The Recipe: Right Amp For The Right Guitar For The Song...

[László]

Calling all freaks...

Due to circumstances beyond my control (understatement!) I went a few weeks without playing, and getting back to it the other day, I started thinking. Always dangerous, that thinking business. But I started thinking about how different my amps sound from one another -- something that seems clearer after a break in the action -- and how different my guitars sound from one another, and how to pick which for what for whatever tune I'm working on.

Now, I don't do covers. So what someone else did on a particular tune isn't very important to me. I'm not trying to nail down a tone - it's more a matter of feeling my way in the dark, and putting a tone to use the way I would with a synth sound. One tries a few things, and then decides, right?

And even though I've gone on record many times that I can (and have!) do everything I do with only one guitar and one amp, dagnab it, I can't escape the realization that it's good to have more than one! Sculpting air in a customized way is never a bad thing.

I don't think of it as "well I need a clean tone for this, and a dirty tone for that." Because I live in that area between clean and dirty tones, maybe that's why. I think more in terms of, "this needs some harsher grit, or that needs a warmer amp, or a greasy-buttery tone," or what-have-you.

I also like to blend and layer parts, and ideally, I want each part to sound a bit different. So I'll choose different guitars/amps for each part.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I think certain guitars match up better for certain parts with certain amps, and that can vary from song to song and need to need.

SECOND EDIT: It also occurs to me that you already know this, and this entire topic is the Department of Redundancy Department.

THIRD EDIT: What made me think of this was how uniquely good the McCarty sounds with the DG30, a guitar that's pretty similar to what Grissom plays, so no wonder they sound good together! Same with the HXDA and the Singlecut, etc. etc. etc. etc.

How do you guys go about it? Basically the same sound everywhere? Different sounds for different ideas? What? Inquiring minds who don't need to know, still want to know.

I throw it open to discussion. All's fair, no rules, no right, no wrong. This is creative stuff, not gospel.

 

[veinbuster]

Very interesting question. I don't really think about it much, but I have noticed that I often pick a guitar and amp for the sound I feel like when I walk into the music room. The amps in the room are a Boogie Mark III set to bluesy (yes, I know that means different things to everyone - to me enough gain to give it character, but cleanish by most standards) and a Boogie Mark V with one channel very clean, one gainy but not very distorted, one border line piercing.

I've had the Mark III for almost 30 years so it is pretty much the baseline of 'my' sound. If I'm just playing emotions, that is what I'll go to, most likely with the Les Paul, SC245 or a rosewood neck PRS.
I use the Mark V clean channel mostly to play acoustic or piezo through, at least until my Fishman makes it home.
The Mark V dirty channel is to get noisy - probably with the 3 pack of narrow fields, the Santana, or the Dirty 100
The Mark V extreme channel - special occasions, not really my thing but I feel compelled to explore that sound from time to time just so I know what to do with it.

And sometimes I just plug something into something and see what it makes me play.

 

[Tosca]

I applaud this logic as it can be used to justify owning many more guitars and amplifiers to achieve those unique combinations. Not that I would ever do such a thing.

 

[László]

I applaud this logic as it can be used to justify owning many more guitars and amplifiers to achieve those unique combinations. Not that I would ever do such a thing.

Oh, me either.

 

[toothace]

Depends on the mood...Some days the mood is straight into the Archon lead channel. The next day might be the clean channel through the KTR or Burnley. And then some days it's the lead channel WITH the KTR or Burnley. They all sound great! and different!

 

[László]

Depends on the mood...Some days the mood is straight into the Archon lead channel. The next day might be the clean channel through the KTR or Burnley. And then some days it's the lead channel WITH the KTR or Burnley. They all sound great! and different!

And both are great pedals!

I've had the Burnley, and got my son a KTR that he's currently touring with - they're in the U.K. next month - and he really likes it.

The Burnley was sssssmokin' with my DG30 when I was between HXDAs. I think it's a superb overdrive pedal, does a lot of things well.

 

[vchizzle]

Well, for my purposes in the band, it's too big of a for multiple amps. I usually bring 2 guitars but we always are playing multi band shows, so one is usually a backup. Have most of my guitars set up so I can pull off most of what I need to do on any given song. There are certain guitars I prefer for certain songs, but there's usually not a lot of time for me to make changes mid set. You know I use the Archon, so I'm 2 channel obviously. My amp settings mostly stay the same all the time. I may adjust the treble a bit depending on the room.
I use an Xotic AC Booster and EP Booster to enhance or give me in between tones, especially in situations where I can't work my volume knobs and pickup settings when both hands are too busy. I do use the guitar's controls to shape/alter my sound a good amount. When writing, I have a pretty good handle on what sounds I want for specific parts and where the controls on the guitar need to be for the tone I want to achieve.

