Tuning Stability (McCarty 594)

[pallajt]

At this point I really don't want to swap the tuners but your suggestion for my luthier to lightly sand and lubricate could help. I don't mind goin to 9's but it came with 10's and I've read that's how they come from the factory, set up for 10's. It seems like 9's would make it slip even more but I'll do anything at this point to have the guitar stay in tune. SO freakin annoying. I have several guitars but my Les Paul 59 Custom re-issue and my Clapton Custom Shop strat stay in tune so well it's incredible. Can play many many songs without tuning and no worries. With my 594 as i've said, I have not confidence with it staying in tune and literally need to re-tune every song. Sucks. thank you.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest switching string gauge; I only mentioned it as a reference point for how I'm set up. That said, when I switched from the stock 10's to 9's, all I did was raise the bridge EVER so slightly (not even a quarter turn on each side) and I was good to go. I agree, I was super annoyed early on because I loved everything else about the guitar. Now that I've solved the tuning issues I barely put it down. Good luck.

FYI - here it is in action:

 

[Summer]

You guys sound great man. Cool vibe. I pulled the LT from my bridge and put in a 58/15 for a little more kick, a bit hotter and I've been happier with the sound but that's just me. I have a Private Stock Custom 24 with 85/15's and I love those pickups. Probably my favorite but 594, Les Paul and P Stock get equal playing time. Love it, fortunate to have em. Playin thru a Fractal AX8 that's my favorite piece of equipment ever, outside of my guitars of course. Can edit for each song/gig if need be. That thing will do everything. Great hobby for me, will play as long as I can . Appreciate it. Happy Sunday.

 

[Summer]

I never have any wrap at all on my strings - I line the hole up with the nut so the string straight through the hole, pull taught and tighten the screw to lock down the string then tune up to pitch. I have literally no string wrapping - the amount I need to tune up literally means the hole is no more than 90 degrees to the nut so its only touching the post on the edge of the hole. I have heard of those that do drop wrapping a bit more round the post so they can slacken the string down for drop tuning but its really unnecessary to have any wrap at all.

The majority of the 'force' at the tuner is on the edge of the hole and its not a 'straight' pull on the string where it is locked in by the Screw. Turning the tuner so the hole is not in line with nut reduces the force at the screw because its not in line anymore. I hope that makes sense - most of the force on the string is now pulling on the post, the edge of the hole. Its much easier to pull something through a hole if the hole and cord/cable/string/rope etc is in line with the hole but turn the hole (or change the angle of the cord so its not in line with the hole) and you need much more effort and pulling force to over come the angle of force and friction where the cord is touching the edge of the hole.

As for tightening the screw, Its literally finger tight using a coin rather than really aggressive and potentially cutting into the string creating a weak spot that breaks. The locking mechanism hasn't failed me on any of my 5 Core PRS guitars, all of which have the Phase 3 Locking tuners and not one has any 'wrap' at all on the string. 3 of mine do have the floating Gen 3 trem bridge too and the other has the wrap around Piezo bridge so the only one with the Tune-O-Matic type bridge is my 594. All my strings (apart from the Hollowbody with the Piezo bridge that has 11's with a wound G) are 10's and either D'addrio NYXL's or Ernie Ball Paradigms (although I do think I will be replacing my strings with All Nickel). Whether that makes a difference in the amount of stretching I need to do or the tuning stability, I don't know but I can only comment about my own experience and string gauge/type I use.

I have never had a string pull out and the locking screw has always been enough for me. i have had my 594 for a few years now and I have never had any issue with either the tuner or tuning stability once the strings have settled. I rarely have to do more than one pass (that's up and down the string) and a good hard strum test - at most, the strum test may need a small tweak and then repeat the strum test to see if it now stays in tune and if not, a 2nd pass of stretching but I have rarely had to do a 2nd pass and the vast majority of the time, just the stretch is enough because it stays in tune after the first hard strum test. I don't do more than a tone bend, at least very rarely and often go through a set of strings without ever bending more than a tone (maybe a bit more with some vibrato on the tone bend but never a tone and a half bends).

