Tone in my head.

[fender1punk]

I finally found the perfect compliment to my Standard 24. For some reason with my other rigs, it always sounded so lifeless. My SE's and my S2 were screamers through my Mesa and Marshall amps, but didn't have the same neck feel. I was ready to give up and pull the pickups when I tried pairing it to an Orange head at the local shop. Holy hell! It was like the cobwebs were finally cleared. She was finally alive and kicking. Just an amazing tone.

 

[Boogie]

Rule #6: The amp is more important than the guitar for sound.

Glad you found your sound!

 

[aphantomvaper]

I disagree and believe the tone starts with the guitar. However agree it's awesome to find "that" tone in your head! Very nice.

 

[BrianC]

The amp is more of a factor for tone by far than the guitar.

I have had maybe 15 core PRS and 10 different amps. If you play numerous guitars out of one amp there are differences yes, but on guitar through numerous amps you get a huge variant.

 

[veinbuster]

Rule #6: The amp is more important than the guitar for sound.

Glad you found your sound!

In hindsight, my guitar sounded mediocre until I got my Mark III. Then after a few days of fiddling knobs, I sounded like I wanted to.

 

[WEDGE]

I have sold a crapload of guitars when I was younger because they sounded bad, and then realized I had a crappy amp. Some real good playing guitars in that lot that I wish I had back.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Rule #6: The amp is more important than the guitar for sound.

Glad you found your sound!

Agree! And, I know I've said this here before, but IMO, somewhere around the same level of importance as the amp is the speaker. A guy I buy from with over 30 years experience working in a music store and gigging, once told me that if you find the speaker that's best for you, every amp you play will sound more like you want it too, so even the ones that are "close" will sound good to you. But if you use the wrong speaker, even the perfect amp for you won't sound that great.

I learned this the hard way. Everything seems to come with V30s these days and I have 3 versions currently, and don't love any of them. My Archon and ATMA sound best through my Dr. Z cab with 1 Warehouse ET65 and one V30. My other two 2x cabs (PRS and Mesa) have 2 V30s. My Thiele EM12 sounds very good as well. But even getting one V30 out for something else in the Z and it's suddenly my favorite cab. Over the next few days, I'm replaceing the V30 in it with a Warehouse ET90. I expect that to be even better!

 

[Daniel Elam]

I have one guitar that sounds amazing no matter what it’s plugged into and that’s my Duo Jet.

 

[László]

In the world of guitar amps, there's a sliding scale at work. The cleaner you go, the greater the role of the guitar, and the dirtier you go, the greater the role of the amp. There isn't a fixed break point, instead there's a continuum in which the guitar predominates at first, and then the amp takes over as distortion increases.

In other words, arguing about which is more important, amp or guitar, is to aim at a moving target.

One needs to qualify whether you're talking clean or dirty, and where on the spectrum between clean and dirty you're listening. And because different pickups drive amps differently, even similar guitars with different pickups will sound different.

The guitar is crucial because it's your base tone. But that's just for starters.

The amp is crucial even clean, because it colors whatever guitar is run through it, so it more or less has the 'last word' on the tone. Even so called 'clean' amps typically have more than 10% distortion, and the distortion runs much higher when the gain is increased. If you've never run a guitar direct into a recording rig or hi fi amp, you've never heard a truly clean guitar tone. To me, a direct signal without an amp sounds pretty awful (but George Harrison and some of the funk players might disagree).

At very high gain, much of the guitar's tone is obscured by the amp clipping - this turns the sine waves into square waves. Square waves eliminate true high end, exaggerate low end, but a clipped tube also generates its own harmonics. These harmonics give you high frequencies, but that's mainly amp, not so much guitar.

A fuzz box is a square wave generator, and so is a very highly distorted tube amp. I'd bet it would be difficult for anyone to identify exactly which guitar is used on a recording to generate the signal for a fuzz box without knowing in advance.

Thus the amp tone takes over completely at some point on the distortion continuum, which is why (for example) people thought Page's guitar in the first Led Zeppelin album was a Les Paul, when in fact it was a Telecaster. It's very difficult to identify what model of guitar is making an extremely dirty sound.

