Trying to break a bad picking habit.

[Mike J.]

Been trying to work on increasing my picking speed and it just ain't hapening. Watched a bunch of videos to see how these folks are utilizing their picking hands and i noticed how steady their thumb and index fingers are while holding a pick. Got in front of a mirror with my guitar to watch my picking hand and it's a totaly mess.

I've been aware of this for a while but it really hit me today. May be hard to explain but......I'm double jointed in both of my thumbs. When I pick, it's like all of the picking movement comes from my thumb and index finger. There's a lot of excessive motion. Plus, my thumb at the joint is going up and down, up and down.
It actually looks rather ridiculous. It bends at the joint when I down pick and it bends up when I up pick.

Even watched a video of someone playing some songs I know. Example, "Love Me Two Times" by the Doors. The guy's picking hand/thumb were real steady. Looked at my hand in the mirror while playing it and there's my thumb going down and up, down and up. Again, too much motion.

Anyone else here double jointed in their thumbs and if so do you have this problem? I don't know if I can break this bad habit or not.

For years I never had much time to practice due to work. Finally retired in March of 2020 which gives me more time to practice. I play at church, I'm 71 years old and trust me, I'm not trying to compete with anybody. Just want to be the best player I can with what God gave me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[WingerRules]

I used to be double jointed in my left thumb only. It was an advantage when playing guitar back in the day. But I got it jammed and sprained so many times playing basketball, thst it stopped being double jointing years ago.

However, I can pick pretty fast and I’d be glad to help if I can. I’d like to see video so I can make suggestions, if you’d like

 

[Mike J.]

I used to be double jointed in my left thumb only. It was an advantage when playing guitar back in the day. But I got it jammed and sprained so many times playing basketball, thst it stopped being double jointing years ago.

However, I can pick pretty fast and I’d be glad to help if I can. I’d like to see video so I can make suggestions, if you’d like

Thanks! I appreciate it! I'll make a video on my phone sometime and will try sending it to you. Hopefully before too long.

 

[WingerRules]

Thanks! I appreciate it! I'll make a video on my phone sometime and will try sending it to you. Hopefully before too long.

Feel free to PM me if you want to send it via YouTube or even just direct to my phone. I'm not a pro, but I'll be glad to help any way I can.

 

[WingerRules]

Thanks! I appreciate it! I'll make a video on my phone sometime and will try sending it to you. Hopefully before too long.

Lola's bump reminded me that I owe you a video! Our last conversation was right when we were leaving for a camping trip and not talking since then made me forget about this. I'll get on that right away.

 

[Mike J.]

Lola's bump reminded me that I owe you a video! Our last conversation was right when we were leaving for a camping trip and not talking since then made me forget about this. I'll get on that right away.

No problem! We had a bad storm roll through Michigan on Tuesday that knocked power out in a lot of the south eastern portion of the state.
Storm seemed to come out of nowhere with 80 mph winds in areas. My power went out at 5:31 PM on Tuesday and was finally restored today (Thursday) at 10:00 AM.

I got a decent sized generator with the most important essentials wired into the transfer box. So it's not like I was doing without power completely. (Been there, done that before!). Internet was down as well and was restored around noon today.

(What?? No internet for almost 3 days!! Oh, the horror!!). It was actually kinda nice not to be distracted by it.

As far as practicing, I'm just getting back into it. Spent the prior 3 weeks trying to spruce up my front deck and it turned into a lot more work than I had anticipated. Now I'm getting a jump on the next five church songs for next Wednesday's practice.

So no big rush!

 

[WingerRules]

No problem! We had a bad storm roll through Michigan on Tuesday that knocked power out in a lot of the south eastern portion of the state.
Storm seemed to come out of nowhere with 80 mph winds in areas. My power went out at 5:31 PM on Tuesday and was finally restored today (Thursday) at 10:00 AM.

I got a decent sized generator with the most important essentials wired into the transfer box. So it's not like I was doing without power completely. (Been there, done that before!). Internet was down as well and was restored around noon today.

(What?? No internet for almost 3 days!! Oh, the horror!!). It was actually kinda nice not to be distracted by it.

As far as practicing, I'm just getting back into it. Spent the prior 3 weeks trying to spruce up my front deck and it turned into a lot more work than I had anticipated. Now I'm getting a jump on the next five church songs for next Wednesday's practice.