Anyway, I can only comment on my experience with my 594 (as well as my other PRS guitars - although they do have different nuts and bridges) and the string gauge/brand I have used. In any case, I hope you find a solution. I doubt that a bit more wrap (although not a 'full' wrap) would be the issue so maybe try some nut lube and/or try and determine where things are moving or sticking. As for the tuners, you may need to tighten them up (maybe they are moving) and as for 'wrapping', PRS themselves do the pull through taught, tighten up the locking screw and tune up to pitch with no wraps and, if you find pictures of the headstock where you can clearly see the string and tuner, you will generally see no wraps at all and the string is only touching the edge of the hole - not even a quarter wrap.

I bought a new DC core 594 last June and it's not staying in tune very well. Not awful, just annoying enough to have to tune way too often. Love the guitar, hate the tuning. My Les Paul and Clapton Strat hardly every come out of tune. I've watched several videos and read alot and some guys wrap, others don't and just run it thru and cut it like you. This particular 594 is currently wrapped so maybe I'll restring it and just run it thru the slot and cut it. I use 10 gauge NYXL also but may try the new PRS brand. I just need the darn thing to stay in tune. Appreciate your input. good day.

 

[RickP]

I bought a new DC core 594 last June and it's not staying in tune very well. Not awful, just annoying enough to have to tune way too often. Love the guitar, hate the tuning. My Les Paul and Clapton Strat hardly every come out of tune. I've watched several videos and read alot and some guys wrap, others don't and just run it thru and cut it like you. This particular 594 is currently wrapped so maybe I'll restring it and just run it thru the slot and cut it. I use 10 gauge NYXL also but may try the new PRS brand. I just need the darn thing to stay in tune. Appreciate your input. good day.

I'm surprised to see folks having tuning issues on their 594s. Both of mine have been ridiculously stable at home and on the gig. I have done the combination of the loop-back-and-under lock along with locking tuning machines on the unwound strings, just as a "belt and suspenders" method of avoiding slippage. Trying it with a different brand of strings is a worthwhile test, as well. Something is definitely off if it isn't stable, these things are super steady.

 

[pallajt]

I'm surprised to see folks having tuning issues on their 594s. Both of mine have been ridiculously stable at home and on the gig. I have done the combination of the loop-back-and-under lock along with locking tuning machines on the unwound strings, just as a "belt and suspenders" method of avoiding slippage. Trying it with a different brand of strings is a worthwhile test, as well. Something is definitely off if it isn't stable, these things are super steady.

Fortunately, as I mentioned my tuning issues are now in the past. Love the guitar.

 

[Summer]

I'm surprised to see folks having tuning issues on their 594s. Both of mine have been ridiculously stable at home and on the gig. I have done the combination of the loop-back-and-under lock along with locking tuning machines on the unwound strings, just as a "belt and suspenders" method of avoiding slippage. Trying it with a different brand of strings is a worthwhile test, as well. Something is definitely off if it isn't stable, these things are super steady.

Played a gig Saturday nite and I tuned after almost every song. It normally needed it, sometimes not alot but WAY more than it should. Awkward as band awaits my freakin tuning. I can play my Les Paul for hours without even checking it and it's rock solid. LOVE the tone and feel of this 594 so won't put it down but I gotta get it to stay in tune. Paul himself of course swears by guitars needing to stay in tune. Not messing with the nut, quite a rabbit hole other than maybe some lube. This is a 2019 core and they are Phase III PRS locking tuners so I guess still the best they make. Let me know if otherwise. If you had to try a different string other than the NYXL which would you go with? thx man.

 

[Summer]

Fortunately, as I mentioned my tuning issues are now in the past. Love the guitar.

So per our previous communication, just to clarify, you are wrapping, switched to 9's and changed the action just slightly. Is that correct? I'll try anything at this point because like all of us feel, these 594's are awesome. Just need the tuning to settle in.