Played clean, I agree that the guitar rules. Played dirty, I think the amp rules.

Everyone gets to be right!!

 

[GuitarJammin]

Different guitars may bring out different things in different amps. I find a few of my guitars I don't like on certain amps tonal wise yet those same guitars will excel on different amps. Typically a guitar that is darker tone wise can really bring good stuff out of a bright amp. While a bright guitar can wake up a dark amp.

All that said....speakers...speakers...speakers..lol. They are where the signals hit the air after all. I keep lots of cabs and speakers around for sure so when I want to get to a certain place I get there.

 

[AP515]

It makes sense that you would like the combination of the Standard and an Orange amp. The standard is missing the maple cap so it will be heavy in mids. The orange is a very bright amp so it will emphasize whatever highs that are coming out of the pickups. The amp makes the standard sound like the other guitars which is what you hear in your head.

And Rule #6 Rules!

 

[Tim S]

In the world of guitar amps, there's a sliding scale at work. The cleaner you go, the greater the role of the guitar, and the dirtier you go, the greater the role of the amp. There isn't a fixed break point, instead there's a continuum in which the guitar predominates at first, and then the amp takes over as distortion increases.

In other words, arguing about which is more important, amp or guitar, is to aim at a moving target.

One needs to qualify whether you're talking clean or dirty, and where on the spectrum between clean and dirty you're listening. And because different pickups drive amps differently, even similar guitars with different pickups will sound different.

The guitar is crucial because it's your base tone. But that's just for starters.

The amp is crucial even clean, because it colors whatever guitar is run through it, so it more or less has the 'last word' on the tone. Even so called 'clean' amps typically have more than 10% distortion, and the distortion runs much higher when the gain is increased. If you've never run a guitar direct into a recording rig or hi fi amp, you've never heard a truly clean guitar tone. To me, a direct signal without an amp sounds pretty awful (but George Harrison and some of the funk players might disagree).

At very high gain, much of the guitar's tone is obscured by the amp clipping - this turns the sine waves into square waves. Square waves eliminate true high end, exaggerate low end, but a clipped tube also generates its own harmonics. These harmonics give you high frequencies, but that's mainly amp, not so much guitar.

A fuzz box is a square wave generator, and so is a very highly distorted tube amp. I'd bet it would be difficult for anyone to identify exactly which guitar is used on a recording to generate the signal for a fuzz box without knowing in advance.

Thus the amp tone takes over completely at some point on the distortion continuum, which is why (for example) people thought Page's guitar in the first Led Zeppelin album was a Les Paul, when in fact it was a Telecaster. It's very difficult to identify what model of guitar is making an extremely dirty sound.

Played clean, I agree that the guitar rules. Played dirty, I think the amp rules.

Everyone gets to be right!!

Nice observation (as always — I always enjoy your posts and usually walk away smarter having read them)

What’s common between the continuum of Clean Guitar and Dirty Amp is what moves the air — the cabinet and speaker(s) and perhaps microphone.

Overall, when I look at the quality of tone & sound, I follow the sound chain in reverse. From microphone/ear to the components on the guitar and apportion the responsibility for tone in that ranked order. There can be exceptions due to exceptional equipment, but as a rule of thumb it works for me.

 

[László]

Different guitars may bring out different things in different amps. I find a few of my guitars I don't like on certain amps tonal wise yet those same guitars will excel on different amps. Typically a guitar that is darker tone wise can really bring good stuff out of a bright amp. While a bright guitar can wake up a dark amp.

All that said....speakers...speakers...speakers..lol. They are where the signals hit the air after all. I keep lots of cabs and speakers around for sure so when I want to get to a certain place I get there.

Nice observation (as always — I always enjoy your posts and usually walk away smarter having read them)

What’s common between the continuum of Clean Guitar and Dirty Amp is what moves the air — the cabinet and speaker(s) and perhaps microphone.

