Tuning Stability (McCarty 594)

[ViperDoc]

When I string my 594s, I put it through the hole, pull it flacid, screw down the lock and clip the ends. I don't knot-tie my strings ever. Tune it to pitch, stretch it a couple times, spank it, and play. Tuning stability in spades. If there is a particular string that is having trouble, you might check the tuner or nut for proper conditions. Also consider how your guitar is being stored, unless it's going out of tune as you're playing. Bridge saddles ok? String barrels snugged in the right position on the bar? Are you standing too close to a wormhole or intergalactic vortex of space and time? Just covering all the bases...

 

[pallajt]

Maybe that’s all you gotta do? I haven’t had much bad luck with the Phase IIIs (even though they’re not my favorites) keeping tune. Usually I just need to stretch once, aggressively strum for a minute, and bring ‘em back up into tune.

Ironically, I believe Phase III’s are Gotoh tuners.

They very well could be. I didn't mean the brand so much as the style - my Gotoh vintage locking tuners are obviously very different from these, and in my opinion superior.

 

[pallajt]

I'm back down off the ledge for the moment. I did a bit more string stretching before bed last night and have been putting the guitar through some playing paces since getting home from work today, and so far so good.

 

[bodia]

When I string my 594s, I put it through the hole, pull it flacid, screw down the lock and clip the ends. I don't knot-tie my strings ever. Tune it to pitch, stretch it a couple times, spank it, and play. Tuning stability in spades. If there is a particular string that is having trouble, you might check the tuner or nut for proper conditions. Also consider how your guitar is being stored, unless it's going out of tune as you're playing. Bridge saddles ok? String barrels snugged in the right position on the bar? Are you standing too close to a wormhole or intergalactic vortex of space and time? Just covering all the bases...

This is exactly how I do it as well. Never had a tuning problem on anything but an SE, but that was before installing locking tuners.

Hope you get it sorted out.

 

[pallajt]

When I string my 594s, I put it through the hole, pull it flacid, screw down the lock and clip the ends. I don't knot-tie my strings ever. Tune it to pitch, stretch it a couple times, spank it, and play. Tuning stability in spades. If there is a particular string that is having trouble, you might check the tuner or nut for proper conditions. Also consider how your guitar is being stored, unless it's going out of tune as you're playing. Bridge saddles ok? String barrels snugged in the right position on the bar? Are you standing too close to a wormhole or intergalactic vortex of space and time? Just covering all the bases...

That's what I'm missing - thanks. Just so we're clear, what is the "it" in "spank it"?

 

[Stephen L Hardy]

I recently purchased a new 594 with the new tweakable Phase III tuners with the dual set screws on the collars & I was having tuning problems too. The tuners shafts were very loose, so I suspected they were slipping. I finally located an Allen wrench that fit the set screws & was able to tighten the collars which tightened up the shafts. That fixed the problem & it stays in tune much better now. Prior to tightening the collars, I lubed the nut with graphite grease & stretched the strings ad nauseum, which didn’t help. The wrench size is .89mm & the cheapest I could one was online at Chads Toolbox, made by Bondhus I believe. 29 cents per wrench + $6 shipping. Bondhus appears to be the only manufacturer of this size wrench.

BTW...the Phase III tuners are definitely made by Gotoh & some of the worst I’ve ever used. That’s who told me the wrench size & wanted to sell me one for $3 + handling + shipping for a tiny Allen wrench. They’re very rough (not smooth over the full travel) after adding tension on the collars. I have stock, non-locking Klusons with the plastic Keystone buttons on a Historic Les Paul & custom shop 335 that are much smoother than the Phase IIIs & they don’t slip. I had an original McCarty, a Custom 22 & an SC250. All of those guitars had rock solid tuning & is one of the reasons I bought 594 online without playing it first. PRS guitars have a standard of excellence unbefitting these tuners. Yeah they look cool with the open back & low mass, but.......... It’s a sad day when a Les Paul & a 335 have smoother & better tuning stability than a PRS.