 

[RickP]

Played a gig Saturday nite and I tuned after almost every song. It normally needed it, sometimes not alot but WAY more than it should. Awkward as band awaits my freakin tuning. I can play my Les Paul for hours without even checking it and it's rock solid. LOVE the tone and feel of this 594 so won't put it down but I gotta get it to stay in tune. Paul himself of course swears by guitars needing to stay in tune. Not messing with the nut, quite a rabbit hole other than maybe some lube. This is a 2019 core and they are Phase III PRS locking tuners so I guess still the best they make. Let me know if otherwise. If you had to try a different string other than the NYXL which would you go with? thx man.

I put Elixir 10s on everything I play, so they went on there too. I'm not exaggerating when I say I never have to tune during a set on my 513s or now on my 594s, which I just recently began gigging. My co-guitarist in the band is constantly bowing out of songs to re-tune his guitars (no PRS) but I just play and play. The only time I recall having to watch the tuning was playing outdoors in colds temps, but I think that is unavoidable due to hand heat/metal strings/etc. Otherwise, it's basically maintenance free.

 

[Summer]

I put Elixir 10s on everything I play, so they went on there too. I'm not exaggerating when I say I never have to tune during a set on my 513s or now on my 594s, which I just recently began gigging. My co-guitarist in the band is constantly bowing out of songs to re-tune his guitars (no PRS) but I just play and play. The only time I recall having to watch the tuning was playing outdoors in colds temps, but I think that is unavoidable due to hand heat/metal strings/etc. Otherwise, it's basically maintenance free.

You are very fortunate. While I won't stop playing during a song, on Saturday I tuned after every single song and it sucked. I told our singer to BS a bit to give me the time. Sucks. Not off by much, but enough to be really annoying and take away your confidence. I'll take you guys suggestions, one of which will be buying some Elixir's tonite. Can't hurt to try. Appreciate it.

 

[RickP]

You are very fortunate. While I won't stop playing during a song, on Saturday I tuned after every single song and it sucked. I told our singer to BS a bit to give me the time. Sucks. Not off by much, but enough to be really annoying and take away your confidence. I'll take you guys suggestions, one of which will be buying some Elixir's tonite. Can't hurt to try. Appreciate it.

One thing for sure, a new set of Elixirs (properly stretched and played in for a bit, of course) will eliminate strings from your equation. And they last longer, to boot!

 

[RickP]

Fortunately, as I mentioned my tuning issues are now in the past. Love the guitar.

Very glad to hear that! Perhaps you can help escort @Summer to clearer waters too!

 

[Timmy]

Played mine for about a week with the original 10s that were on it - no tuning issues, stayed in tune well.
Set it up with the usual Elixir 9-46 - same, no tuning issues.
I don't wrap on the tuners either, just line up the hole, gently pull taut and lock.

 

[Summer]

Played mine for about a week with the original 10s that were on it - no tuning issues, stayed in tune well.
Set it up with the usual Elixir 9-46 - same, no tuning issues.
I don't wrap on the tuners either, just line up the hole, gently pull taut and lock.

cool. Thanks a lot.

 

[shinksma]

My 2019 594 SH (DC version) has the stock strings on it (well, I assume so, unless the dealer swapped them for some reason) - I got it just last month, and I generally don't change strings very often - like never, unless I break one.

It has been rock-solid in tuning. Like all my PRSi. Heck, I picked up my CU24 (with trem) a couple days ago, which I hadn't played in months (and months, possible more than a year), and without adjusting anything it sounded fine - all it needed was a slight retune "down" about a quarter step or less, pretty evenly across all strings.

I do wonder whether tuning stability is related to "bad" batches of strings. I dunno what else it could be, since there isn't much to "go wrong" with locking tuners and a fixed bridge, provided you don't "wrap". Maybe a mis-cut or damaged nut? (It could happen, I suppose, in shipping or in getting played [abused] at the guitar shop before being sold.)

@Summer , maybe just try the stock PRS strings, or the previous standard stock D'Addario 10-46 strings?

