thing to break-in are the strings and tremolo assembly.
I don't expect a guitar manufacturer to break-in strings and the tremolo assembly for me, but I sure do expect the nut to be as ideal as possible for optimum tuning stability. It's not hard, but it sure does take time.

Break-in can be a substitute in some cases (e.g. rough nut slot could become smooth eventually), why should it be though ?

Having said that, the information is good as it seem my experiences so far are closer to the norm than I was expecting.
I'll adjust expectations accordingly.

I don’t feel like you’re really wrong, or should have to adjust your expectations. It’s a drag to buy a guitar and have to work on it, and it’s even more frustrating if you’re not handy enough to do it yourself.

Most of my guitars have been pretty close (I think) to to not having to do much to them, I guess I’ve just become accustomed to having to “finesse” most non-double locking trem systems a bit to get them to function as well as they could.

If I have to put some graphite in the slots... fine. But yeah, you’d hope the nut was cut well and smooth in the slots.

Edit: I feel like most of my Core guitars came with fully functional trem systems, but I bought a bunch used, and maybe some of the new ones I’ve gotten had been from the time period where PRS set them up for .9’s, so I needed to alter them for .10’s.
 
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I'm sure a multi-million plane or yacht needs 'break in' too, it's however a false analogy.

As explained earlier a nut can be carefully and correctly made from the get go to achieve perfect tuning stability, the only thing to break-in are the strings and tremolo assembly.
I don't expect a guitar manufacturer to break-in strings and the tremolo assembly for me, but I sure do expect the nut to be as ideal as possible for optimum tuning stability. It's not hard, but it sure does take time.

Break-in can be a substitute in some cases (e.g. rough nut slot could become smooth eventually), why should it be though ?

Having said that, the information is good as it seem my experiences so far are closer to the norm than I was expecting.
I'll adjust expectations accordingly.
The nut is not the be-all of tuning stability. The knife edges have a huge amount to do with it. As PRS himself always says, everything affects everything. We live in an imperfect world.
 
The nut is not the be-all of tuning stability. The knife edges have a huge amount to do with it. As PRS himself always says, everything affects everything. We live in an imperfect world.

Many things can be imperfect.
Fortunately the nut happens to be one of the easier ones to get right, provided sufficient time and effort which is contentious in a production environment.
I called it out specifically because, in my case, it was the reason of my tuning instabilities with near complete certainty.

I'm flexible though. I expect having to take care of it myself on a $150 Squier, I even tolerated having to take care of the B string binding in the nut last month on a new PRS SE A60E. Once you get into the $4-10k range my expectations change quite a bit though.

Either way, the good news is that it sounds like they can be made incredibly stable, which can't be said of some vintage designs.
Good thing I already have the nut files ;)
 
On a similar note, yesterday at practice I ran an experiment with Mr. Clean (‘12 DGT Std). The strings were 5 days old and had been played twice, full stretching, Nut Sauce (at the nut and saddles), etc. We have a few songs where I do dives and/or big pull pull-ups and, with this guitar, it struggles to come back perfectly. The results were pretty good...yes, I spent a good amount of time retuning for the first 90 minutes, but after everything had warmed up and I’d pulled out all of the unstretched areas (especially between the ball end and the saddle), it stabilized pretty well.

Compared to the Custom 24, my DGT is a PITA if I really use the trem. I also found that when using 11s on all guitars, sometimes I hit the crap lottery where the A string tuned to perfect 440 at the edge of a winding coil...you get to -2 cents and give the tuner button a slight twist and it jumps to +3 cents instantly...no in between. When I went down to 9s on the CU24, this problem disappeared probably because the windings are much smaller and the nut sauce can do its job better.

In all, it showed me that, a.) the CU24 is the better guitar for this application, and, 2.) big strings and a trem don’t play well together.
 
I was going to ask about tuning stability but felt a bit scared asking about that on this forum.

