The Wattage Conundrum - My Take

[aristotle]

Technically, a Big A hit the nail on the head. The other factor for me is that I play in under- budgeted bands with complete sh*t for PA. I'm so sick and tired of old Peavey boards, amps, and speakers I could throw up! So, I know that MY gear will make me sound way better than if I were thru FOH. Now, you might say that I could solve this problem by buying some decent gear and quit complaining. Valid point. But then I'd own the PA and would have more stake than just the guitarist that also sings some backup. I'm not managing or running another band, thank you. /rant

Back to topic...on one hand, I control my tone, and on the other, I get to keep my amp in its sweet spot by playing loud enough to project. Plus, we all have to pay more attention throughout the gig, adjusting our personal volume for the sake of the mix. Keeps us on our toes.

Sounds like we're in similar situations. Our PA is actually quite nice though. It's a Mackie 24 channel board with 4 separate monitor mixes available. We use powered QSC mains, subs and monitors, and they sound way better than the typical club system, even at the larger "A-list" venues around here. Still though, there's a low-fi quality to how guitars sound through them in my opinion. I've never figured out why, but I haven't played around with it all that much either. Maybe if we used separate drivers for the guitars it might be better...who knows....

 

[pac90]

That Pedal Show – Amps: How Many Watts Do You Need?

 

[László]

That Pedal Show – Amps: How Many Watts Do You Need?

So this is exactly what I've been talking about, and it's great that you posted this.

The thing is, how much headroom and punch do you want from your amp (which does come through live or in a recording)? We all have different needs and desires with respect to that. And we all use pedals differently.

One thing that they talk about is using an amp as a clean pedal platform, but there's another use that they aren't really discussing much, and that is having the pedal drive the input section of the amp just a bit. In other words, having the pedal interact with the input stage of the amp, but not overdrive it heavily.

And that is going to do different things for different amps.

One other thing I appreciated that they mention is that the power drives the transformers in various ways, and that different speaker systems will present a different load to the amp.

For these things, I prefer a bit more power than the average bedroom amp. The 10 Watt amp in the video simply compresses far too readily for my taste - it sounds, to my ears, "small."

Of course, you can make it sound bigger in mixing, etc. But for now, let's keep it to the point.

The AC30 and Lone Star in that video sound like what I want to hear. However, everyone's tastes are different. So, YMMV.

 

[László]

In connection with a thread on miking up cabs, I found a nice older (1997) Mix interview with the great engineer Michael Wagener, who's known for his wonderful work recording guitars. I've kind of always liked his advice, read this a long time ago, and found it worthwhile. He has a few important points to make on choosing amps and cabs, and their power requirements for getting good recorded tone that we haven't yet touched on here; here it is quoted:

"MICHAEL WAGENER
Since the late ’70s, Michael Wagener has earned a reputation asone of the masters of great-sounding rock recordings. Wagener, who hasamassed more than 100 album credits, may be well-known for his workproducing, engineering and/or mixing aggressive hard rock projects likeSkid Row, Extreme, Ozzy Osbourne, Metallica, Megadeth and Alice Cooper,but he also has credits that range from Janet Jackson and Queen to ThePlasmatics. Wagener is currently producing a video called How to ReallyRecord Guitar.

“There is an important relationship between amp output and speaker wattage. I subscribe to the theory that you have to push air toget your point across. That means I will always try to use an amp with more power reserves than the RMS wattage of the speaker cab. Of courseyou have to be careful not to blow the cab to pieces. A tube amp ofabout 100 watts can have peaks around 250 watts, so make sure yourcabinet can stand that occasional peak. Also, if you use a tube amp,that peak is liable to come smoother than or not as sudden as you wouldget from a transistor power amp. A tube power amp will probably giveyou a fatter, saturated sound, whereas a transistor amp will be cleanerwith a bit of a harder attack.

“Another very important part of the power amp is the output transformer. The output transformer can make or break the sound of anamplifier. Once, I had to exchange a blown output transformer of agreat-sounding Marshall 100-watt top. I never got the original soundback.

“The distortion doesn’t always have to be generated inthe preamp. Sometimes it’s better to keep the preamp sectionfairly clean and get the distortion out of the power amp or thespeaker. Speaker distortion is the smoothest distortion you can get.Unfortunately, because of the high volume, it also involves having avery good isolated studio, so the neighbors won’t get distorted as well.

“When you pick a speaker cabinet, there are a few considerations to be made. What kind of sound do you want to achieve?Are you looking for a clean sound or a distorted sound? Is theinstrument going to be in the front or the back of the mix? Is it going to be doubled? Are you playing single notes or chords or both? How powerful is your amp? Can your speaker cabinet withstand the power output from the amp? Is your speaker cabinet too ‘big’ for the amp, so it won’t push enough air? For example, a 4x30-wattcab would be a great, powerful cab for a 100-watt amp if you are looking for a fat, distorted sound. If you are going for a cleaner sound, you might want to try a 4x75-watt cabinet on the same amp. Makesure that the impedance of the cabinet and the amp match."

 

[László]

You know, in addition to wattage, I did forget one thing. It's really much better if your amp goes to eleven...

 

[dkilpatrick]

How long do you typically let the tubes in your amp warm up before playing? I find that my amps start to hit their sweet spot after about 45 min. Just curious.
I have also been experimenting with my Lonestar Special's wattage selection 5/15/30. I typically do most of my playing after the wife and kiddos have gone to bed so I don't crank the amp.
I was just using the 5 watt setting, which sounded fine in the room. Then I decided to mic the amp and play while hearing it back through my monitors.
Once I switched to the full 30 watts, WOW it sounded more open and I could hear more harmonics. I assume this would be because now I was hearing what I would if my head was right next to the speaker.
It made a noticeable difference even at a low practice volume.

 

[László]

I usually just warm them up a couple of minutes before switching the amp from standby to "on", and I often start recording sessions as soon as they're on, because that's just how my work goes.

I'm not noticing much change after the tubes warm up for longer, for me the improvement in tone comes from my hands warming up to the guitar and hitting a playing sweet spot. But maybe there's some effect from the tubes warming up that add to that feeling?

Interesting post and I want to think about that one and experiment a little bit.

 

[dkilpatrick]

I usually just warm them up a couple of minutes before switching the amp from standby to "on", and I often start recording sessions as soon as they're on, because that's just how my work goes.

I'm not noticing much change after the tubes warm up for longer, for me the improvement in tone comes from my hands warming up to the guitar and hitting a playing sweet spot. But maybe there's some effect from the tubes warming up that add to that feeling?

Interesting post and I want to think about that one and experiment a little bit.

Maybe that's just how long it takes my hands to warm up and i'm associating it with some outside source like the tubes.
I often will break for an hour or two between playing and leave the amp powered on in standby and the later sessions always sound better to me.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I can't speak to guitar amps yet (not consistent enough in my playing to eliminate that as a variable), but 45 minutes sounds about right in terms of warming up from my experience in listening to music through tube headphone and speaker amplifiers.

<expletive deleted>, they sound sweet after 1/2 an hour to an hour or so!

 

[dkilpatrick]

I can't speak to guitar amps yet (not consistent enough in my playing to eliminate that as a variable), but 45 minutes sounds about right in terms of warming up from my experience in listening to music through tube headphone and speaker amplifiers.

<expletive deleted>, they sound sweet after 1/2 an hour to an hour or so!

right?