At home I have a 2nd amp to plug into if I'm wanting something different that day. A lot of times at home I'll just grab a guitar and and start noodling. I tend to get ideas be it musical on tonal in my head that I want to hear, and I'll go after that and just experiment, maybe throw a pedal or 2 on and see what happens. Or if I'm working on something band specific, I go to my base tone and work on what I need to work on. I find effects inspirational for new ideas a good deal of the time. I'll bring up a new delay setting on my Strymon or modulation on my Eventide and it'll spark a new idea many times. I don't play with those effects on most of the time, just use for part specific sounds I guess.

I might be a little more experimental if I didn't need certain core sounds for the band? Maybe, maybe not...because I really love those core tones I use! Hard to say. I know when I start screwing around at home with new tones or effects, I generally lose half a day. Those are some of my most rewarding times.

 

[László]

Well, for my purposes in the band, it's too big of a for multiple amps. I usually bring 2 guitars but we always are playing multi band shows, so one is usually a backup. Have most of my guitars set up so I can pull off most of what I need to do on any given song. There are certain guitars I prefer for certain songs, but there's usually not a lot of time for me to make changes mid set. You know I use the Archon, so I'm 2 channel obviously. My amp settings mostly stay the same all the time. I may adjust the treble a bit depending on the room.
I use an Xotic AC Booster and EP Booster to enhance or give me in between tones, especially in situations where I can't work my volume knobs and pickup settings when both hands are too busy. I do use the guitar's controls to shape/alter my sound a good amount. When writing, I have a pretty good handle on what sounds I want for specific parts and where the controls on the guitar need to be for the tone I want to achieve.

At home I have a 2nd amp to plug into if I'm wanting something different that day. A lot of times at home I'll just grab a guitar and and start noodling. I tend to get ideas be it musical on tonal in my head that I want to hear, and I'll go after that and just experiment, maybe throw a pedal or 2 on and see what happens. Or if I'm working on something band specific, I go to my base tone and work on what I need to work on. I find effects inspirational for new ideas a good deal of the time. I'll bring up a new delay setting on my Strymon or modulation on my Eventide and it'll spark a new idea many times. I don't play with those effects on most of the time, just use for part specific sounds I guess.

I might be a little more experimental if I didn't need certain core sounds for the band? Maybe, maybe not...because I really love those core tones I use! Hard to say. I know when I start screwing around at home with new tones or effects, I generally lose half a day. Those are some of my most rewarding times.

I think it's more difficult to mess around with multiple amps in a live setting unless you have roadies and a big stage! That's for sure.

Sounds to me like the boost pedals really help you get alternate tones. Vaughn, your posts that you stopped using overdrives and got your tones with boost pedals convinced me to try that. When I took the overdrive off my board, I took your advice and like the results quite a lot.

I always preferred the amp's drive to a pedal anyway, and the boosts are a great solution. So that was a great tip, and I thank you for it!

 

[László]

Today I had the chance to get another 40 minutes of playing in before the arm and hand started getting too sore to continue.

The HXDA absolutely loves my McCarty and The Hammer Of The Gods (McCarty Singlecut), in any pickup position or coil split in the case of the McCarty. These guitars are simply a match made in heaven for it. Not that the amp doesn't sound great with the CU24 30th or 20th Anni PS, but we're talking what sounds like the best match to my ear here, so...

The DG slays with the 20th Anni of PS guitar and, surprisingly (to me), I prefer the DG to the HXDA with the CU24 30th. I say I'm a bit surprised, because the 30th is such a great rock and roll guitar. But it seems to work magic with the DG30, an amp I think of as more of a "roots" amp. It's possible that the Hammer and McCarty have spoiled me for anything different with the HXDA.

I like the McCarty on the coil splits with the Mesa's clean channel; I like the 20th Anni of PS guitar with it as well; and the CU24 is awesome with the OD channel. The Hammer Of The Gods sounds so much better with the HXDA and DG30 (when the DG is overdriven) that I tend to stick with the PRS amps with it. Not that the Hammer sounds bad with the Mesa, but you miss the guitar's sweetness potential - just a case of not using a Hammer to drive a screw.

With the HXDA, I can't really kick on much of a boost with The Hammer; it's too much. The guitar has plenty of oomph on its own. But it is wonderful to boost the guitar with the McCarty. There's a nice balance on tap.

Again, probably splitting hairs here, but isn't that what we do?

 

[László]

I just re-read my posts in this thread, and even though I felt a certain way about all of my guitars and amps two weeks ago, I'm not sure I'd make the same matchup choices today, and certainly not with every song.

As I pointed out in a more recent thread, the guitars all sound great with the amps, and there are things about every single combination I really like.