So far I haven't really had much luck getting noteworthy tuning stability from the several CU24 I had/have, including a Private Stock one.
The PS had binding on the G string (and maybe B too) but also extremely rough slots which definitely weren't helping wound strings be stable even with lubricant. I left the benefit of the doubt on biding (maybe caused by not playing the guitar for a while), but the rough nut slots didn't become rough from sitting unplayed in a case :p

In contrast the Strat guitar I built with 2-point Wilkinson VS100N tremolo, locking tuners, and GraphTech TUSQ XL nut returns perfectly to pitch on every single string even dive-bombing on the trem bar. That required a lot of work on the nut by making sure there was no binding (easy), carefully sanding the slots with 2000 grit until I could no longer feel the slightest friction sliding a string cut off into each slot, and finally putting lubricant for good measure. Achieving that tuning stability on a 3x3 tilted headstock design with a tremolo seems far more challenging.

So really, how stable are your tremolo-equipped PRS ? How many cents are we talking about to be deemed stable ?


Ditto man. Speaking my same language.
Biggest disappointment ever was receiving my insanely expensive P Stock that I waited 8 months to receive, and it was almost unplayable due to tuning issues and a 22, no trem. Sent it back 2 times and while better, not great and totally killed my excitement and vibe about owning a P Stock. Assumed it would be a 10+ and my go to guitar, but I’ve not bonded with it due to tuning instability and I guess I’m still a bit pissed off and disappointed. As I said, I play it on gigs but with little confidence so trust me, I feel ya.
Sorry, hope it get’s better.
 
Are you still having tuning problems, Summer? My CE 24 wouldn’t play in tune for 5 years. We tried everything and couldn’t sort it out. I was close to giving up and While changing strings I noticed that the trem claw didn’t seem to be mounted correctly. I took it to Philtone Music in Baltimore, he plugged the holes, redrilled them, and now it stays in tune perfectly. Human error struck again. I would have given up, but everything else was fantastic, and I was convinced it was something obvious I had overlooked.
 
Are you still having tuning problems, Summer? My CE 24 wouldn’t play in tune for 5 years. We tried everything and couldn’t sort it out. I was close to giving up and While changing strings I noticed that the trem claw didn’t seem to be mounted correctly. I took it to Philtone Music in Baltimore, he plugged the holes, redrilled them, and now it stays in tune perfectly. Human error struck again. I would have given up, but everything else was fantastic, and I was convinced it was something obvious I had overlooked.

It is after working on it for almost 2 years, a brand new private stock. I couldn’t believe it after what I paid, brand new. Still a prs guy but no more p stocks. Glad you got yours worked out. Thanks, happy Sunday.
 
Thats some cool hot stuff live, the tremolo was nearly raped, like a Floyd Rose one..Haven´t seen often the PRS-Tremolo being used so intensively..:eek: But well, it works fine:cool:

Word! Yes, it does work just fine.

That was from a lame ESPN 2 marketing/ TV show for The World Cup (in 2010?). I put new strings on at 7am, stretched ‘em, and tuned once for the whole day’s shoot because I didn’t bring a tuner!
 
It is after working on it for almost 2 years, a brand new private stock. I couldn’t believe it after what I paid, brand new. Still a prs guy but no more p stocks. Glad you got yours worked out. Thanks, happy Sunday.
Check the trem claw, or have your luthier do it.
 
On a similar note, yesterday at practice I ran an experiment with Mr. Clean (‘12 DGT Std). The strings were 5 days old and had been played twice, full stretching, Nut Sauce (at the nut and saddles), etc. We have a few songs where I do dives and/or big pull pull-ups and, with this guitar, it struggles to come back perfectly. The results were pretty good...yes, I spent a good amount of time retuning for the first 90 minutes, but after everything had warmed up and I’d pulled out all of the unstretched areas (especially between the ball end and the saddle), it stabilized pretty well.

Compared to the Custom 24, my DGT is a PITA if I really use the trem. I also found that when using 11s on all guitars, sometimes I hit the crap lottery where the A string tuned to perfect 440 at the edge of a winding coil...you get to -2 cents and give the tuner button a slight twist and it jumps to +3 cents instantly...no in between. When I went down to 9s on the CU24, this problem disappeared probably because the windings are much smaller and the nut sauce can do its job better.

In all, it showed me that, a.) the CU24 is the better guitar for this application, and, 2.) big strings and a trem don’t play well together.


I can fix it. My dad’s a TV repair man and has an excellent set of tools.
 
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