Tuning Stability (McCarty 594)

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by pallajt, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. alantig

    alantig Zombie Four, DFZ

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    Yep, you've got it. Finger tighten, then about another 1/8-1/4 turn usually will lock them right in. I saw that you were familiar w/other lockers, these really aren't much different than, say, Schallers, except they lock from the front instead of the back.
     
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  2. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    Re-strung, stretched, re-intonated. Been practicing for about two hours. The guitar is now behaving exactly as you would expect a guitar with new strings to behave. So far so good.

    They cut the strings so tight to the post at the factory that I pricked a finger removing the strings. Every new guitar needs blood before it will play for you!
     
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  3. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    Awesome! Let us know how she olds up at gig. Good luck.
     
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  4. Warmart

    Warmart Fani PRSi

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    I impale myself 93.26% of the time whenever changing strings. Blood everywhere! Aaahhh
     
  5. alantig

    alantig Zombie Four, DFZ

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    So it wasn’t the fresh strings but the human sacrifice that did it?

    Glad to hear it’s playing well for you.
     
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  6. Bill SAS 513

    Bill SAS 513 Just another old guy in a T-shirt

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    Just a small heads-up...when I first changed a set on Phase III's, I finger-tightened, then a little extra turn with a coin,
    and while stretching, broke the High E immediately. Take it easy when doing this, as too much torque can/will
    damage the strings at the tuner, especially the high, unwound ones. I just hand-tighten now.
     
    #86 Bill SAS 513, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  7. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    Will do. Thanks.
     
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  8. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    It's funny. I SWEAR that every guitar I've ever owned has drawn blood from me the first time I changed strings. They're nasty little machines that must be fed before they'll work. :eek:
     
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  9. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    Thanks. As I noted above, I've swapped out lockers on practically every guitar I've owned, particularly the ones who see a lot of work. Schaller/Gotoh/Kluson...used 'em all. I finger-tightened them and then gave them each a quarter turn. Good enough.
     
    #89 Nurk2, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  10. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    I’m not a wrap guy either but my 594 still not staying in tune like id like. Use 10’s as well:
    2 questions please:
    1) when you change strings, do you turn hole on tuner so that it’s lined up straight down the neck, pointing directly to the nut, or did you say you turn the tuner away at an angle? I line mine up so all pointing straight down neck, string goes straight in
    2) Guitar designed for 10’s which i use, but is there an absolute go to string brand you use on all? If so, please share. Thanks.
     
  11. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    Strings always wind around the post on the side of the middle of the headstock.

    I use D'Addarios 10-46 Nickel-Wound because they're cheap, reliable, and easy to find. I go through a lot of strings.

    Although signs are positive, I'm not certain that I'm out of the woods yet. Let me say this, though, stretching is really critical to tuning stability. Often I think people stretch 'em a little, strum a little, and then say "good enough."

    When I change strings, I put the new set on, and then using the strobe setting on a TU-2 bring them all up to pitch. I hold each string down with my left hand around the 7th fret and with my right give it a few good pulls, then bring it back up to pitch. I do this a couple times on each string the first time through.

    Then I do all the strings again. And then I do it again. After three or four passes they're holding pretty good so at that point I check and adjust the intonation if needed, all the while doing finger bends and pulls and re-tuning. After a some playing time they usually settle in pretty good.

    TL;DR - New strings have a ton of slack, which requires a lot of stretching to get them stable.
     
  12. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    Per Mozzi post, I think he’s saying he doesn’t wrap, he angles hole toward middle of headstock as you mentioned and locks it down. I wouldn’t consider that a wrap.
    Do you angle it right to the middle, say 3:00?
     
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  13. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    I do the same for all locking tuners: Bring the string straight in from the nut, lock it, and tune to pitch. The angle of the hole doesn't matter nor does the wrap. The lockers are holding the string. The point of contact for the string is the post, irrespective of where the hole is.