So please ignore my idle ramblings.

I really have no idea why, but I change my mind a lot.

Meaning: On any given day, at any given moment, I am full of crap!

Oh yeah, might as well ignore this post, too.

 

[veinbuster]

I just re-read my posts in this thread, and even though I felt a certain way about all of my guitars and amps two weeks ago, I'm not sure I'd make the same matchup choices today, and certainly not with every song.

That's just part of the package. My ears aren't the same every day, nor is how I want things to sound.
And its a great excuse to have spare guitars and amps.

 

[László]

And its a great excuse to have spare guitars and amps.

I love this! Moral support and enablement combined into a single sentence.

Thank you. Man hug.

 

[Tele295]

For studio work, it's a lot of trial & error - mixing and matching until you find that magic OMG tone. Sometimes crazy combinations work.

Live, it's a different story. Certain guitars will behave better with certain amps - usually it's a headroom thing. I have one amp for my Tele that's golden, but it mushes out with humbuckers so I need something with more headroom for that kind of guitar.

 

[László]

Live, it's a different story.

This is why i only play when I'm dead.

 

[squirrel211]

I have 2 amps that get basically the same level of dirt, but one is solid state rectified with 2xEL34's, and the other is tube rectified with 4x6V6's. The EL amp has that late 60's British feel, and the 6V6 is 2 channels where one is similar to a Deluxe Reverb and the other channel, depending on the settings, is similar to a 5E3-to-6G6b. Both amps are capable of a wide variety of tones, and my struggle is how is wish to set each one for any given show. I wish I had 2 of each amp.

My strat sounds like a strat, and I use it for 2 songs in particular that just need that sound. Everything else is my Custom 24.

I will use different settings/amps for the same song, depending how everything sounds and feels, from show to show. I like to stay away from pedal drive, but every once in a while the amps don't sound normal (I attribute it to electricity issues) and I'll abort my mission to use amp drive.

My last piece of particular-ness is that I much prefer clean tones with the guitar volume all the way up. There is a change in the attack and body that I get when I roll the volume down to clean up the amp that just messes with me. I much prefer to have an amp set up to be on the edge of clean with the guitar volume on 10.

 

[László]

My last piece of particular-ness is that I much prefer clean tones with the guitar volume all the way up. There is a change in the attack and body that I get when I roll the volume down to clean up the amp that just messes with me.

Here's how I've managed to stumble into a solution of that problem, because you're right of course, a passive pickup does tend to lose some attack and body when rolled down.

That was the one thing that bugged me for years, but I like to be able to control my amp from the guitar.

Step One. A Different Mindset Setting Up.

One of the talented session players I use on ads showed me the trick of setting up an amp quite a few years ago: if you set the amp's gain, tone, etc. with the guitar volume around 5-6, it'll sound good with the volume rolled down, and you can control the gain, much of the thickness, and other attributes with the guitar's volume and tone controls. I usually set up the amp with the guitar's tone controls around 7-8, so I have a little room to make the guitar brighter if needed, or lots of room to warm it up for other sounds.

It works!

Then I saw players like Grissom (and many others) setting up amps this way. I'm convinced this is the way to go, and is the cure to a lot of guitar ills. But wait, there's more...

Step Two. A high quality, dedicated buffer.

For years I used an Axess buffer that sounded great, but was a little bit bright in the high end, so I was always searching out a buffer that would preserve the guitar's high frequency signal, but with better fidelity. I'm sure there are other buffers that do this, but I stumbled on the Suhr buffer, and it sounds great. The buffer on my board is the little square black box on the upper row next to the wah.

The bonus of a buffer is that it preserves your tone for long cable runs from pedalboard to amp.

The usual rule of thumb with unbalanced cables is that you get noticeable tone loss at 20 feet. Well, that may be true of hi fi equipment, but with the tiny signal from a guitar pickup, you get it sooner. Plug your guitar into a three foot cable and then your 20 foot cable, and you will hear a significant difference in that signal's high frequency and low frequency content.

Every player should try this experiment once, if only to understand the issue!

While a buffer can't do much about cable capacitance going from guitar to pedalboard, it can really help once the signal hits the board.

Step Three. A Magic Box.

This is where luck came in for me. I stumbled onto a piece of gear that has an "it" factor.

My magic box is the Suhr KokoBoost. I don't actually use it to boost the signal all that often, though it's great for that, and has an alternate foot switchable mid-boost setting on top of everything. But set for unity gain, early in my signal chain (mine comes right after the buffer box), it manages to make everything sound high fidelity again when the volume control is rolled down.

I don't know how they do this; all I know is that this box does it and so I click it on if I find myself missing desirable attack and body when the guitar is rolled off (and again, this depends partly on how I set up my amp, see below). This works for me whether clean or dirty, it's just a great sounding box. This one is the black pedal on the lower row next to the wah.