So no big rush!

Glad you're at least partially back up and running. I'm heading out of town for the weekend so maybe next week we'll resume.

 

[Mike J.]

Glad you're at least partially back up and running. I'm heading out of town for the weekend so maybe next week we'll resume.

Thanks! Yup, I'm alive and kicking here! Fact is I just went on YouTube to see how bad the storm was. Yikes! Over 221,000 customers were out of power and over 1,000 lines were down! While some areas got slammed my area is okay. Lots of smaller branches down. Better than a tree falling on your house as some did.

This outage was a picnic compared to some other ones. Around 2004 a wind sheer came through my area and I was without power for 8 days.
Didn't help that I didn't have a generator back then. That was a long week. Can't complain because there was no damage to my house.

Again, take your time buddy. Enjoy your weekend!

 

[Bogner]

Repetition Is The Mother Of All Skill. (Good Or Bad).

While Some Habits Are Hard To Break It Can Be Done. I Can't Comment From Experience On The Double Jointed Aspect But I Am Happy To Share A Few Things That Might Could Help In Some Way.

Do You Anchor Your Hand (Usually Pinky) When You Pick Or Are You More Free Handed?
In Your Picking Do You Have A Lot Of Finger Movement? Wrist Movement? Elbow Movement?

How Is The Overall Tension In Your Picking? Does It Increase As You Increase Speed Or Difficulty In What You Are Picking?

How Is Your Pick Angle?

How Much Of Your Pick Is Hitting The String? *How Deep Are You Into The String You Are Picking?

Do You Down Pick Or Alternate Pick Or Both? Is One Better Than The Other For You? If So, Which One And Why?

Knowing These Things Can Help Me To Help You (Hopefully) In How You May Approach Some Things.

Just From My Experience I became More Efficient At Picking One Note. How Fast Can I Pick One Note? Sounds Simple (And It Somewhat Is) But That Economy (When Multiplied) Is The Crux Of Everything You Are Talking About. We All Pick Different Way And Have Our Own Techniques. Unless Your Technique Is Horrendously Off I Would Imagine It Could Be Tweaked To Some Degree And Be A Big Improvement For You Without Reinventing The Wheel. The Right Pick, Thickness, Material, Angle, Hand Position, Tension, Etc All Add Up To How Fast And Efficient You Can Play That One Note And Eventually String Multiple Notes Together. I Worked A Long Time On These Things And It Made A Major Difference For Me.

Once I Became Better With That I Began Working On Economy From Implementing Other Strings And On The Efficiency Of Those Movements. For Example...If I Am Picking The D, G, B Strings In A Downward Motion Am I Able To Pick Them Smoothly And Efficiently Like A Very Slow Strum Or Am I Picking Them Each Very Individually. I Was Picking Then Each Very Individually As Fast As I Could But There Was Much Tension And A Lot Of Hurry In Doing So. When I Practiced And Improved It Was Far Less Tension And Much More Efficient,Cleaner And Faster To Do It In One Fluid Motion....(Think A Very Slow Strum Rather Than A Pluck Pluck Pluck Caveman Type Thing...) (Hopefully That Makes Sense?) Simple Patterns Like That Practiced Over Time Wad Very Helpful To Me To Get Me Started. It Didn't Really Matter To Me What Notes Were Being Fretted (Played) As I Was Working On My Right Hand Technique. Once I Was Better And Introduced My Left Hand It Naturally Seemed Like I Had More Time To Get That Note And My Hands Were Able To Sync Up A Bit More Smoothly Due To my Better Right Hand (Picking Hand for Me) Efficiency.

I Found It Better For Me To Work On This For A Few Minutes A Day Everyday That For An Hour At A Time Once Per Week. Eventually The New Habits Formed And I Improved And The More I Played That More The New Habits Took Over My Playing. If I Felt Myself Reverting Back I Would Stop And Go Back To The Fundamentals To Build And Enforce The New Habits And Break The Old Ones. Eventually This Will Go Over To Your Fretting Hand As Well And You Will Begin Working On Your Economy With That. At One Time I Made A Conscious Decision To Try To Play Without Looking Like I Am Playing At All. As Little Movement As Possible With Both Hands. That Exposed A Lot Of Tension In Both Hands That I Needed To Work On. Gripping The Neck Too Tight And Flying Fingers When It Comes To Note Changes Is Not Fast Or Efficient And It Taught Me A Lot. I Learned I Was Overgripping Things And Even Fretting Notes Too Hard Or Harder Than I Needed To. Again, It Was Helpful To Me And Didn't Take A Lot Of Time To Begin Seeing Results.

