Thinking of going from rectoverb 25 to Archon 25.

[Spiralizer]

Any thoughts for a new guy? I just recently got the rectoverb 25 and it's great but I'm tired of fighting with Mesa's complicated layout to get the sound I want.

I'm heavily considering going with the Archon 25. I play mostly rock/metal with some classic stuff from time to time.

My question for Archon owners: is the amp tight in the way that the rectoverb is loose? I'm after a more articulate tightness on the gain side than the recto wants to give me.

Also, do the tubes make much difference? The ROV25 has EL84's and I'm not sure how they compare to the 5881's.

 

[alantig]

Can't speak to the tubes - I've got the Archon 100 head.

It's been very easy to dial in tones for me, much simpler than my Mark IV. There are a wide range of tones in the amp - you can get classic rock type sounds and pretty thick metal. The clean channel is spectacular, and there's even some nice grind there if you dial the gain way up.

This is on my Archon - the lead part is dirty channel, \m/ pickup in the bridge.

Http://soundcloud/alantig/parasite

 

[bodia]

I previously owned an Archon 25 combo along with a Mark V 90w head. I thought I had two similar sounding amps (meaning Modern sounding), and wanted a bit of diversity so I moved the Archon and got an HXDA (which I love). Soon after I realized that I really missed the Archon. I sold the Mark V to a fellow forum member and got an Archon 50w head. I enjoyed the Mark V, but as you pointed out, the Mesa was just too many dials and switches for me. The Archon is "stupid" simple to get a tone you like. Plus, the cleans are glorious. However, I would say that I like the 50w version better than I did the 25w. Just something to consider. Elvis has a couple of threads on here about his move to the Archon as well. Really good reading. Tons of experience, and a lot of good info in those threads. Dreamtheaterrules has a lot of good input too. Plus, he's got my Mesa, and loves it. YMMV.

Good luck!

 

[Spiralizer]

Good info! Thank you both. I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake getting rid of the Mesa. Seems everyone holds the Archons in high regard.

 

[bodia]

Good info! Thank you both. I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake getting rid of the Mesa. Seems everyone holds the Archons in high regard.

Anytime. I don't regret moving the MkV for the Archon at all! Having said that, I'd really like to check out a JP-2C. I do know this; I wouldn't get rid of the Archon to make room for it. The Archon is a keeper for the long haul.

 

[alantig]

What Bodia said. I'm almost definitely moving the Mark IV this year. I'm sure there will be some point I miss it, but it's getting no love right now. Only thing that might derail that is if I suddenly start playing out - but that seems like the perfect reason to get a second Archon!!!

 

[11top]

I'm in the minority I guess. I have an Archon 100, and while the clean channel is incredible, I'm not crazy about the gain channel. It's harsh/brittle to my ears. I like my custom 50 head much more. I find I never play through my Archon since I spend more time on the gain side, and then it's my custom 50.

 

[andross182]

Are you my twin? I kid I kid but I own a rectoverb 25 head, a roadster and an archon and the mesas have literally collected dust since I got the archon...I can't sing it's praises enough! Plus I know exactly what you mean about mesas, but the archon is quite simple to get amazing tone.

 

[László]

I like lots of controls on an amp as well as I like simpler controls, but I like the Archon's cleans a lot. I go back and forth on whether I could live with a high gain amp like the Archon, though.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I don't have an Archon. Yet. But I won't be dumping all my Mesa's when I get one. (I don't think! HAHAHAHA).

To OP, don't want to insult you if you are and advanced Mesa user, but myself, Elvis, Bodia and some other guys can certainly offer some help with dialing the Mesa, so you at least know for sure before you flip it. I LOVE my Mini Rec, but some say the combo sounds smaller by itself (and that would make sense, smaller cab). But I still find it very easy to dial in great tones on the Mesa. Not because I'm not picky, just because I read about it for several years before I started getting them.

I do use my Mini Rec with closed back cabs mostly, which is an advantage. What type tones are you going after? And, what kind of settings are you using? Then, some info about what gear you're using with it. I'll see if I can help.

Some guys don't like the Recto tone though. I REALLY DO! I've put my Mini Rec up for sale 4 times to fund other purchases (including the Mark V mentioned above) and every time I've pulled the ad. Now, hearing an Archon "might" change my mind. I love my Custom 50 but it's very different than the Marks or Rectos.

The Archon is a bigger glass/bigger iron amp than the Rectoverb 25, and a bigger cab. It "should" sound bigger.

 

[elvis]

I really like my Mini Rec, but had trouble with the Rectoverb 25 combo. The amp really sounds much better through a bigger closed cab or a couple of stacked closed cabs. I would certainly try the RV25 on top of a Thiele to see if you can get some more thump out of it, but the EL84s have a mid-focus, not much capability with the lows. The amp really does have great mid grind, though.

I had a similar issue with the Archon 25, in that the cab is the limiting factor. Through a recto 2x12 it is a whole different amp. I think you can probably get wider frequency response, especially in the lows out of the Archon as it has 5881 tubes, which are essentially lower-power 6L6.