Step Four. A High Quality Compressor.

When I don't use my magical KokoBoost, I find that a really high quality compressor is another thing that works, especially clean. Mu board has the Suhr Koji Comp, a compressor that sounds about as good as a good studio compressor, at least within the limited signal range of an electric guitar. A good compressor will raise the level of softer sounds, and thus preserve or enhance frequency balance. The Koji takes it a step further by adding a switchable EQ emphasis, and I use it to brighten up the signal and tame transients. It's a beautiful sounding little box. It's the gold colored one on my board.

Other notes:

I use the KokoBoost and Koji independently, I don't stack them. I think the Koko has a bit of its own compression, and the two stacked are a bit much for me, but I wouldn't discourage someone from stacking them for even more of what they do.

In the studio, I have a three amp setup because once I've got the guitar plugged in, and a set of headphones on, with all the cables and junk, I don't want to have to get up, take the cans and guitar off, and plug/unplug cables to switch to a different amp for another track (I like to layer different amps for a bigger sound).

So I switch between the amps with a Lehle 1 at 3 SGoS (The blue 3-button pedal on the board). It doesn't have any tone suck that I can hear, and it doesn't make any noise. The switching between amps is 100% silent, no pops or other unwanted artifacts (I did have some DC offset with one of the amps, something that is not uncommon, and it can cause switching pops and clicks; I solved it with a very inexpensive, passive and sonically transparent Lehle DC Filter that goes between the pedalboard and that particular amp).

I used Van den Hul interconnects between the pedals. These were bought for their very low capacitance, and noise rejection. The sound is absolutely great. Their only drawback is that they're stiff. I also decided to go with the heavy duty soldered plugs with big strain reliefs, instead of the small ones that would take up less space on the board, simply for the sake of strength and problem prevention during sessions. I had very good luck with the PRS/VanDamme interconnects between pedals, but I needed custom lengths.

There are no hums and buzzes on my board from ground loops, either. Power is from a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 4x4. All the other cables to and from guitar and amps are the PRS/VanDamme cables.

Here's the current setup:

 

[The Fight]

Les I love your setup, it's very clean and by the sound of it - it does what you want it to.

Ever since I got my Friedman amplifier I find that certain guitars and amps are a match made in heaven. For instance my SC trem with 57/08s just sounds super with the Friedman, very classic British sound. Also my Tremonti loaded with DAllen Powerage (acdc) pickups and my CE24 w/Bare Knuckle mules (both vintage style humbuckers) sound fantastic. It's so easy to get a great classic rock sound.

And since I have the awesome Splawn quickrod, which I particularly like playing more 80s/ to modern styles. Perfectly set up with my floyd cu24 w/59/09 pickups, I can just grab and play. Smooth, bright and dynamic, I love this combination the most.

It's interesting bcs with the Friedman set up all I wanna do is rock out and Mby play some cover tunes but with my Splawn/ cu24, I get into a writing mode. I feel so much more creative. I know all these things are tools but some guitars/ amps just have something special about them that one feels more particularly connected creatively.

Looking at you amp set up and the way you have all you nice amps makes me remember why exactly I bought my ampete 222. I've never even set it up or even tried it for that matter. This thread really makes me want to take a few days of vacation and really get into my rig and tie up some loose ends.

 

[veinbuster]

I've had a bit of a variation on this recently since my amps and all but one guitar have headed home, and I'm not there. All I have left is a little power PC speaker set and a tiny stack of pedals. It turns out that with a bit of patience you can get a tolerable sound without any amp, let alone the right amp. At least it serves as an interesting diversion in the evening.
The tools of the day were: HB piezo, Mesa V-Twin, Troubled Rooster, KTR - battery was dead on the Arctic Screamer.

 

[László]

I've had a bit of a variation on this recently since my amps and all but one guitar have headed home, and I'm not there. All I have left is a little power PC speaker set and a tiny stack of pedals. It turns out that with a bit of patience you can get a tolerable sound without any amp, let alone the right amp. At least it serves as an interesting diversion in the evening.
The tools of the day were: HB piezo, Mesa V-Twin, Troubled Rooster, KTR - battery was dead on the Arctic Screamer.

The V-Twin, with its preamp, is a fairly credible direct box, so there's that...you might consider trying a software amp modeler, the sound is probably more like an amp than just running pedals direct, though.

 

[László]

Looking at you amp set up and the way you have all you nice amps makes me remember why exactly I bought my ampete 222. I've never even set it up or even tried it for that matter. This thread really makes me want to take a few days of vacation and really get into my rig and tie up some loose ends.

Oh man, you HAVE to set that thing up! It's such a cool piece.