I Apologize For The Lengthy Post But Wanted To At Least Set Some Foundation Point That Helped Me And Maybe It Will Help You And Or Somebody Who May Read It. I Can Elaborate Much More But Without Knowing Where You Are At And What Your Approach Is It May Be Futile So I Will Refrain For Now. If I Can Help In Any Way, I Am Happy To Try To Do So.

I Am Not Sure Of All The Styles You Play And What You Are Specifically After But A Few Players Who Have Impacted Me Technique Wise And May Be A Help To You Are Jack Pearson, Yngwie Malmsteen, James Hetfield,

Watch How His Technique Tightens Up On The Fast Parts

This Is Interesting For Various Observational Purposes On Technique And Sound

Simple But Helpful Perhaps

 

[Mike J.]

Bogner, sorry I haven't responded back sooner. Been a bit busy with other things. I'm now sitting down with my guitar while going over your thread.

Picking hand position. I tend to anchor it on the bridge when picking. Not anchored at all when strumming.

Picking hand movement. Here's the problem and I know it. All the motion comes from my thumb and index finger. When I downstroke, this double jointed thumb of bends down at the joint. When I up stroke the thumb bends up at the joint. No matter what I try I cannot keep my thumb in a solid position. I've even tried wrapping tape around the joint area to keep my thumb in a straighter position. (This is all alternate picking motion). I've noticed there seems to be very little wrist motion when picking.

Overall tension in the picking hand. Doesn't seem too bad unless I try to play faster than I seem capable of. My wrist of my paicking hand seems to tense up very quickly when I try to "step on the gas" so to say. I will also start to get some discomfort in the middlw of my hand as well. Keep in mind I'm 71 years old and 30 of my working years were spent as a CNC machinist. Lots of heavy work involving my hands. Normally my hands are fine. No pain what so ever but all my fingers feel a tad bit stiffer these days. But it's midly noticable.

Pick angle. It's at a slight downward angle. I'm guess about 20 degrees.

How much of the pick is hitting the string. Looks like about 1/8 of an inch.

How deep into the string does your pick go. Seems a bit erratic. Sometimes when alternate picking.....on the downstroke, the pick seems to go as deep as 1/4 of and inch. But on the upstroke it's much less. But again, it's erratic.

Do I down pick, alternate or both. I tend to downpick when playing slower lines but when things start speeding up its alternate. There's some wrist movement and no elbow movement. But again, there's a lot of movement from the thumb and index finger. Mainly the thumb.

That's about it bud. Thanks so much for your help! Truly appreciate it!

 

[archtop]

Best compliment I've ever received was "you're the only guitar player I've played with who can play slow".

 

[Bogner]

Bogner, sorry I haven't responded back sooner. Been a bit busy with other things. I'm now sitting down with my guitar while going over your thread.

Picking hand position. I tend to anchor it on the bridge when picking. Not anchored at all when strumming.

Picking hand movement. Here's the problem and I know it. All the motion comes from my thumb and index finger. When I downstroke, this double jointed thumb of bends down at the joint. When I up stroke the thumb bends up at the joint. No matter what I try I cannot keep my thumb in a solid position. I've even tried wrapping tape around the joint area to keep my thumb in a straighter position. (This is all alternate picking motion). I've noticed there seems to be very little wrist motion when picking.

Overall tension in the picking hand. Doesn't seem too bad unless I try to play faster than I seem capable of. My wrist of my paicking hand seems to tense up very quickly when I try to "step on the gas" so to say. I will also start to get some discomfort in the middlw of my hand as well. Keep in mind I'm 71 years old and 30 of my working years were spent as a CNC machinist. Lots of heavy work involving my hands. Normally my hands are fine. No pain what so ever but all my fingers feel a tad bit stiffer these days. But it's midly noticable.

Pick angle. It's at a slight downward angle. I'm guess about 20 degrees.