If I were looking to replace a RV25, I'd go Mini Rec or 25/50W Archon head and a better cab. The combos are just too mid-focused.

I still love my Archon 100. Gigged with it Saturday for the first time (finally!) and it slayed.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

OP, what do you mean by "Mesa's complicated layout?" Are you referring to the interaction of the tone controls?

That amp shouldn't be loose if you have the bass turned down where it should be. My Mini Rec has a surprising amount of bass through 2 1x12s stacked, in Vintage mode with the bass knob at 9:00-10:00. In fact, I don't know how much gain you want but try this.
Gain- 1:00
Treble - 1:00
Mid-10:30
Bass 9:00
Presence to taste... try noon.
Volume 11:00

With a closed back speaker or better yet two of them, that's pretty ripping tone in my setup.

If you're using the Modern channel though, it kicks in more lows and with the gain anywhere above 11:00, the bass needs to be 9:00 or lower and that's with closed back cabs.

 

[elvis]

+1, not sure what is complicated about that amp. Some of the other Mesa amps are much more complicated.

One big mistake people make is running the Mesa 25W amps at bedroom volumes. They always sound mushy then. You have to turn them up to get the grind. IMO the Shiva and the Archon have way better low-volume tones.

 

[bodia]

IMO the Shiva and the Archon have way better low-volume tones.

+1 on that!

 

[Spiralizer]

I don't have an Archon. Yet. But I won't be dumping all my Mesa's when I get one. (I don't think! HAHAHAHA).

To OP, don't want to insult you if you are and advanced Mesa user, but myself, Elvis, Bodia and some other guys can certainly offer some help with dialing the Mesa, so you at least know for sure before you flip it. I LOVE my Mini Rec, but some say the combo sounds smaller by itself (and that would make sense, smaller cab). But I still find it very easy to dial in great tones on the Mesa. Not because I'm not picky, just because I read about it for several years before I started getting them.

I do use my Mini Rec with closed back cabs mostly, which is an advantage. What type tones are you going after? And, what kind of settings are you using? Then, some info about what gear you're using with it. I'll see if I can help.

Some guys don't like the Recto tone though. I REALLY DO! I've put my Mini Rec up for sale 4 times to fund other purchases (including the Mark V mentioned above) and every time I've pulled the ad. Now, hearing an Archon "might" change my mind. I love my Custom 50 but it's very different than the Marks or Rectos.

The Archon is a bigger glass/bigger iron amp than the Rectoverb 25, and a bigger cab. It "should" sound bigger.

Thanks for the offer to help! I can dial in a really good sound but I have to really sit with it to change between different tones. It's not intuitive at all which I hear is common for Boogie. It's not the end of the world but I find it very inconvenient.
I was considering the Archon 25 because I heard it was very simple and from what I can tell, sounds great

 

[Spiralizer]

OP, what do you mean by "Mesa's complicated layout?" Are you referring to the interaction of the tone controls?

That amp shouldn't be loose if you have the bass turned down where it should be. My Mini Rec has a surprising amount of bass through 2 1x12s stacked, in Vintage mode with the bass knob at 9:00-10:00. In fact, I don't know how much gain you want but try this.
Gain- 1:00
Treble - 1:00
Mid-10:30
Bass 9:00
Presence to taste... try noon.
Volume 11:00

With a closed back speaker or better yet two of them, that's pretty ripping tone in my setup.

If you're using the Modern channel though, it kicks in more lows and with the gain anywhere above 11:00, the bass needs to be 9:00 or lower and that's with closed back cabs.

Thanks, I'll try that The amp simply has a more open sound than I'm looking for...may be the fault of the cab, the el84's, bad settings, bad player (!)
Like I said, I do really like the amp and it's my first "mid-high end" amp. I guess I was just looking for something else tone-wise.

 

[Spiralizer]

+1, not sure what is complicated about that amp. Some of the other Mesa amps are much more complicated.

One big mistake people make is running the Mesa 25W amps at bedroom volumes. They always sound mushy then. You have to turn them up to get the grind. IMO the Shiva and the Archon have way better low-volume tones.

Maybe complicated is the wrong word. Inconvenient may be better. I've grown up with amps that all respond the same to eq settings and then the ROV25 comes along and throws that simplicity out the window. It's not a bad thing that it has interactive controls but I guess I just want something simpler.

Bedroom levels is another big problem for me and the ROV25. I have a new baby and loudness is just not an option all the time. That may be my biggest problem with it. I do play with a drummer only from time to time but only on occasion.

Is there much difference volume wise between the Archon 25 and 50 watt?

 

[Spiralizer]

Since I'm being a total rookie here, can any of you Archon 25 owners tell me if it will be possible to hook up my 1x12 cab (8 ohms) to the amp and have it work as an extension cab? Or is it set up where that won't work because the internal speaker is 16 ohms?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

This image:

...implies that the internal speaker is 16 ohm, but they might not all come like that.

 

[Spiralizer]

This image:

...implies that the internal speaker is 16 ohm, but they might not all come like that.

That is the image that confused me. It's set to 8 ohms but clearly says Internal Speaker 16 ohms. Wha?