Tuning stability with trems - my formula for less stress

BrianC

more toys than talent
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
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Location
Naperville IL
I am a CU24, guy and here is what I do to make tuning better, not perfect. Its not a Floyd so there are trade offs. I have four core PRS 3 cu24's and 1 SCT all with trems.

My method is -
- good strings
- everything is clean
- Big Bends nut sauce in the grooves of the nut
- good set up
- before you play stretch each string numerous times with big two hand bends at the 12th
- tune up to pitch only
- play and retune play and retune

Yes it will still require retuning with big bar movements, but with normal playing and accent bar work it holds very well.
 
Solid advice!! I do the same for Floyds as well. I play some with the strings and restrech them a lot before locking the nut.
 
I guess I have better luck than most keeping my trem equipped PRS in tune, it’s as easy for me as I remember (it’s been 25+ years since I’ve owned one) as my Floyd type guitars.

First, your nuts gotta be good. I’ll use the next size up string to widen the slots a bit on most guitars, and if there’s anything else that’s worse going on with it, I’ll fold a small piece of fine-ish sandpaper and hit only the sides of the string slots of the nut. I’ll also rub a little pencil lead in the slots and on the bottom of the strings the first ten times or so when getting a new guitar.

Second, and this is a big one that y’all goof on me for: Winged Phase I tuners.

Look at your headstock with Phase II’s and III’s and see how straight the string pull is to the tuners. Now look at a picture of a guitar ( or better yet, look at the one’s you own) with winged tuners. You see that? The locking collar adds an extra 16th of an inch or so to the diameter of the post, and guides the strings straighter through the nut, causing less friction.

Who knows, maybe Paul did that sh!t on purpose when designing his “new” headstock ya think?

Third, pull up on the bar after doing a big “dive-n-dump”. This will tighten the strings and resettle the ball ends back to where they were before you depressed the bar. Work that sh!t into your whammy technique! If you’re doing some crazy a$$ whammy theatrics anyway, do some flutters after, or follow up a big string flapping dive bomb by hitting a harmonic and squeal that f@cker up! Besides, you have a good chance of impressing middle aged men and children with that stuff.

Fourth: I you really really wanna whammy and can’t abide by living your life with Allen wrenches... Consider buying an older CU24, Standard, or CE, something before 1995-ish.

PRS changed the pitch of the headstock a litter after the release of the McCarty. The intent was to improve tone by putting more downward pressure on the nut, but it also resulted the strings wanting to stick in the nut more.

PRS has also gradually changed how their nuts were cut. If you look at earlier nuts closely you’ll see that the strings sit deeper in the slots to prevent them from popping out.



Yeah, it’ll take a change of routine to live life without tools and having to clamp and cut your your strings, but for me it was totally worth it.
 
I guess I have better luck than most keeping my trem equipped PRS in tune, it’s as easy for me as I remember (it’s been 25+ years since I’ve owned one) as my Floyd type guitars.

First, your nuts gotta be good. I’ll use the next size up string to widen the slots a bit on most guitars, and if there’s anything else that’s worse going on with it, I’ll fold a small piece of fine-ish sandpaper and hit only the sides of the string slots of the nut. I’ll also rub a little pencil lead in the slots and on the bottom of the strings the first ten times or so when getting a new guitar.

Second, and this is a big one that y’all goof on me for: Winged Phase I tuners.

Look at your headstock with Phase II’s and III’s and see how straight the string pull is to the tuners. Now look at a picture of a guitar ( or better yet, look at the one’s you own) with winged tuners. You see that? The locking collar adds an extra 16th of an inch or so to the diameter of the post, and guides the strings straighter through the nut, causing less friction.

Who knows, maybe Paul did that sh!t on purpose when designing his “new” headstock ya think?

Third, pull up on the bar after doing a big “dive-n-dump”. This will tighten the strings and resettle the ball ends back to where they were before you depressed the bar. Work that sh!t into your whammy technique! If you’re doing some crazy a$$ whammy theatrics anyway, do some flutters after, or follow up a big string flapping dive bomb by hitting a harmonic and squeal that f@cker up! Besides, you have a good chance of impressing middle aged men and children with that stuff.

Fourth: I you really really wanna whammy and can’t abide by living your life with Allen wrenches... Consider buying an older CU24, Standard, or CE, something before 1995-ish.

PRS changed the pitch of the headstock a litter after the release of the McCarty. The intent was to improve tone by putting more downward pressure on the nut, but it also resulted the strings wanting to stick in the nut more.

PRS has also gradually changed how their nuts were cut. If you look at earlier nuts closely you’ll see that the strings sit deeper in the slots to prevent them from popping out.



Yeah, it’ll take a change of routine to live life without tools and having to clamp and cut your your strings, but for me it was totally worth it.


And, just in case you need proof that Segio's method actually works, I present video proof from the man himself..... :p:p

 
I


Look at your headstock with Phase II’s and III’s and see how straight the string pull is to the tuners. Now look at a picture of a guitar ( or better yet, look at the one’s you own) with winged tuners. You see that? The locking collar adds an extra 16th of an inch or so to the diameter of the post, and guides the strings straighter through the nut, causing less friction.

Who knows, maybe Paul did that sh!t on purpose when designing his “new” headstock ya think?

I had to check this, and yes Sergio's observation is correct. The man knows his wings :cool: Never noticed that difference. Must admit I never looked that close either :D,
 
I was going to ask about tuning stability but felt a bit scared asking about that on this forum.