How much of the pick is hitting the string. Looks like about 1/8 of an inch.

How deep into the string does your pick go. Seems a bit erratic. Sometimes when alternate picking.....on the downstroke, the pick seems to go as deep as 1/4 of and inch. But on the upstroke it's much less. But again, it's erratic.

Do I down pick, alternate or both. I tend to downpick when playing slower lines but when things start speeding up its alternate. There's some wrist movement and no elbow movement. But again, there's a lot of movement from the thumb and index finger. Mainly the thumb.

That's about it bud. Thanks so much for your help! Truly appreciate it!

No Worries My Friend. I Will Grab A Guitar And Go Back Over What You Said And Try To Mirror Your Explanations And See What I Can Come Up With To Help. It May Take Me A Bit But I Promise I Will Respond.

 

[Mike J.]

No Worries My Friend. I Will Grab A Guitar And Go Back Over What You Said And Try To Mirror Your Explanations And See What I Can Come Up With To Help. It May Take Me A Bit But I Promise I Will Respond.

No worries bud. I'm busy with other things and I'm sure you are as well.

One of my favorite lines: Life is what happens when you're making other plans.

 

[DISTORT6]

Best compliment I've ever received was "you're the only guitar player I've played with who can play slow".

That’s an insult in my world.

 

[Bogner]

That’s an insult in my world.

Is Blues Chug A Thing?

I Didn't Think So Either...

 

[gush]

Lola's bump reminded me that I owe you a video! Our last conversation was right when we were leaving for a camping trip and not talking since then made me forget about this. I'll get on that right away.

I'd love to see the video as well.

 

[Bogner]

Sorry For The Delayed Response. I Have Been Doing A Lot Of Thinking And Have A Few Ideas. There Are A Couple Of Things Happening From What I Gather And I Think Corrections Could Have A Domino Type Effect, Even If Small To Help Some Things All Around. Some Points To Ponder Are Noted Below.

1. How You Hold Your Pick (Non Pick Holding Fingers Curled Under Like A Fist Or Are They Extended Out Straight?
2. Palm Muting VS. Pinky Anchoring VS. Free Hand (Think Strumming)
3. Pick Thickness, Pick Shape (Related To The Part Of The Pick Hitting The String)

I Mention These As I Had Trouble At One Point In My Early Playing Years And Encountered Some Problems From A Domino Effect That Piggy Backed Off Of A Few Things. Maybe Looking At These Things Will Help Along With My Original Post To Unlock Some Things. I Feel Once That "Thing" Is Unlocked A Few More Things Will Fall Into Place And Really Help. The Numerics I List below Are In Relation To The Numerics Of The Point I Made Above So The Numbers Coincide.

1) I Initially Held A Pick Pretty Flat And My First Finger And Thumb Were Essentially Pointing Forward Together In The Same Direction. Imagine The Thumb And First Finger As The Top Line Of A T And The Pick Point Being The End Of The Bottom Line Downward Forming The T (Think Linear). A Lot Of Pick Exposed And Easy To Drop Or Lose While Playing Or Strumming Hard. This Led Me To Trying Thinner Picks To Not Get Hung Up As The Pick Would Flex And Jump From String To String Easier. I Initially Thought This Was Great As I Was Dropping The Pick Less And Not Getting Hung Up On Strings As Much. I Was Way Too Deep Into The String And Not Economical At All Which In Some Ways Made The Problem Worse, Not Better. If I Wasn't Picking Deeper Into The String The Thin Pick Was Too Nimble. I Masked One Problem And Created Another Set Of Issues. Once I Sorted Out These Things I Was Far More Comfortable, Less Tense And More Efficient And Could Better Work On Fundamentals As Things Became Far More Predictable And Consistent For Me.

2. Anchoring My Pinky Helped Me To Reel In My Picking Hand Movement. That Could With The Use Of A Thick Pick And Not Being Too Deep Into The String Did A Lot OF Things For Me And Tightened Things Up So To Say. If I Was Too Deep Into The String I Was Hung Up. If I Wasn't Anchoring My Pinky Things Were Off Movement Wise And I Was Rushing Things To Due Lack Of Efficiency. This Caused Me To Tighten Up And Eventually Cramp Or Freeze A Bit Which Brought Tension In My Arms And Hands...The Tension From My Picking Hand Would Eventually Lead To Tension In My Fretting Hand, This Happened Quickly When Things Went Wrong And I Was Past My "Playing Shape/Conditioning" So To Speak. Going Back To Anchoring Was Key For Me. When Speed Or Precision Was An Issue I Noticed Back Then That I Was Lifting My Anchor Point And The Tension Was Quick To Follow.