EDIT: I should mention that when I tune up prior to practice or a gig, I rarely have to re-tune during the gig or practice - the only event in the last few months where I can recall having to retune a couple times was when we were playing outside in rapidly cooling temps with rain coming and going (and we were slightly exposed to it) - I was playing my P245SH (i.e. fixed bridge). And those were minor tuning tweaks, not major issues.

 

[Summer]

My 2019 594 SH (DC version) has the stock strings on it (well, I assume so, unless the dealer swapped them for some reason) - I got it just last month, and I generally don't change strings very often - like never, unless I break one.

It has been rock-solid in tuning. Like all my PRSi. Heck, I picked up my CU24 (with trem) a couple days ago, which I hadn't played in months (and months, possible more than a year), and without adjusting anything it sounded fine - all it needed was a slight retune "down" about a quarter step or less, pretty evenly across all strings.

I do wonder whether tuning stability is related to "bad" batches of strings. I dunno what else it could be, since there isn't much to "go wrong" with locking tuners and a fixed bridge, provided you don't "wrap". Maybe a mis-cut or damaged nut? (It could happen, I suppose, in shipping or in getting played [abused] at the guitar shop before being sold.)

@Summer , maybe just try the stock PRS strings, or the previous standard stock D'Addario 10-46 strings?

EDIT: I should mention that when I tune up prior to practice or a gig, I rarely have to re-tune during the gig or practice - the only event in the last few months where I can recall having to retune a couple times was when we were playing outside in rapidly cooling temps with rain coming and going (and we were slightly exposed to it) - I was playing my P245SH (i.e. fixed bridge). And those were minor tuning tweaks, not major issues.

I didn't have time to play practice last nite but did look at my guitar and it is wrapped. I've always used the NYXL's and like them, 10 gauge. I'll break open a fresh pack and re-string without the wrap and see if that does the trick. The 594 nut was cut for 10's and I'm fine with that so really don't want to try 9's. Yea at our gig last weekend it was embarrassing. We play some heavier tunes with alot of distortion that can cover up alot but last weekend we played a few lighter tunes/almost acoustic sounding that really really required perfect tuning (as all songs should) and I was slippin on almost every song. Inside a club, temps fine, no big deal so no reason there to jump out of tune. I'll try this and hope it helps. Thanks for everyone's tips. Appreciate it.

 

[Nurk2]

The McCarty 594 is my first PRS guitar. I've been my doing own setups and guitar work for a long time (a couple decades), and always replace the stock tuners with lockers. I've never had a problem with tuning stability. I mean, super-stable, tune-after-the-set-is-over type stability.

This guitar is ridiculously unstable. I can't even predict whether a string will go flat or sharp. It's constant. I've been playing it for a couple weeks now, stretched 'em repeatedly (these are the strings that came with it, from the shop). I'm thinking maybe the strings are hosed. There is no discernible binding at the nut.

I'm going to try a new set of my regular (D'Addario 10's) tonight, and use my regular method of stringing. Let's see if this makes a difference. I have two events this weekend and go into production on a new show Monday night. It better work.

Also, I'm not familiar with the "Phase III-whatever-whatever" tuners. Is there some trick to using them? It looks like you loosen the string, back out the thumb screw, put in the new string, tighten the thumbscrew and go from there?

 

[Summer]

The McCarty 594 is my first PRS guitar. I've been my doing own setups and guitar work for a long time (a couple decades), and always replace the stock tuners with lockers. I've never had a problem with tuning stability. I mean, super-stable, tune-after-the-set-is-over type stability.

This guitar is ridiculously unstable. I can't even predict whether a string will go flat or sharp. It's constant. I've been playing it for a couple weeks now, stretched 'em repeatedly (these are the strings that came with it, from the shop). I'm thinking maybe the strings are hosed. There is no discernible binding at the nut.

I'm going to try a new set of my regular (D'Addario 10's) tonight, and use my regular method of stringing. Let's see if this makes a difference. I have two events this weekend and go into production on a new show Monday night. It better work.