So far I haven't really had much luck getting noteworthy tuning stability from the several CU24 I had/have, including a Private Stock one.
The PS had binding on the G string (and maybe B too) but also extremely rough slots which definitely weren't helping wound strings be stable even with lubricant. I left the benefit of the doubt on biding (maybe caused by not playing the guitar for a while), but the rough nut slots didn't become rough from sitting unplayed in a case :p

In contrast the Strat guitar I built with 2-point Wilkinson VS100N tremolo, locking tuners, and GraphTech TUSQ XL nut returns perfectly to pitch on every single string even dive-bombing on the trem bar. That required a lot of work on the nut by making sure there was no binding (easy), carefully sanding the slots with 2000 grit until I could no longer feel the slightest friction sliding a string cut off into each slot, and finally putting lubricant for good measure. Achieving that tuning stability on a 3x3 tilted headstock design with a tremolo seems far more challenging.

So really, how stable are your tremolo-equipped PRS ? How many cents are we talking about to be deemed stable ?
 
My custom 24s stay in tune as well as my Floyd Rose equipped guitars. IME, the key things are to get the nut slots opened up and smoother out a bit and to get the strings stretched out really well when you first put them on.
 
My custom 24s stay in tune as well as my Floyd Rose equipped guitars. IME, the key things are to get the nut slots opened up and smoother out a bit and to get the strings stretched out really well when you first put them on.

Agreed, though it sounds like you had to do that after receiving the guitar, just like I did.
I would think that at the price point of a Core or PS the nut would be opened up and slots buttery smooth without having to buy a set of files, sandpaper and potentially ruin the nut myself.
Just trying to understand if my out-of-the-box experience so far with 3 Core (decent but not exceptional stability) and 1 PS (went completely out of tune with the slightest trem use) is the norm, or I'm just being extremely unlucky (possible).
 
What I recommend is switching to NYXL strings as they were locked in almost right away, didn’t really need to stretch them. Very stable and solid strings.
 
I am a CU24, guy and here is what I do to make tuning better, not perfect. Its not a Floyd so there are trade offs. I have four core PRS 3 cu24's and 1 SCT all with trems.

My method is -
- good strings
- everything is clean
- Big Bends nut sauce in the grooves of the nut
- good set up
- before you play stretch each string numerous times with big two hand bends at the 12th
- tune up to pitch only
- play and retune play and retune

Yes it will still require retuning with big bar movements, but with normal playing and accent bar work it holds very well.

That’s what I do too except for the BB Nut Sauce. I don’t stretch the strings numerous times either. Elixirs.009 gauge works for me.
 
I was going to ask about tuning stability but felt a bit scared asking about that on this forum.

So far I haven't really had much luck getting noteworthy tuning stability from the several CU24 I had/have, including a Private Stock one.
The PS had binding on the G string (and maybe B too) but also extremely rough slots which definitely weren't helping wound strings be stable even with lubricant. I left the benefit of the doubt on biding (maybe caused by not playing the guitar for a while), but the rough nut slots didn't become rough from sitting unplayed in a case :p

In contrast the Strat guitar I built with 2-point Wilkinson VS100N tremolo, locking tuners, and GraphTech TUSQ XL nut returns perfectly to pitch on every single string even dive-bombing on the trem bar. That required a lot of work on the nut by making sure there was no binding (easy), carefully sanding the slots with 2000 grit until I could no longer feel the slightest friction sliding a string cut off into each slot, and finally putting lubricant for good measure. Achieving that tuning stability on a 3x3 tilted headstock design with a tremolo seems far more challenging.

So really, how stable are your tremolo-equipped PRS ? How many cents are we talking about to be deemed stable ?


I wonder how it would be if that Graph Tech Tusq xl was in a PRS. Its really all about the nut with tuning stability and the trem...
 
So really, how stable are your tremolo-equipped PRS ? How many cents are we talking about to be deemed stable ?

Uhh... 0 cents? I mean 98% of the time (that’s a guess) my strings go back to where they were on my Core guitars and on my SE’s with upgraded hardware and Core nuts.

I don’t have my Korg tuners set to strobe or anything, but I do play with another guitarist (who also plays a PRS now, thank god) and I double on keys in my band. My keyboards are all digital (unfortunately) so there’s no oscillator drift, and I tune once before practice usually, and I’m good to go for a couple of hours at least.

Now, I’m no longer doing dive bombs, but I am doing a ton of wiggles an’ stuff. But yesterday after reading this thread and thinking about it, I went upstairs and did a pile of bottomed-out-string-flapping dives on my totally stock 2015 Santana, and the sh!t came back “in tune”. I didn’t check with a tuner or anything, just played some open chords and the guitar was still in tune with its self...

I don’t know what to say... I got 99 problems but an out of tune trem equipped guitar ain’t one. :)
 
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Uhh... 0 cents? I mean 98% of the time (that’s a guess) my strings go back to where they were on my Core guitars and on my SE’s with upgraded hardware and Core nuts.

I don’t have my Korg tuners set to strobe or anything, but I do play with another guitarist (who also plays a PRS now, thank god) and I double on keys in my band. My keyboards are all digital (unfortunately) so there’s no oscillator drift, and I tune once before practice usually, and I’m good to go for a couple of hours at least.

Now, I’m no longer doing dive bombs, but I am doing a ton of wiggles an’ stuff. But yesterday after reading this thread and thinking about it, I went upstairs and did a pile of bottomed-out-string-flapping dives on my totally stock 2015 Santana, and the sh!t came back “in tune”. I didn’t check with a tuner or anything, just played some open chords and the guitar was still in tune with its self...

I don’t know what to say... I got 99 problems but an out of tune trem equipped guitar ain’t one. :)

Sounds like I should grab my nut files and sandpaper then.
0 cents is what I get on my Strat build, even dive bombing.
2-4 cents on the CU24s is what I get without having done any additional work on the nut since delivery (PS was way worse).
 
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