    The only time I worry about locking or bending the string at the post is when I'm wrapping a string around a non-locking tuner.

    Then, the process is straight in from the nut. Pull it back about a fret for extra string for the wrap. Bend the string at the post toward the middle of the headstock, then wrap it under itself and bend it over itself toward the center of the headstock (that's your lock), then wrap around the post each wrap going beneath the one before it.
     
    #93 Nurk2, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  14. shinksma

    shinksma What? I get a title?

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    So as a completely useless anecdote, my 594 SH has been just fine, tuning stability wise, during two and a half months ownership. Tune once (maybe not even required), usually to account for very minor tuning drift due to weather/temp changes, if even that, and it's good all night long.

    It still has the factory strings on it (AFAIK), which are probably over 7 months old now, and sat in the dealer store for a few months before I acquired it.

    That's exactly what I do, on the rare occasion I change strings. I play regularly, gigging twice or three times a month, practicing twice a week, plus noodling, and I change a string (or the whole set, depending) maybe twice a year across my entire guitar collection.

    I honestly cannot fathom what is "wrong" with those 594s that are giving you guys tuning stability issues. :shrug:
     
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  15. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

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    I do exactly like you do in #1. As for strings, I've been using Elixr Optiwebs for the last couple of years. My fingers react better to the coated strings.
     
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  16. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

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    Glad to hear it!
     
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  17. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    It's mileage, not time, that kills strings (though, obviously, even unplayed strings eventually become dead). I'm lucky to a month out of the strings on my main work guitar, but I average at least a couple hours a day. The acoustic sees far less play so I only change them before shows if it's a score that calls for acoustic.
     
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  18. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

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    The holes are in line with the strings - so pointing towards the nut when I restring. Its then locked down and tuned so the string ends up on the 'inside' of the post - the side furthest away from the keys and closest to the PRS Signature so you get the straight string pull - you don't want the string going to the outside. My guitar tuners are between a 90 degree angle with the 'hole' in the tuners (Parallel to the nut) and 180 degrees when tuned.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    These aren't Pics of my guitars, they come from PRS's site (https://www.prsguitars.com/index.php/support/article/phase_locking_tuners) but it could of been. These illustrate the point that there is no wrap. In both pics, when tuned, the string is going into the hole somewhere between 90 and 180degrees from when you start - at 180degrees, the cut end would be pointing at the nut and in these examples, its not quite that far. Not one is more than 180 degrees from its starting position and these are Official PRS Pics too.

    It also illustrates what I mean about the string being on the inside (closest to the signature, not the tuning key) to get the straight string pull and the first pic illustrates the hole and the string being pulled through before locking the nut down and tuning.

    Tuning instability is caused by things moving when they shouldn't or not moving when they should - assuming you have stretched your strings properly after restringing. There is nothing that should move - the string is locked down at the tuner and no wraps to slip or move. The only other thing is the nut - friction causing it to not return after a bend for example. You can often tell if a nut is a bit 'sticky' because you get a 'ping' when tuning as the tension overcomes the friction so the string 'pings'.

    A Floyd Rose system is so rock solid because it eliminates any 'friction' points - the locking nut and locking saddles are the same principal as a locking tuner - it grips the string so it doesn't move but with other guitars, the nut is a friction point as are the saddles which can stop the string from returning perfectly to pitch. Straight string pull greatly reduces that friction - which is why Gibson are renown for tuning instability. The 594 has a bone nut too so its not a self lubricating nut so maybe your nut slots aren't as 'smooth' as they could be? I doubt the tuner is loose and moving and the same goes at the bridge end too so unless you are not locking the string down properly or not stretching the string thoroughly, I would try looking at getting some nut sauce and/or checking the nut...
     
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  19. Nurk2

    Nurk2 Should you be practicing right now?

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    It was the dead strings. Worked all weekend. No probs. Going into production tonight for the first show of the season ("Grease" - Easy peasy).
     
  20. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

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    Glad to hear it
     
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