Also, I'm not familiar with the "Phase III-whatever-whatever" tuners. Is there some trick to using them? It looks like you loosen the string, back out the thumb screw, put in the new string, tighten the thumbscrew and go from there?

TRUST ME. I feel your pain. My last three PRS guitars are still not very reliable. No where close to staying in tune like my Les Paul, my Suhr and my Fender Custom Shops. All the confidence in the world in those guitars. Whenever I play my PRS guitars I'm always on edge and tune constantly and I've tried everything like you said. My Private Stock barely stays in tune. Of the 4 I have, my 2018 594 stays in tune better than any of the other three. Not sure why, either great nut or locking tuners doing there job. Still can't believe a P Stock isn't reliable but whatever. Here is my suggestion: send it back to PRS and have them upgrade the nut to the best nut they make. I sent my P Stock back due to poor tuning and they got it right on third try with some super duper nut. Not perfect, but at least it's playable now where it wasn't before. Real pain shipping it back but that's what I'd suggest, or send it to Phillip McKnight at Know Your Gear. He's awesome. When you send it back, if it's new, they'll send the label and should be free but it will be gone for awhile as you know they are swamped. Paul has repeated over and over that a guitar HAS TO STAY IN TUNE which of course we all know, but I really like that he's hip to that and really cares. Anyway, my guess is they have a better nut that will help you. I cold be wrong but it finally worked on my P Stock. Not sure which one they installed but now it's playable. Good luck man. Like I said, been there many times. Sucks.

 

[Nurk2]

TRUST ME. I feel your pain. My last three PRS guitars are still not very reliable. No where close to staying in tune like my Les Paul, my Suhr and my Fender Custom Shops. All the confidence in the world in those guitars. Whenever I play my PRS guitars I'm always on edge and tune constantly and I've tried everything like you said. My Private Stock barely stays in tune. Of the 4 I have, my 2018 594 stays in tune better than any of the other three. Not sure why, either great nut or locking tuners doing there job. Still can't believe a P Stock isn't reliable but whatever. Here is my suggestion: send it back to PRS and have them upgrade the nut to the best nut they make. I sent my P Stock back due to poor tuning and they got it right on third try with some super duper nut. Not perfect, but at least it's playable now where it wasn't before. Real pain shipping it back but that's what I'd suggest, or send it to Phillip McKnight at Know Your Gear. He's awesome. When you send it back, if it's new, they'll send the label and should be free but it will be gone for awhile as you know they are swamped. Paul has repeated over and over that a guitar HAS TO STAY IN TUNE which of course we all know, but I really like that he's hip to that and really cares. Anyway, my guess is they have a better nut that will help you. I cold be wrong but it finally worked on my P Stock. Not sure which one they installed but now it's playable. Good luck man. Like I said, been there many times. Sucks.

Wow. That's crazy. Send it back for a new nut? Holy crap. I've always replaced stock nuts with Graphtech. Might that not be a simpler solution in this case?

 

[RickP]

I’ve come back to this thread several times already. It almost makes me feel guilty. I own and gig 4 PRS guitars right now (2 x 513 and 2 x 594) and have owned at least that many others in the past. Tune once, play the whole set... every single PRS I’ve ever gigged. My guitar playing partner uses primarily Fender and Gibson and has to tune every third song.

Sad to see you guys struggling. I hope you identify the problem. Being out of tune is no fun.

 

[Summer]

WAY WAY beyond my capability so I can't answer that. I'd never personally (just me talking) attempt to replace a nut especially on a $7,000 guitar which is why I kept sending it back and had them do it. Shipping and work was all free, guitar was under warranty. Wasn't about to attempt myself. I learned a ton about how important a nut is on a guitar regarding the ability to stay in tune and it's key as you probably know. I string like you do, no wrap. Just pull it tight, run it thru locking tuner hole, lock it down and snip excess. Some guys wrap, alot don't. I've had better luck with no wrap. Stretch the crap out of the strings of course. I don't think your problem is with the strings. You need their new Phase III locking tuners with a killer nut and that's about all you can do.