Some other info on this forum in a thread I started suggests using a .035 or 9mm wrench. I’ve tried both sizes from a wrench set made by Tekton, but they’re not a good fit. The Bondhus .89mm is perfect, with no wiggle room to strip out the screw heads.

 

[dmatthews]

Stupid question of the week...
The bridge is easily put on backwards... did you remove it, or did it fall off during string change?
My 594 soapy is solid as a rock for tuning, fo sho...

 

[ViperDoc]

That's what I'm missing - thanks. Just so we're clear, what is the "it" in "spank it"?

It depends on your style of playing, but when you put it through the hole and check the nut for proper conditions, all seems to work out just fine. Your call, buddy!

 

[pallajt]

I recently purchased a new 594 with the new tweakable Phase III tuners with the dual set screws on the collars & I was having tuning problems too. The tuners shafts were very loose, so I suspected they were slipping. I finally located an Allen wrench that fit the set screws & was able to tighten the collars which tightened up the shafts. That fixed the problem & it stays in tune much better now. Prior to tightening the collars, I lubed the nut with graphite grease & stretched the strings ad nauseum, which didn’t help. The wrench size is .89mm & the cheapest I could one was online at Chads Toolbox, made by Bondhus I believe. 29 cents per wrench + $6 shipping. Bondhus appears to be the only manufacturer of this size wrench.

BTW...the Phase III tuners are definitely made by Gotoh & some of the worst I’ve ever used. That’s who told me the wrench size & wanted to sell me one for $3 + handling + shipping for a tiny Allen wrench. They’re very rough (not smooth over the full travel) after adding tension on the collars. I have stock, non-locking Klusons with the plastic Keystone buttons on a Historic Les Paul & custom shop 335 that are much smoother than the Phase IIIs & they don’t slip. I had an original McCarty, a Custom 22 & an SC250. All of those guitars had rock solid tuning & is one of the reasons I bought 594 online without playing it first. PRS guitars have a standard of excellence unbefitting these tuners. Yeah they look cool with the open back & low mass, but.......... It’s a sad day when a Les Paul & a 335 have smoother & better tuning stability than a PRS.

Some other info on this forum in a thread I started suggests using a .035 or 9mm wrench. I’ve tried both sizes from a wrench set made by Tekton, but they’re not a good fit. The Bondhus .89mm is perfect, with no wiggle room to strip out the screw heads.

Mine came with a little baggy with a couple different wrenches in it, so I'm guessing one of those will fit. Though it says on the website "Set screws must NOT be adjusted outside of the PRS factory. Making any adjustments to this feature may cause the tuner to stop functioning properly." I'll have to have a look at the bushing nuts to see if they need tightening.

 

[shimmilou]

I thought it was "tweaked", not "tweakable".

 

[Stephen L Hardy]

Mine came with a little baggy with a couple different wrenches in it, so I'm guessing one of those will fit. Though it says on the website "Set screws must NOT be adjusted outside of the PRS factory. Making any adjustments to this feature may cause the tuner to stop functioning properly." I'll have to have a look at the bushing nuts to see if they need tightening.

I assumed the same thing with the bag of wrenches that came with mine, but none came close to the tiny .89mm size wrench.

PRS tech support instructed me in writing on how to adjust the collars for added tension. They never mentioned anything about causing them to not function properly if adjusted.

 

[Stephen L Hardy]

I thought it was "tweaked", not "tweakable".

Wow, you're very astute! Thanks so much for contributing to this thread.

 

[shimmilou]

Glad to help. Improving ones comprehension skills can save much heartache in the future.

 

[bodia]

BTW...the Phase III tuners are definitely made by Gotoh & some of the worst I’ve ever used. That’s who told me the wrench size & wanted to sell me one for $3 + handling + shipping for a tiny Allen wrench. They’re very rough (not smooth over the full travel) after adding tension on the collars. I have stock, non-locking Klusons with the plastic Keystone buttons on a Historic Les Paul & custom shop 335 that are much smoother than the Phase IIIs & they don’t slip. I had an original McCarty, a Custom 22 & an SC250. All of those guitars had rock solid tuning & is one of the reasons I bought 594 online without playing it first. PRS guitars have a standard of excellence unbefitting these tuners. Yeah they look cool with the open back & low mass, but.......... It’s a sad day when a Les Paul & a 335 have smoother & better tuning stability than a PRS.