Overall, when I look at the quality of tone & sound, I follow the sound chain in reverse. From microphone/ear to the components on the guitar and apportion the responsibility for tone in that ranked order. There can be exceptions due to exceptional equipment, but as a rule of thumb it works for me.

Guys, these are excellent points!

After all, the transducers - mic & speakers - are the final translators of signal into sound waves we can actually hear. Bright guitars match up nicely with dark amps, and vice-versa, though I also feel that many guitarists often don't use their tone and volume controls as well as they might; the guitar's controls also affect brightness and gain.

You probably do this already. I use the guitar's controls to shape my tone a ton. Another tool in the tone arsenal. I'm always surprised when players tell me they just max out the guitar's controls and leave them that way.

 

[vchizzle]

Agree! And, I know I've said this here before, but IMO, somewhere around the same level of importance as the amp is the speaker. A guy I buy from with over 30 years experience working in a music store and gigging, once told me that if you find the speaker that's best for you, every amp you play will sound more like you want it too, so even the ones that are "close" will sound good to you. But if you use the wrong speaker, even the perfect amp for you won't sound that great.

I learned this the hard way. Everything seems to come with V30s these days and I have 3 versions currently, and don't love any of them. My Archon and ATMA sound best through my Dr. Z cab with 1 Warehouse ET65 and one V30. My other two 2x cabs (PRS and Mesa) have 2 V30s. My Thiele EM12 sounds very good as well. But even getting one V30 out for something else in the Z and it's suddenly my favorite cab. Over the next few days, I'm replaceing the V30 in it with a Warehouse ET90. I expect that to be even better!

Lemme know if you’re selling any British V30’s.

 

[Black Plaid]

In hindsight, my guitar sounded mediocre until I got my Mark III. Then after a few days of fiddling knobs, I sounded like I wanted to.

People criticize the Mk III for being fiddly, but heck, if you are very particular about the sound, that fiddlyness is exactly what you need!

One thing I wish Mesa would do is put their 5-band on knobs instead of sliders, they would be so much easier to dial in given the sensitivity they have.

 

[László]

One thing I wish Mesa would do is put their 5-band on knobs instead of sliders, they would be so much easier to dial in given the sensitivity they have.

You know what? I feel the same way! I've never enjoyed graphic EQs, the sliders are never smooth enough to make precise adjustments. That's true even of API's graphic EQ, and other more expensive studio gear (and synths) that have small slider adjustments.

So yeah, a twist pot, or alternatively a smooth 100mm fader is preferable.

Give me a good parametric EQ, and I'm a much happier camper, however. It kinda surprises me that there aren't amps with parametric EQs. Some of the amps on the market are certainly expensive enough to warrant the extra cost.

 

[Black Plaid]

You know what? I feel the same way! I've never enjoyed graphic EQs, the sliders are never smooth enough to make precise adjustments. That's true even of API's graphic EQ, and other more expensive studio gear (and synths) that have small slider adjustments.

So yeah, a twist pot, or alternatively a smooth 100mm fader is preferable.

Give me a good parametric EQ, and I'm a much happier camper, however. It kinda surprises me that there aren't amps with parametric EQs. Some of the amps on the market are certainly expensive enough to warrant the extra cost.

I 100% agree. Heck, I've been looking for a good parametric EQ pedal, they are thin on the ground, I tell ya.

I think the problem is, while you and I *get* them, most guitarists don't. They even dumbed down the post gain eq on a lot of amps to the 'contour' knob.

 

[László]

I 100% agree. Heck, I've been looking for a good parametric EQ pedal, they are thin on the ground, I tell ya.

I think the problem is, while you and I *get* them, most guitarists don't. They even dumbed down the post gain eq on a lot of amps to the 'contour' knob.

I've been using Pettyjohn's Filter EQ pedal, that's a semi-parametric, but they don't seem to be making it any more. So you must be right - people just don't get it.

 

[Black Plaid]

I've been using Pettyjohn's Filter EQ pedal, that's a semi-parametric, but they don't seem to be making it any more. So you must be right - people just don't get it.

Yeah, think about it, a 3 band parametric eq is going to be 9 knobs on a pedal. Most are just going to nope out of that.