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Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by Rich5150, Oct 6, 2016.
The C# standard tuning is ideal for Drop B playing. I did not need to see this.
Hey Everyone, I'll leave this comment from Paul here if anyone has scale length questions/concerns.
"Hey everybody, Paul Smith here. So I understand this concern. This is a Mark Tremonti specified C# to C# instrument with larger gauge strings. The argument here is almost like saying if you played a short scale guitar (say 24.5") and it was tuned E to E and you made another guitar with the scale length 25.5" (like a strat) then you should tune the guitar down to C# because it's an inch longer - and that's not the case. There are two ways to accommodate a lower tuned string. 1. Increase the gauge of the string. and/or 2. Lengthen the scale length. Just because people are used to seeing an increased scale length on other maker's guitars doesn't mean that's the only way to do it. Mark has taken this guitar out on tour and it performed powerfully tuned C# to C# with the following gauges of strings: .014-.068. I really like this gauge of string, this tuning, and this guitar. It sounds awesome. It could be argued that a short scale guitar should never be tuned E to E but should be tuned G to G. I personally prefer baritones where you make the gauge of the string much larger and make the guitar with a shorter scale length then the internet thinks is appropriate. Now all that said, we have released tuned-down guitars with longer scale lengths (SE Mark Holcomb 25.5" drop C and an SE 277 27.7"). This is a very interesting situation/discussion involving our guitar making and artist preferences vs. other manufacturers standard vs history. Please be assured this guitar will perform brilliantly C# to C# - as long as you don't put .009's on it : ) ...(by the way, if you listen to "Machine Gun" Band of Gypsys, Hendrix is tuned D to D on a 25.5" scale guitar with fairly light gauge strings. Go figure.)"
@[email protected]: Thanks for presenting Paul's point of view.
As I mentioned before: Obviously it works well this different approach to low tuned guitars.
Just want to say a few things...
1) Jade is SO METAL \m/
2) This guitar is awesome, no matter what you call it
3) I wish PRSh would stop by here and chime in more often!
Cheers to that. Good to hear he addressed the concerns. Kudos to his attention to his market.
Paul rules..... How awesome of him to drop in here!!! (via surrogate, of course!)
Here the guitar is quoted as having "C# to C#" tuning (C# Standard), but is listed as "Drop C#" on the model page. Can you please clarify? Thanks!
I knew they would eventually have a run of the thing, but never thought it would be limited very nice
The model page also says "Guitars will ship tuned to C# [C#, F#, B, E, G#, C#)" in the description, so I think the "Ships in Drop C#" line in the Spec table is a typo.
Probably belongs in another topic but it's relevant here.
For those who don't know, Mark is also working with Paul on a signature PRS amplifier:
I wasn't even aware of this until Mark's rig rundown prior to the Alter Bridge album release stream on Friday night. He said to expect the amp in March 2017. Fast forward to around the 2:12 mark in the link below: (also fast forward to the 5:00 mark for a closer look at the Baritone Hybrid)
Very awesome of Mark to do this. Similar to the way Jim Root (Slipknot) worked with Orange to take a Rockerverb (his amp of choice) and scale it down into his signature amp, the Jim Root Terror. I'll be preordering the amp as soon as it's available. I've been wanting an Archon for a while anyway.
WHOA! That is some news! Can't wait!
Wonder if it's going to be the low-wattage one we've been hearing about. Originally, I thought it would be. But if he's wanting one to use live, it makes me wonder. Personally, I like one for my bedroom.
I'm sure it's the low wattage one that he mentioned in the video above. I take it that he likes PRS amps but let's be honest.... he'a a Mesa/Bogner guy. I know he uses a plethora of amps in the studio (Dual Rectifier, Uberschall, Rev Generator, Archon, etc) but on the road.... Mesa/Bogner.
I assume the only reason for him to do this amp is because he is a PRS artist. I honestly think Mesa would be a better choice for a signature amp. However, as someone who already owns a DR, I'll take a Tremonti PRS amp lol
Or it's possible that he's being lured over here.
I questioned the label of baritone hybrid at first like some others here. After seeing the string gauge, it makes more sense to me as those are definitely strings that you might see on a baritone. Tack on hybrid and it does make more sense. You could pretty easily tune down to B or drop A with this guitar too. Cool limited run.
Yeah 14-68 is a bit on the thick side for Drop-B, just IMHO of course, but I am ALL FOR MORE 25.5" SCALE PRS!!!! I would actually love to see some USA core line production 25.5" scale doublecut and singlecut offerings in the future. Either way, this model is a great addition and I think more metal-inspired PRS options can only be a good thing, but I might be a little bit biased!
Posted this in the General Discussion thread as well - but in this video at around 5 minutes in, Tremonti shows his in Drop C with an 11-62 set. Which means the Core model is basically tuned only a half step lower (from drop C to C# to C#), but the bottom string goes from 11 to 14 gauge.
That's it, I am convinced. If Paul says it is so, it is so. I am going to put some old skipping ropes on my Strat and have me a baritone guitar!
Well, this is from wikipedia, so it must be true , but here is the definition of a baritone voice:
And although someone quoted something from the wikipedia entry for "Baritone guitar" in the other thread in General Discussion, the part I would like to present is (my bold for emphasis):
A regular standard guitar is tuned E2 to E4.
So comparing guitar to voice, the terminology for the guitar is off anyway (assuming the operatic/choral definition is considered the older baseline). A normal guitar starts out lower, at E2, than a baritone choral voice at F2!
So in my opinion, calling a guitar that is intended to be tuned to C# standard a "Hybrid Baritone" because it is lower than a regular guitar in E std but still a bit higher than a "baritone" guitar in B std is fine by me.
And yes, putting thicker strings on a strat goes a long way towards a baritone (guitar). Why not? If I took off the high-e string on my PRS SE-7 and tuned the G string to F#, I would, in effect, have a 6 string baritone tuned in B. And that is a 25" scale.
Thank you for your considered and well thought out response. My comment was intended to be a light-hearted humorous view on the reaction to this guitar but I think you got that
To me bari-tone means low-key - as in from below middle C. "Bari" not being too dissimilar from the latin word "bassus" or the french "bas" or in intalian "bassa", Spanish "baja". To define baritone as a type of male singing voice seems quite wrong to me. There are many instruments capable of playing in the baritone register, and they are called as such. What would a female singing in F2-F4 be? A baritonette? And as the adopted standard tuning for guitar is E2-E4 it could be argued that we already have a baritone guitar anyway.
Guitarists have been putting fat strings on their regular scale length guitars and down-tuning for years. Does not have to be 27-28" or whatever. Just as you don't need to be eight feet tall to be a baritone singer or a dwarf to sing soprano.
Cool looking guitar anyway. That jade model looks fabulous in the photographs.
Yeah, I knew you were joking around. And I didn't mean to get all pedantic, although it looks like I did, I suppose, I just started looking up terms to verify to myself of what I wanted to type, and ended up getting all citation-y.
Curiously, the "classical" categories (as presented by wikipedia) do not include a female voice that goes that low. The lowest is Contralto, F3 to F5, which puts it about one octave up from a regular guitar.
Which I suppose was part of my dissertation - the "classical" classifications are somewhat strict but on the other hand are also arbitrary, perhaps only useful for the traditionalists in those genres...
Yeah, that jade...has me green with envy. I need another green guitar, and since I have a CU24 in Emerald Green, that means Jade, Leprechaun's Tooth, Evergreen, and Eriza Verde, plus all the fades, are looking very appealing right now...