Man, not my take on the Phase III, at all. I've had them on more than guitars than I care to admit, and even put them on 2 different SEs, and two project CE 24s. I've never had an experience like yours. Perhaps it's the new collar. I am appalled by the old style Klusons. Just goes to show, each to his own.

 

[TwelfthTangent]

You guys are doing it all wrong! You play the guitar until it gets to the point of needing new strings...and then you go buy another guitar.

 

[pallajt]

I assumed the same thing with the bag of wrenches that came with mine, but none came close to the tiny .89mm size wrench.

PRS tech support instructed me in writing on how to adjust the collars for added tension. They never mentioned anything about causing them to not function properly if adjusted.

Would you mind sharing what they sent you on how to adjust the collars/set screws? Would be curious to see - thanks!

 

[Summer]

Having the same problem. Got my core DC 594 last summer and while i really like it, it's not staying in tune well. Not acceptable and Paul is always talking about how important it is for all PRS guitars to stay in tune as we know. No brainer. I have to tune after almost every song and it's awkward as the band waits on me but it's imperative. I use 10's, NYXL. I have an incredible luthier in my area and I'm gonna let him re-string it this week. He certainly know's PRS guitars but and cliff note suggestions I might suggest to him? Also, should I try a different brand string? Have never tried the PRS strings. Other suggestions appreciated. thank you.

 

[pallajt]

Having the same problem. Got my core DC 594 last summer and while i really like it, it's not staying in tune well. Not acceptable and Paul is always talking about how important it is for all PRS guitars to stay in tune as we know. No brainer. I have to tune after almost every song and it's awkward as the band waits on me but it's imperative. I use 10's, NYXL. I have an incredible luthier in my area and I'm gonna let him re-string it this week. He certainly know's PRS guitars but and cliff note suggestions I might suggest to him? Also, should I try a different brand string? Have never tried the PRS strings. Other suggestions appreciated. thank you.

Mine's been much, much better lately. I (very, VERY gently) filed and sanded/polished the nut slots, just to make sure they were smooth/clean, and used a bit of lubricant in the slots. I've got it strung so each string wraps around the post somewhere between 3/4 of a wrap and 1 wrap. I also made sure to use a coin/screwdriver to tighten the locks a LITTLE bit beyond finger-tight. I'm using 9's (Ernie Ball Slinkys) and the guitar is holding tune very well. I can usually make it through a 45-60 minute set without having to stop to tune. That said I have a few other guitars on which I've installed Gotoh vintage-style locking tuners and I still find those to be superior to the PRS Phase III.

 

[alantig]

Having the same problem. Got my core DC 594 last summer and while i really like it, it's not staying in tune well. Not acceptable and Paul is always talking about how important it is for all PRS guitars to stay in tune as we know. No brainer. I have to tune after almost every song and it's awkward as the band waits on me but it's imperative. I use 10's, NYXL. I have an incredible luthier in my area and I'm gonna let him re-string it this week. He certainly know's PRS guitars but and cliff note suggestions I might suggest to him? Also, should I try a different brand string? Have never tried the PRS strings. Other suggestions appreciated. thank you.

Hard to say w/o knowing what's going on. Are the strings going sharp or flat? After bends, normal playing, etc.? Do you get pinging at the nut when tuning?

Forgive the basic questions, but you are stretching the strings fully, right? Locking the tuners tightly enough?

 

[Summer]

At this point I really don't want to swap the tuners but your suggestion for my luthier to lightly sand and lubricate could help. I don't mind goin to 9's but it came with 10's and I've read that's how they come from the factory, set up for 10's. It seems like 9's would make it slip even more but I'll do anything at this point to have the guitar stay in tune. SO freakin annoying. I have several guitars but my Les Paul 59 Custom re-issue and my Clapton Custom Shop strat stay in tune so well it's incredible. Can play many many songs without tuning and no worries. With my 594 as i've said, I have not confidence with it staying in tune and literally need to re-tune every song. Sucks. thank you.