3. Playing With A Heavy Pick And One That Didn't Have Too Much Surface To Get Caught Up On String Connecting Surface Area Was Very Helpful To Me. The Thicker Pick Allowed Me To Get Enough Pick On The String And The Fact It Was A Little More Pointier Prevented Me From Getting Hung Up And Reverting Into Bad Habits To "Catch Back Up" Be Able To Play What I Was Trying To Play. The Thicker Pick Seemed To Lessen The Travel Distance And Time To The Next Thing Being Picked. Using A Thin Pick Back Then Ruined My Picking Economy.

You Mention Your Pick Is Rotated Forward About 20 Degrees So you Are Hitting The String At An Angle. Unless I Am Envisioning This Wrong, That Angle Can't Be Static Based On How You Describe Your Thumb/Finger Movement Shifting Things. Try Bending Your First Fingertip Back Towards The Base Of Your Thumb While The Pick Is Rotated Forward That 20 Degrees. That Will Alleviate Some Movement Options In Those Fingers. Imagine Making A Fist And Then Slowly Extending Your First Finger Forward To Open Up Your Fist but Just On The First Finger And Then Place Your Pick In your Fingers In That Position. That Is A Massive Difference From All Fingers Pointing Forward And You Holding A Pick That Way (As A Reference Point). The First Finger Curled Back More Under The Pick Doesn't Hinder Movement (If Done Correctly) For Picking But It Does Hinder What You Profess Your Problem To Be. Anchoring Your Pinky Helps Even More So. This Also Allows Your Hand To Flex And Move A Bit And Will Reduce Tension In The Hand. It Will Also Free Up Your Wrist A Bit Which Will Also Reduce Tension And Since You Don't Play With Elbow Movement (Some Do...Think Zack Wylde) This Doesn't Interfere With That Either. This Solved A Lot Of Initial Problems For Me And Maybe It Will For You As Well.

I Play Heavy Stuff 90% Of The Time. A Lot Of Downstrokes On The Chug Type Stuff And On The More Melodic Stuff I Use A Lot Of Alternate Picking. I Tend To Pick Almost Everything So These Things I Am Saying Won't Hinder The Ability To Play Faster, Etc. Not That Speed Is Everything Because It Isn't. Let Me Know Your Thoughts With These Things And iF They Potentially Unlock Some Things. Once That Initial Link Is Broken Then The Chains Are Off IMO. It Won't Happen Overnight But It Will Happen Quicker Than One May Think. I Hope This Helps And I Hope I Wrote It Out As Clearly And Consisely As I Thought And Saw It In My Mind.

 

[Mike J.]

Quite a lot here Bogner! I appreciate your taking the time to help me. It's a lot to digest and I'll have to go over it a few times.

I'll tell you one thing I'm not doing and that's keeping my index finger and thumb straight while holding the pick. I've seen guys play that way and it's impossible for me to do that. My hand is how you described as being more of a fist with the index finger going more towards the tip of my thumb.

Did you get my PM I sent last week?

 

[WingerRules]

Quite a lot here Bogner! I appreciate your taking the time to help me. It's a lot to digest and I'll have to go over it a few times.

I'll tell you one thing I'm not doing and that's keeping my index finger and thumb straight while holding the pick. I've seen guys play that way and it's impossible for me to do that. My hand is how you described as being more of a fist with the index finger going more towards the tip of my thumb.

Did you get my PM I sent last week?

I had a little setback (minor cut doing yard work) and won’t be able to do something til next week, probably. Would you prefer me to move our conversation and maybe even the video here?

 

[Mike J.]

I had a little setback (minor cut doing yard work) and won’t be able to do something til next week, probably. Would you prefer me to move our conversation and maybe even the video here?

What ever works best for you is good for me. No worries about the delay either. The rest of this week is fairly booked for me too.

Next week is gonna be pretty busy for me during the day (gonna resume working on my front deck) but the evenings will be chill time.